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"The young man wants to descend from the altar."

Translation:De ara iuvenis descendere vult.

November 1, 2019

31 Comments


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/susanTuck1

why isn't it de aram, as it involves movement? I had a feeling that meant using the accusative.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/SuzanneNussbaum

You see the "movement TOWARDS" requires accusative in the prepositions in and sub , but the "movement FROM" meaning, that has, as also do ā/ab and ē/ex , requires ablative .


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Georges353975

Yes but we had too : "sub ponte flumen fluit" and not "sub pontem"


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/SuzanneNussbaum

"The stream is flowing beneath the bridge": you can analyze this as sub + ablative indicating 'location.'

You can see sub + accusative in some situations, but it's by no means as common as in + accusative.

Maybe for "Let's go hide it under the bridge," you'd see sub + accusative. (The act of moving something under something else is being highlighted here.)


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Moopish

The preposition de takes the ablative much like a / ab does. The both imply motion away from a position vs movement towards a position (like ad or in with an accusative).


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Fantomius

Some prepositions take exactly one case, whereas others can take more than one.

Examples of prepositions which only take one case:

  • "a/ab", "de", and "cum" always take the ablative case.
  • "ad", "per", "ante", and "post" always take the accusative case.

Examples of prepositions which can take more than one case:

  • "in" and "sub" take the accusative case if movement into/towards something is involved; otherwise they take the ablative case.

(If I'm wrong here, someone please correct me.)

In this translation exercise, since "de" is used, we use the ablative case, as "de" always takes the ablative case in Latin.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/SuzanneNussbaum

For kun (which isn't a Latin word), I think you meant cum , "with."


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Fantomius

SuzanneNussbaum scribit:

For kun (which isn't a Latin word), I think you meant cum , "with."

Yes, thank you, you're right! (It's now corrected.)

(I was getting Latin mixed up with Esperanto, which happens at times, since they both share several similar features.)


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/SuzanneNussbaum

Thanks for the explanation, which makes perfect sense (I was assuming a slip of the keyboard!).


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Magnencjusz

Not so fast, Isaac.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/SuzanneNussbaum

Dē ārā dēscendere is nice; how about ex ārā dēscendere, as well?

Word-order shouldn't matter here: starting with the prepositional phrase, or with the subject, should be immaterial.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/vsevuskav

Ex means out of, which is not the meaning desired in this instance. Ab simply means away from, so ab ara descendere would suggest that perhaps the young man is beside an altar on top of a hill and wants to go down the hill, not off the altar.

bas sake buxbeze sabeDev


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/SuzanneNussbaum

But there are phrases like ex equō dēlābī (to fall off a horse, Livy), in which the person is surely no more 'inside' the horse than the putative young man is 'inside' the Duolingo altar.

There are some phrases in the OLD that are said to illustrate the meaning "from the surface of, from off" and "down from": including, in Ovid's Metamorphoses (1.261) "ex omnī nimbōs dēmittere caelō" (to send down clouds from the whole sky); note the combination of prep. ex even with a verb compounded with dē- . And Cicero has a sentence about someone hurling himself ex the highest wall ( sē ex altissimō praecipitāsse mūrō). Looking under ab, there do seem to be instances of ab + places with the meaning of "away from."


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/vsevuskav

Very well; I stand corrected. Go easy on me - I've never had a teacher and my best resource is a textbook that is over a hundred years old, so until I progress to the parts where it introduces additional meanings for words, I cannot expect to even know they exist.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/SuzanneNussbaum

No need for that! And I'm sure that little is better than "a textbook that is over a hundred years old," and I would advise you to keep working with that valuable resource!!


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/vsevuskav

Thankyou for that advice! I was beginning to wonder whether I should get rid of that book. :)


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/LanamTraho

Agreed, I tried “ab ara descendere” which wasn’t accepted either.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/ci4ic4
  • 2605

"iuvenis descendere de ara vult" - sounds rather better actually; it is not accepted.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Christine969755

Why would ab ara be wrong?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/SuzanneNussbaum

In the discussion above, both ab and ex are argued for.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/eddiedugga

What happened to subject - object - verb? Shouldn't the young man come before the altar from which he wishes to descend?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/SuzanneNussbaum

When an item in the sentence is moved, this places emphasis on that item. So, starting the sentence with the prepositional phrase emphasizes that "it's from the altar" that the young man wants to descend.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/eddiedugga

Thanks for the answer!


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/commediadellarte

so what is young man nominativ singular. I thought it is juvenus...


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/-Copernicus-

The nominative singular form is "iuvenis," which can also be spelled as "juvenis." Duo always uses "i" and not "j" however, and it probably does not accept "j" spellings.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/SuzanneNussbaum

Yes, it's important to realize that not every masculine noun in Latin will end in -us in the nominative singular (just as not every feminine noun will end in -a, either!).

"Young man" is a 3rd declension noun, with nominative ending -is in the singular, as Copernicus explains.

You would see it listed as: iuvenis, iuvenis , m., young man, from which you can tell that it belongs to the 3rd declension (since its genitive sing., the 2nd form listed, ends in -is).

Iuvenis laetus est . The young man is happy. Since it's a masculine nominative singular noun, notice that it is modified by an adjective that ends in -us.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/commediadellarte

thanks. I could have just opened my latin dictionary here beside me, but I felt duo made a mistake here, so didn't check my own possibility of being wrong first. mea culpa indeed ;)


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/SyedMoheel

What form is used for "ara" in here?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/SuzanneNussbaum

The preposition ab (which can also be written ā before a word that begins with a consonant) requires that its object be in the ablative case.

So, in the phrase ab ārā you see the ablative singular of āra, -ae, f., altar.

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