1. Forum
  2. >
  3. Topic: Latin
  4. >
  5. "In the evening the comrades …

"In the evening the comrades are drunk."

Translation:Vesperi contubernales ebrii sunt.

October 11, 2019

9 Comments


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Corey288251

Shouldn't there be a "In the" or (in Latin)"in" or "ad" before Vesperi?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/PERCE_NEIGE

No, vesperi (dative) is already "in the evening", like "noctu/nocte" (ablative) is "in the night" as an adverb.

Ad usually (at least for us, beginners) means a physical move towards a direction.

Ad vesperum, would be "until/to the evening", because a mani ad vesperum = from the morning to the evening.

The thing that I don't get is why "vesperi" is dative, and "noctu/nocte" is ablative. Why it's not Vespere?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Moopish

Based on what Wiktionary says: 'the forms vespere and vesperī were both used to mean "in the evening".'

It also states that both can be the ablative and that it was treated as both a second declension and third declension at points. Maybe the use of vesperī as an ablative is a remnant of pre-Classical Latin? I think (if I remember correctly) the was used for the ablative singular (or at least at some point) for the third declension.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/JacquesFre5

Yes, indeed, I was also wondering. BTW Your posts are always most interesting.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/PauloChen2

The locative case, normally associated with cozy places, can be used with "vesper -eris or eri".

http://dcc.dickinson.edu/grammar/latin/2nd-declension-special-forms

and the locative for "vesper" is "vesperī".

Another alternative is the "ablative of time within which" (which does not require a preposition). For "vesper" the ablative can be various forms, among them, "vespere" and vesperī"

https://en.m.wiktionary.org/wiki/vesper#Declension

These are deep waters.

All in all, it's probably best just to learn "vespere" and "vesperī" as fixed expressions meaning "in the evening".


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/shimkelevine

In Latin, word order is much looser than in English, bcs the case endings will provide the info that word order indicates in English. So why won't DL accept Vesperi sunt contubernales ebrii. ?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/PauloMuffato

Idk, to me it sounds unusual to place to verb before the subject, it's like saying "in the evening they are the drunk comrades".


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Fantomius

Duolingo just marked this wrong for me:

Vesperi comitates ebrii sunt.

(2021-07-30)

Apparently, my mistake was using "comitates" instead of "contubernales". I thought those two words were almost interchangable, especially here.

But if "comitates" is wrong here, could someone explain why?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Moopish

It's comites not comitates. Try with comites and see it if accepts it, report if it rejects it.

Comitates is another word (nom. sing. comitas) which means politeness, kindness, etc.

Learn Latin in just 5 minutes a day. For free.