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https://www.duolingo.com/profile/SeanColombo

XP and Leaderboards updates

Hi everyone,

There have been a ton of questions and discussion about XP, especially how it relates to Leaderboards, so we figured it would be worth popping in to clarify.

First of all, sometimes there are questions on why we even care about Leaderboards. I’ll tell you. We’ve observed that learners who are engaged in Leaderboards are spending significantly more time on task, studying with more frequency and, as a result, displaying better results in their target language. Much better results. There are a few caveats here: one is that Leaderboards doesn't work for everyone. Some people actively dislike interpersonal competition and choose to turn them off. We hear you, and rest assured we are exploring other experiences that might be more motivational for these sorts of learners.

And then there are XP. Obviously there are some "bad actors" who are intentionally cheating on Leaderboards, which makes it less enjoyable for everyone. Additionally, there are some well-intentioned users who have found that certain actions can get them more XP even if those actions aren't great for learning. We are addressing both of these groups, but in very different ways.

Cheating/bots/scripts

As clearly stated in our guidelines, this isn't allowed and we will deactivate your account if we see you do it. So don't ;) We’ve caught some people already, and are working on creating even better systems for automated detection of this behavior. We also have fixes in the works that will remove the most common exploits without impacting any functionality for normal users.

Gaming the system

These users are often well intentioned, and we aren't going to ban people for this. The problem here lies more with the tuning of some Duolingo features than with the users (although: if you're farming XP in a way that's not great for your learning, I'd encourage you to reconsider). We always wanted XP to be a good motivator... people just didn't care as much about it before Leaderboards, so we're starting to see the places where our XP rewards are imbalanced and thus encouraging activities that aren't optimal for learning. We are carefully testing & iterating on this because we believe that it's important for XP to be balanced better for all users, and appreciate your patience as we do this. Here are some things we've done along those lines:

  • Repeated practice of the same Stories is getting nerfed XP (experiment running now).
  • Modifying how repeated Stories practice works, so that you can actually learn more when you're going back and practicing the same Story (experiments coming soon).

We've also listened to your feedback about Skill practice:

  • We have reduced XP for repeated skill-practice on iOS. Results show that affected users will spend the same amount of time, or slightly more, in-app, but now working on more useful endeavors, which is great!
  • Skill practice XP nerfing is currently in experiments on both Android and Web
  • Some people use repeated Skill Practice legitimately but they have shared thoughts on how to make them better. We’re actively developing some experiments around that.
Future plans
  • Experimenting with changing the amount of XP to better reflect the difficulty of lessons in higher Crown levels.
  • We want to make it easier to disable Leaderboards without disabling Social profile. It’s actually harder to make a clear UI for this than you'd think, but we’re on it.

Hopefully this post will address some of the questions you have about what is going on with XP, and again, thank you for your patience as we iterate on XP balance.

coach duo

November 15, 2019

794 Comments


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/DiegoDutra

Sean, thank you very much for the clarifications.

This week, one of my best students told me:

"Diego, I can't win in the leagues anymore, there are people who score 5,000 XP points in one day, it's amazing!"

Then I researched the user's performance and this is the result:

Source: duome.me - 24 XP every 1 minute - Stories

Dear Team, you really need to fix the rewards of XP from the Stories.

Repetition is a key factor in language learning, I've always been aware of that. And yes, the students should repeat the lessons until they're fully convinced that they've learned the lesson. But since we have a league, XP need to be well-balanced to not have unfair competition.

We look forward to the changes.

And thank you very much for providing us this wonderful tool: Duolingo <3

Happy learning!

EDIT: The engineers have fixed that. Little by little the users are receiving the update. Thanks, Duolingo Team! <3

November 15, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Thomas.Heiss

@DiegoDutra

Quote: 24 XP every 1 minute - Stories

One minute does not sound too bad if it would be used for "timed practice" (+bonus) instead of stories practice.

I have seen RAW data from one to two/three user(s) who manage to record 24 or 36-38XP each (one) second with a max 2-3 second delay between event recordings.

Well, this is really ridiculous...

November 15, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/duonks

2-3 sec delays are usually keyboard scripts... report them and they’ll be taken care of :-) P.s. I’ve also seen 50 and 100 XP within seconds for hours at a time

November 15, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/prisonmike420

People keep abusing stories, it still happens in my league at the moment. However. There is a script going around, getting more popular every day. I've already reported it to Duolingo last week, and I hope they take care of it as soon as possible. The hacker that made the script is very cocky thinking he's smarter than Duo's programmers, (his own words) and he's even making money off of it (3 Euro for some kind of lifetime key of getting xp). This is absolutely ridiculous. Look at this user's raw data:

12x 100 in one MINUTE, 7x100 in 21:00:51, 700 xp in one second. This is the script I'm talking about. Those aren't xp from placement tests, I've tried that. The problem is not people repeating stories over and over, the biggest problem is hackers that abuse this website's code and getting money off it.

November 15, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/DiegoDutra

@prisonmike420, Those are the cheaters who use Replay XHR. Many users have been reporting this BUG for years.

I do really hope that this time the Engineers can do something really effective to fix it.

That's extremely annoying!

November 15, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/prisonmike420

@ DiegoDutra, no no, I know for a fact that this is a script that's been going around, and its not the good old replay XHR bug, trust me (I think that's been fixed actually). The said script at one point could generate 1000 and 100 000 xp at a time. It could even make negative xp like -1000. There's a video on yt you can search it. Actually don't.

Honestly if I try and report every abuse I see just this week, I'll have to be sending report emails to Duolingo every day, two times a day lol. It's insane what people do just to get to the first place on the leaderboard or just because.

November 15, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/AnjaliNoronha

Can we not get the leaderboards off somehow.?

November 20, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/NickAmok

AnjaliNoro, if you go into settings I believe there is an option I which you can turn off leaderboards.

December 1, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/duonks

Yep. This type of blatant abuse should be really easy to detect (and nerf) automatically.

November 15, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/duonks

I just did a quick search and found exactly what prisonmike is talking about. Still, should be pretty easy to nerf if duo really wanted to... matter of priorities I guess. :-)

Aside from that, anyone prepared to download a script from an unknown server (or code that calls an unknown script) absolutely deserves what they may get!

November 16, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Kelikaku

Here is a user earning 2300XP
in one minute:

I am tempted to give this user the
benefit of the doubt. This is assuredly
some kind of computer problem of
the sort, in any case, and should be
addressed.

I just emailed this screenshot and
a few like it to abuse@duolingo.com .

Great topic! Thanks for posting.
Keep up the good work.


EDIT After emailing data with the
user´s duolingo profile to the Sysops
at abuse@duolingo.com, they responded
that the account would be
deleted. The account no longer exists.

בס״ד

November 28, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/cartergraysons

I really want level 25 so bad but Wow, I'd rather do it the right way, report all spammers if you see. Duolingo is no place for this.

November 18, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/TeribleT

You can report the spammers, nothing happens to them until they get into the hundreds of thousands. I've reported people that I know have been reported by other users, and are obviously cheating, and they are still at it. (But Duolingo felt it necessary to warn me not to call out cheaters for cheating, #priorities). Plus, see here, people who have used bots to see what happens (at 500,000- 1.7 million xp a week in the leagues, 25,000 xp an hour, share what Duolingo did, and didn't do... If you can get that much xp before Duolingo even notices... Then they really don't care about catching cheaters ) https://www.reddit.com/r/duolingo/comments/d4rezq/this_is_ridiculous_most_of_this_xp_was_gained_in/f0izsd4/

November 19, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/j0hngalt

That's a disheartening reply from Duolingo.

Cheaters win and you got a warning? :(

December 2, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/I.B.Intelligence

Yeah people are trying to better there lives by learning other languages and then people are trying to spam the site and take the fun out of duolingo!

November 25, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/TonyA.Lowe

Lol this is actually hilarious! People cheat on an app you're supposed to learn from? Wow I had no idea people would cheat themselves to have first place at something where the benefit is actually doing the work. Insane!

December 3, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/2px6O16j

So this is the script that 1st place used to get top spot in Diamond league a couple of weeks ago. Was wondering how he could replay placement test XP in intervals of 1 second (humanly impossible).

November 19, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/dddd189733

si

December 5, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/JamesHai

I don't even have the /ability/ to far stories because they're only available for a few languages, which I'm not as invested in

November 28, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Mark285053

@prisonmike420 I saw the same thing with a player like that that earns 100XP in a minute. How do I report them? To what email?

December 1, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/prisonmike420

Hi Mark, take a look at this post on how to report abuse https://forum.duolingo.com/comment/35332798

December 2, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/AnjaliNoronha

Thanks for this.

November 20, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Linda_from_NJ

It is possible to do this in a couple of seconds if you read fast, have learned the translation and its variations, dictate your answer into your phone, and get into a rhythm. You get into a gestalt. The other day, for the first time, I did this when I was encountering sentences I had never had before. It was exhilarating.

Dictation is very fast, and my using a stylus with the phone also increases my speed. Other than that, I don't cheat, and it is a drag to be told that you must be cheating because you are becoming faster. Before this week, I had rarely used the "practice button" When I decided to try it, that was when I had my burst of speed. I was seeing Spanish sentences I hadn't seen in months and knowing what they meant without having to translate them consciously inside my head. What a cruel joke to have that for all of three days and then get hit with a "health" (Talk about Big Brother!) system that increases my nervousness and subsequently decreases my accuracy. Except for the fact that I can't afford language lessons, it makes me want to quit DL.

NOTE: I'm putting all this together, and I'm wondering if that is why I didn't get credit after I got a notice that I had won first place in a league a few weeks ago. I didn't worry about it until I just started researching the discussion forum after I got switched to the "health" system today. What a bummer! BTW, I don't cheat. Rather, using the phone instead of my computer and dictating instead of typing is what accelerated my learning curve.

November 19, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/CatherinGregory

That practice button is a good thing. ;) It accelerated by speed and I don't even care about the leaderboards.

November 20, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/jairapetyan

The first few days I adapted to the fact that they give you XP for practicing a skill only the first time (my Latin tree is solid gold but I still need a lot of practice). I thought it was good and that it would simply encourage me to go through more skills in one session, then repeat them the next day.

But it really is not good. Today, for example, there was a sentence which I translated perfectly well (I am positive) but since it was timed practice I didn't have time to press the report button. Well I pressed it actually but was looking for "My answer should be accepted" when the thing timed out and everything disappeared.

So I went and practiced again, just so I could report that sentence. I did the whole lesson and didn't earn any XP. The guilty sentence didn't show up -- they were all new.

Obviously it's an exaggeration that they don't give us XP for repeating practice in the same skill when there is plenty of new material.

And when I only get ten correct out of a possible 20 then I really do need the practice. I move on because I want the XP too. But I feel cheated and frustrated because I know there was some missed learning.

Btw, I kept on doing that lesson and the sentence I was waiting for never appeared again.

November 24, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/JamesHai

Maybe it would be beneficial to automatically pause the timer when the notice of correctness or wrongness comes up and then start it again when the next question appears.

November 28, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/jairapetyan

@JamesHal, when you are doing timed practice you cannot stop the timer! The only thing you could do is abort and start over, but if you've stopped to report a needed translation you aren't guaranteed it will come up again.

November 30, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/JamesHai

I think it should be possible to contest bot claims or something, explain yourself to moderators, and get justice, though I do think that's extremely fast even if you're using dictation.

November 28, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/SabineBergmann1

yes, me too. I already commented it before. There are people which had more than 60000 XP in the first day at 10 o'clock. I don't have any idea how this is possible. It is not possible for a normal user to make more than 1000 points in an hours, repeating and repeating time limited basic lessons. I tried it one time. They must have found another way. At the same time it is not exactly encouraging, if you spend lots of time doing normal levels, being on the first place finally and not getting any reward the next day, although a message is send on the mobile that the rewards is waiting for you. I am having enough lingots and I am not in need of more but nevertheless this is not nice to see.

November 26, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/CarlyConwa3

thats- a lot of languages-

November 20, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/FaZeNightMare

omg how many languages are you studying??!!!

December 1, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Mark285053

Can you give me the email I need to send to when I report someone?

December 1, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/PeterParah

What is the point of cheating on DL? Can the XP points be converted into cash somehow?

November 23, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/tatacgarces

people who get pleasure on other people's pain... that is reward enough for their brains/egos... (social basic contract, be truthful and play fair... there is people wired for the opposite :( sadly)

December 1, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Wowa269009

I repeat one story once or twice a week. It's good remember some expressions that you probably forgot. I think it's ridiculous to repeat over and over again the same story just to get some extra XP. Seriously how empty your life must be to have to do this to feel better.

On the other side I don't understand people who compete with others in learning languages. What's the point? You should try to improve for yourself not for others.

December 5, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Hani77777

nice one :P

November 24, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/DiegoDutra

Thomas, how are you? Well, I think it's some robot programmed with Python.

November 15, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/WarriorCleberz

Agreed! I prefer the return of the Immersion section than all these paliatives created by staff.

November 27, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Y9107g36

Were used, not would be used

December 3, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Biocin1

(SHOCK..........)

November 17, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/NickAskew1

If that is someone going over their past stories then I agree that this is not cheating. I did not know that you could redo stories but after reading this I tried it and realised just how much my language has improved and now I can do the stories without needing to translate every word. I would encourage others to try this because it really reinforces what you have learned. Clearly genuine cheats (scripts users) should be tackled and removed. I guess that each league is randomly assigned but perhaps Duo could put cheats together in their own league ;-)

November 25, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Bron514643

I like re-doing stories too. I think they really push you out of your comfort zone. I'm hoping that in the revamp it may be possible to also provide written scripts to make it easier to learn chunks of the text.

November 26, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Kelikaku

... going over their past stories then
I agree that this is not cheating ...

Yes, I agree. When I drill the stories, I
repeat them. I find going back through
even the very simplest stories is of value,
and I see things in a new way when I do it.

I disagree that Duolingo should "nerf" XP
rewards in the story drills. It is of value, and
the stories are usually more than a few minutes
long. Some of the advanced stories are quite
long and do not reward very many points,
comparatively.

Please keep the XP rewards on story
repetition. It is valuable. In fact, I would
like a review of the XP rewards in stories,
I should think they are more valuable than
what they currently are being given.

Great perspective. Thanks for posting this.
Keep up the good work! בס״ד

November 28, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/ChristopheQc

I would agree. I've completed the French tree, but I have been restarting and going over the stories again, usually just listening as much as possible (I know that since there are multiple choice/fill-in the blank questions it's not always easy to do). I find that by concentrating on listening rather than just reading, my comprehension of the language has improved. I did notice that the XP were reduced, and while I understand this, it does rob me of some pleasure of being able to understand the story in its own language rather than just reading it alone.

December 3, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/1Lenox1

Hahaha, I like your idea to put all "cheaters" together in their own league. Take two Lingots!

December 8, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Itsdeercraft

well i use stories to get xp but it helps me review and learn the words better and i promise i would never misuse it but i agree there has to be at least a cool down or limit per day.

November 28, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/WASHEDINTHEBLOOD

this is great! I am sick of people cheating

November 27, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/ShadowKarambit

It's sad because if other people in the league do it, then you are forced t as well

November 27, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/CharlotteK938995

no you arent. Why are you here? To learn a language or compete for XP with random strangers? What other people do is irrelevant. Learn your language and have fun, end of. You can be in the top league as much as you like, but the real test of a language is using it with native speakers and leagues and xp wont help you with that.

December 2, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/j0hngalt

For some of us, honest competition is a motivator. If it isn't for you, that's great (truly, not being snarky). But for some of us it would be helpful if we could trust it wasn't being gamed.

December 2, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/OptionAl390804

Well, what if they re-engineered the leaderboard to register points only from a randomized test module, entirely separate from the regular practice and story modules? I think that could raise an un-gameable barrier to the automated milking of the static practice and story modules, if the test were randomized to a high enough degree.

December 2, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/OptionAl390804

And it may not just be a simple matter of randomization. It may involve the use of non-text based interfaces like voice or maybe re-captcha, in order to side step the cheaters' farming of Duolingo's text-based answer key.

Maybe that is more effort than Duolingo wants to put into it, but it would be a fair way to salvage this engaging league competition concept.

December 2, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/butterscotchmrrw

I think I like the idea of a test, but how about guidelines. How long is the test? Is it timed? How often do you take it? I think a test is a great idea whether it's for the leaderboard or not.

December 8, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/JosephineM210100

Yeah, I've been in second and third place behind some pretty unreasonable scores . . .which brings me to the question of: why? If you cheat the system, it automatically becomes less rewarding because it's easier. Might be just my opinion, but I doubt it.

November 30, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/OptionAl390804

Some people just like ruining things for other people. It's just the tail end of the normal distribution curve of human psychology. There's no changing that--although, of course, it is relatively easy to alter the system to block the worst abuses.

November 30, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/FrancescaFo

Duolingo should really have levels of XP that an individual can reach on their own not competing with others. IE like Pokemon and Ingress. They could have a list of who reaches each milestone. That takes the cheating out and encourages learning at each individuals pace. "Speed" learning before checkpoints is horrible.

December 3, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/RainAtDawn

Duo does have the Sage achievement which increases in level when you reach XP milestones. For example, I'll get to level 9 when I hit 12,500 XP.

It's currently on Android but not the website; I don't know about iOS. I also don't know whether achievements for all users are collated anywhere.

December 3, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Hunter697703

I'm glad they are finally doing something about this, especially with the new achievements on android, being #1 in a league was really difficult with botters

December 5, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/JergusR

hmmm

November 24, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/PaulDollar2

honestly think the bots are kinda ok, there are competitors thousands of points above others and actually legit. Of course, there is a questionable dilemma of using bots to make more of a challenge on leader boards, but cheaters should be bumped regardless. I just feel there shouldnt be someone who does one days worth of grinding out points then does nothing the rest of the week because no one on the boards wants to attempt that many points. consistent practice. my opinion anyway.

November 18, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Linda_from_NJ

If you have the capacity to do one day's work without cheating and get to a high ranking in the leaderboards, there is nothing wrong with it. However, that does explain why I can be #2, get promoted to the "pearl level," and then be #48 in the demotion zone in less that 24 hours. I have even been #1 (I forget which league, but I think it was the diamond) and haven't gotten credit for it. I am now in the pearl league for the second time, can still eke out enough XP's to get promoted, and then fall back very quickly if I'm not spending too much time on DL. When I say "enough" XP's, I'm talking about 300 to 500 in a couple of hours. Moreover, I wasn't "gaming the system." Instead, I was dictating my tans to turn them into golds by practicing speaking Spanish, switching over to greens to turn them into reds when I got fatigued from speaking Spanish, and then typing reds last because this level is where I polish my spelling, vocabulary and word recognition. Green is my lowest color, and I am down to six left. I'm fairly advanced in the system, and I can't understand why DL is trying to push me away by foisting "health" on me. Doesn't it need people like me who have the capability to increase the vocabulary and syntax correctly in the database?

By the way, I have 695 crowns, so cheating is not the reason why "health" doesn't work for me. It's the pressure that makes me so nervous that I make mistakes. According to my husband who did the math (something I'm not good at), I lost over 4,000 gems today in my attempts to figure out how the health system works! From now on, I'm sticking to the webpage and a system that I'm used to where my lingots increase every day as the result of my hard work and I'm only competing against myself.

November 19, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/dog311933

I, to my surprise, found out that I could repeat stories. I also found out that repeating a story really helps my learning. I don’t think we should be penalized for doing this but perhaps a limit per day on the number of times might be in order, say three times per day.

November 15, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/GlassSlippers

Well, if learning is your goal, you can read the stories as much as you want and the lack of extra points shouldn't bother you. There's no penalty.

November 15, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Sam347377

Yes but since you are still actively learning, I think you should get some xp still, even if its a significant drop off. Reviewing past material is very important and helpful.

November 17, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/WVJoy

I agree with this. I have been an educator since the 1980s. Repetitions is part of what puts knowledge into long term memory. In fact, to retain materials up to six months, it takes seventeen repetitions. Allowing some points to be gotten for diligent repetition makes sense.

November 29, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/OptionAl390804

They do, just not all on one single day. Studies show that spaced repetition is the most effective, and in fact you can repeat stories for full points. Just not multiple times in the same day.

November 29, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Andreas83

I think the XP are a good indication for learning effort, even though you might be able to cheat this equation a little here and there.

I use the XP count to keep track of the amount of time I invest in different languages.

November 18, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/2_Paris_Soon

@GlassSlippers

Writing "shouldn't bother you" seems to reserve for you a position of determining for others what motivates them. Very presumptuous, borderline pompous.

I have a more focused approach and have read ALL of the FRENCH stories at least once. Many are not worthy of being reread, alas. MORE NEW ONES WERE PROMISED a couple of years ago. But so far no new additions. Only about 10 per cent of the stories have a minimum of literary and entertainment value, in my opinion.
What they are VERY GOOD FOR IS practicing reading aloud, where I find myself among the very few here who highly recommend this method of improving pronunciation.

But beyond that, it's important to understand that many played for the points without "cheating" or using scripts, whatever they are. They did this even though there was nothing valuable that they might win.

I believe that DL should have tested and VETTED the system much earlier. I am very glad to see new systems prevent so great a focus on XP performance as it was obvious that many were not using DL for learning.
Competition will always ALLOW and even encourage the "players" to test what is possible in arena of competition. Blaming the players because your UNTESTED system allowed for such absurd behaviors doesn't relieve you of your negligence.
Many abuses were reported early on by more than a few students here. There are hundreds of discussions of incorrect answers still uncorrected in the "Discuss" area. Ask publicly about this too when the Leaderboards problems are no longer so pressing, please.

My apologies for any typos or other errors as I have interrupted my other work to comment here.

MY SUGGESTION: Buy some "GRADED READERS" in your target language and then read them often, including occasionally aloud, almost yelling. Try it!!!

November 20, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/BrandonSho1

Perhaps you have a misguided idea of playing vs gaming. If you are playing, you are following the rules; if you are gaming, the rules are something to be worked around. Rule sets help you learn by confining your creativity into an area of focus.

November 20, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/HopeIsCrazy

But it does bother quite a few people, whether it should or shouldn't, it does. Doesn't seem unreasonable to me to get xp every time but like, 2 pts for every question answered. since most stories have only 4 or 5 things to do in each one (besides reading them, of course), it'd be nice to be able to a few points for continuing to learn from the stories. Golden circles crack and have to be restored now. maybe the stories could do that as well.

November 19, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/TeribleT

Except most languages don't have stories. So it's really unfair that they are included for league points at all. Most of the top league scorers who aren't cheats are just doing stories. You can see this because they getting 20+ xp each go (and yet many of them have a strength of 70% or less). It's one of the reasons why the top league scorers are predominantly storied languages. (The other is the storied languages are the easiest for English speakers to learn).

So just by giving you any points for stories you're already at an unfair advantage.

November 19, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/HopeIsCrazy

I've seen the stories in 3 languages so far: English, Spanish, and Portuguese. They are all the same stories but with little differences, like in one language it's about the boys grandpa and the same story in another language its about the boys grandma. Just little changes like that. I got all my fingers crossed in hopes of Duolingo working on getting the stories translated into every language they have available. That would certainly be nice and it would give everyone closer to the same opportunity of learning via the short stories. I dont know if Duolingo is working on adding the stories in other languages but if enough people are asking for it/ asking about it, there's a better chance that the Duolingo folks will get them to all languages.

November 22, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Nancy703521

There are stories in German and I am very enthusiastic about them.

November 23, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/DirtyHarri3

I have decided that I will write the stories as I learn them, that will help me more than just repeating them.

November 17, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/HopeIsCrazy

Here here, DirtyHarri3!!! The first time i go thru the story I write down the words and phrases I dont know. Then I have it to refer to the next time i read the story and after writing it down its easier for my brain to remember at least some of it. I have a spiral bound notebook, soecifically for Spanish and another for Portuguese, etc and it's really helped me a lot.

November 19, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/RainAtDawn

I've seen a number of people recommend handwritten notebooks to record and annotate all new words and phrases encountered.

I haven't yet used a note book for German, but I have used them in other disciplines, including keeping up to date in my field of work. I don't often refer to them, but I find the act of writing helps retention.

https://forum.duolingo.com/comment/24480695/How-to-keep-a-language-notebook https://www.fluentu.com/blog/foreign-language-notebook

December 3, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/camdavbax

I love this idea! Thanks for the suggestion :D

November 17, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Andreas83

It's also slower. So I don't know if it's actually that much more effective!

November 18, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/HopeIsCrazy

It's WAAAAAAY slower but it sure did help me retain more words per re-reading of each story!

November 19, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/CallumCourt2017

dont limit the amount of stories per day

November 20, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Kelikaku

Stories are important, and while most of
the languages do not have them, they all
eventually will have them.

It is of great value to repeat the stories
and drill even the most simple stories.
I do not think it would be a good idea for
the Sysops to "nerf" the XP rewards for
repeating the stories. I think the value in
repeating stories is not something a user
can get from repeating the drills.

Great topic. Keep up the good work.
בס״ד

November 28, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Taek8

Which languages do have stories? Where do you find them?

December 6, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/buck72

Thank you for a timely post regarding practice, XPs and Leagues. Understanding and knowing more about DL strategies and sharing them with users goes a long way towards clearing up misunderstandings. Thank you again. :)

November 15, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Seanchai35

Thank you. I'm happy to have stories nerfed, but I would encourage you (general you) to think carefully about how you nerf it. Most English speakers don't need to run through the first set of Spanish or French stories more than 3-4 times, total... but many English speakers might indeed need to run through set 1 of stories in other languages more distant from English (Russian, Polish, Chinese, Japanese, Korean, Irish, Welsh...) and might still be deriving benefits on the 8th or 10th time through. I realize none of the languages I've listed as "more distant from English" have Stories right now, but if you're ever planning on expanding to them, do keep in mind future proofing in terms of how you're going to calibrate points. Stories in non-Latin scripts or with grammar/orthography wildly different from English will fundamentally take more practice to grasp (for most)... and the same applies in reverse, e.g. English for Mandarin speakers etc.

Thanks again for the update.

November 15, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Druckles

I'd like to underline:

but many English speakers might indeed need to run through set 1 of stories in other languages more distant from English

And this applies to practice mode too!

Nerfing practice means I can't practise my Korean as effectively. But I can still get away with practising any German lesson I want (which I've been speaking fluently for about 3 years) with minimal effort and no penalty.

Edit I'd also like to say I think that competitive Leagues makes little sense with regards to learning. Everyone learns in their own way (which is different to "motivation" mentioned by OP) and I think the shortcomings and the difficulties staff and users are having with Leagues reflects that.

November 16, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Eija298140

The league thinking is bad for you. I'm elderly and learning several languages. I'm doing fine because I've studied languages before. I needed some surgery and had to stay in hospital. One of my biggest worries was, how will it effect my studies on Duo. It isn't quite easy to work when having high temperature, ackes etc. But still trying even with fewer XPs

November 19, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/2_Paris_Soon

Bonne chance, mon ami!!!

November 20, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/TJTitmus

Keep it up and best of luck in all matters - you know the saying use it or lose it. BTW I was amused when a 78 year old called me young man the other day, I was born in 1951.

November 23, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/FLchick

@TJTitmus Me, too! My birthday is in December.

December 2, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Cheryl797502

me too & in December

December 3, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/FLchick

@Eija Hang in there, baby!

December 2, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/1Wildone

The problem is that they are getting Xp faster than is humanly possible. I forget A LOT and do practice some exercises a time or two. I do that to actually learn the language. I do try to stay just ahead of some to kind of motivate them to do just a little bit more. Cheaters never win, Winners never cheat. The main point here is what it takes to learn a language. Sometimes repetition is very helpful and should not be discouraged. Gaining XP points by cheating should be discouraged.

November 16, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Cajuntinman53

My poor old brain doesn't absorb and store information as well as it used to and I do a lot of repetitive drills to help get the information into my long term memory. Also I have no one who speaks the langue around me so the stories help to hear words phrased in different ways.

November 17, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/2_Paris_Soon

@Cajun

Have you seen some documentation that repetitive drills help get the information into your long term memory? There is considerable research that shows little or no gain.

However, using the words you are studying in new sentences should help a lot. Attempting to write has been shown to significantly improve performance in a new language.

Try this: With your new words, write something in the target language. You'll need to try to make some sense of the words in a sentence. Better yet, write a few sentences. Try to find someone fluent in German. Good luck.

November 20, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/TJTitmus

All you say applies to me too including wetware degeneration ;-)

November 23, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Druckles

But the new change (0 xp on subsequent practices) only hurts regular, honest users. Cheaters will (always) find a way around and a system needs to be put into place that targets them.

If Duolingo wishes to pursue the more competitive element, they need to look to the games industry.

November 17, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/ArtisanPretzel

Agreed, I always need to repeat a story a few times so I can get a better understanding of when/where/why I should use a certain word. But now I feel that stories are useless because I put a lot of time into trying to get a good understanding of what they are saying, but only get a measly amount of xp as a reward? C'mon Duo!

November 23, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/sea-mist

its always sad when I see that this site has caused someone to be more interested in the gaming and getting xp then the actual learning of things.

November 24, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/FLchick

@Sea-mist Different strokes for different folks. I couldn’t reply to Sea-mist directly.

December 2, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/SmashCookie

Edit I'd also like to say I think that competitive Leagues makes little sense with regards to learning. Everyone learns in their own way (which is different to "motivation" mentioned by OP) and I think the shortcomings and the difficulties staff and users are having with Leagues reflects that.

You said it Timon.

There could be ways to make the competition more balanced but for those who just care about winning there'll always be ways to rig the system, be it using a language they know, be it finding a new vulnerability and using a smarter script-bot.

November 17, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Andreas83

I don't think that it is ever a good idea to practice one skill more than once a day (after level 5).

It's a waste of time. Better practice more different skills, and repeat them a few days later.

Spaced repetition is not the only way to achieve long term mastery, but rather it is meant to save time. And that also means you should ideally be failing a significant portion of the stuff every time you practice. Up to 50% if you want to be aggressive. But if your practice session tend to be near perfect, you could be progressing faster.

The only time that's not the case is in a test situation. Meaning you have a (near) point in time, and a fixed amount of material to learn. Then, yes, you should practice until your fingers bleed and you get 99-100% proficiency!

November 18, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/AndrewRodd6

Not sure I understand

November 19, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/2_Paris_Soon

@Andrew.

Greetings. I agree. Some suggestions here are contrary to what research at important universities has shown to be beneficial.

Repetition is not the mother of fluency. One can learn where my aunt's pen is and say so a thousand times. ("La plume de ma tante est sur la table." It's a very old phrase in French used repetitively to try to help learn French.) Better to write where you bought the pen you gave your aunt and how she told you she uses it every day to write poetry. Then you are recycling and reusing a number of words with new meanings. It helps. No essays here, alas.

November 20, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/HopeIsCrazy

Seanchai35 , I'm not sure why you think that 'most English speakers don't need to run through the first set of Spanish or French stories more than 3-4 times, total'; if you actually have data or if you are just assuming based on your won experience. It's got to be different for each individual which is why Duolingo works so much better for me than a class; I can learn at my own learning pace. Keep in mind, there are people of every age using Duolingo. There are people of all different abilities using Duolingo. Some have dyslexia. Some are geniuses. Some are on medications that make it really hard to concentrate. Some are abusing adderall and learning at double speed. I think some points for re-reading the stories and answering the questions/ filling in the blanks, etc should rewarded with some points but not the full 24. Like a max of 10 maybe.

November 19, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Seanchai35

Nope, no data, and never claimed to have any. :) I said "most" for a reason - which allows for dyslexia, people with bad memories, people who struggle with languages, people who can't hear or see well, etc etc. I'm disabled myself, but "most" people on the internet aren't, so I used "most." "Most" also allows for "maybe you are bog standard average and you still need to repeat the first set a thousand times, and if so, good for you for having that kind of tenacity." And, hopefully, all situations in between.

It never ceases to amaze me how some people complain if you take the time to explain your argument (TL;DR!) and some complain when you try to be concise. ("OMG you didn't explain MY situation in triplicate so you must be stating something as an empirical fact without any data!!")

I'll try again; It is understandable that Duolingo would want to disincentivize "farming" stories. Most people ("most" may or may not include you personally, HopeisCrazy) are not doing the first set of stories over and over ad infinitum for the purposes of education. However, languages further from one's native languages are harder to grasp, and therefore one often can divine more benefit from them by doing them more than that same person might need to do stories in a language closer to English.

Put another way, HopeisCrazy, if you are a native speaker of English and you need to do the first set of Spanish stories X times to feel you've gotten everything out of them, how many times do you think you'd need to do the same ones in Russian? Or Arabic? Or even Irish, with its verb-subject-object word order and very different-from-English grammar? More than X times? Maybe even X+10?

That was my point. My point was "please don't hit all languages with the same hammer." That's all. It was a point bourne of knowing that Duolingo really likes to hit all languages with the same hammer. (See: Why leaderboards aren't separated by language in the first place. See: timed practice gives you exactly the same amount of time even when you're trying to input languages with a completely different keyboard, and then requires you to swap between them at a very rapid clip. See: Why is there no marker for formal vs informal "you" in languages for which that applies, so sometimes "how are you?" is marked wrong if you input it with "formal you" and sometimes it's wrong if you input it with "informal you." Duolingo thinks all language can be whacked with the same hammer, and if the hammer doesn't work, run an A/B test and whack it harder.)

We are agreed on the problem at hand, and I was not in any way disparaging you or anyone else who might need to use a given set of stories more than an arbitrary number of times. I was simply trying to make my point while avoiding getting hit with whiny "OMG your posts are sooooo looooong" comments.

But here you go... here's your long, overly-explanatory, trying-to-cover-all-the-bases-but-no-doubt-someone-will-still-have-a-problem-with-it comment.

November 24, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/2_Paris_Soon

Why not stop after reading and rewrite each story paraphrasing what you have read, sometimes using the same words and sometimes looking for new ways to say something similar to what you read? Hmmm?

November 20, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/HopeIsCrazy

That's a good suggestion, 2_Paris_Soon. I write down the words and phrases in the stories that I'm not familiar as I go thru the story the first time so I can refer back to my 'notes'. Plus, the process of writing out the words long hand helps cement the new info into my memory. Having it all in one notebook is a bonus cuz I can take it with me to bed and go over the new words and phrases before going to sleep. I like your idea of paraphrasing, I assume in your target language, of what you just read. I'm going to have to try that with the next stories I read. Thanks for the suggestion! :-)

November 22, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/realberggren

HopelsCrazy: good point, I don't remember things that I don't write down.

November 24, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/FLchick

Taking notes in class and re-writing them sure helped me in my Economics class. And Microbiology.

December 2, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/TeribleT

Seanchai, they haven't even kept it in mind for timed practice. It's a lot more time consuming to type in a non-Roman alphabet, having to switch back and forth between languages. Also, some languages don't have TTS, but human voiced audio files, so there is no slow speed - sometimes requiring you to play the file repeatedly to figure out what's being said. Timed practice on level one, before the first checkpoint is much easier than level 4 or 5, towards the end of the tree - and the xp should reflect that. If they awarded points based on the level and skill difficulty it would be a lot more accurate. All of this wouldn't be a big deal if they just adjusted the leaderboards so people were competing against others learning the same language, or a language with a similar difficulty rating.

November 19, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/BrandonSho1

This is a good point. I very quickly stalled out on Russian and decided to wait about pursuing it for this very reason -- Its difficult for me to get my brain around it yet. However, my every moment on DL is for learning and the XP/Leaderboard thing is very much secondary fun... and it really does make me want to participate more. XP probably makes me more willing to engage the challenging (for me) sections -- but gaming the XP system isn't what I'm here for.

November 20, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Saskia390132

Wait, there are Russian stories now?

November 22, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Seattle_Scott

This entire thread is why I strongly dislike the leaderboards. Of course people are spending significantly more tin]me on Duo, because Duo has appealed to the competitive nature in all of us. But that doesn’t equate to learning, or longevity here. I’m sure it does improve site metrics, but it’s manupulative in the same way social media is manipulative. And now everyone is talking about what’s fair, and who’s cheating etc, using a metric (XP) that has become otherwise obsolete with the loss of levels.

I find the leagues argument disingenuous, because it is an opt out system and not an opt in system, with the only way to opt out being to make your profile private.

So with all due respect, I still give leagues a huge thumbs down. Make it an opt in system for those who come here for competitive games.

Thanks

November 16, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/SusanMurph17

Hey Seattle, I used to agree (ie about hating the leaderboards). However once I succumbed to my competitive nature, I realized that I was truly learning quite a bit more. Longevity is not a problem, either. I don't cheat, and I used to really struggle just not to get demoted. I have noticed lately though, that the competition is not racking up the 5 and 6 digit numbers that they used to, so something must be working. In the meantime, I have concluded that leagues serve a purpose. At least for me.

November 17, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Seattle_Scott

Good for you, and I’m sure you’re not alone. But I think the majority don’t like it, and would prefer an opt in, not an opt out system. With an opt in system we can all like it or dislike it on our own terms.

Any time a company makes me opt out of something, and then makes opting out awkward or difficult, I smell manipulation, and that’s the case now with Duo leagues.

Being thrown into a new league each week, with new users at random, who don’t even share the same language interests, and then putting the league at the very top of the page, with “demotion zone” in red, is a manipulative ploy aimed at improving site usage statistics. If more learning occurs for some, it’s a byproduct, not the goal. Anyone who has worked in high tech or watched a few episodes of “Silicon Valley” understands this tragic comedy all too well.

November 17, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Andreas83

I'd be careful about the "majority" conclusion. Participation in a forum (usually complaining) is not an unbiased picture.

I also don't like the leader boards, but they really do work for me. Go figure!

November 18, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/tantegreta

I don't really care about the randomness, but it's quite unfair to get grouped with people who just started a new language and can do 800XP easily per day whereas I can only do 200-400 :-(

November 17, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Linda_from_NJ

What's worse is being a legacy who can legitimately do 800 XPs or more in about half a day, and then getting lumped in with cheaters who buy illegal programs in order to game the system. I'm being punished for finally getting better at Spanish. My learning style is to make mistakes deliberately and learn from them, and with "health," I now can't do that anymore. This is a big setback for me.

November 19, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/HopeIsCrazy

Are you serious??!!?? People actual buy cheater programs for duolingo???? That blows my mind! I can understand someone padding their xp if on a particular day they were crazy-busy and didn't have the time to put in their usual amount of time (which usually amounts to about the same amount of xp). I did that once because I was gone from my laptop for almost 20 hours and I didn't want the low number of xp on one day throwing off my average points per day. But for someone to actually shell-out money to get some program that cheats for you is way out there!

November 22, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/2_Paris_Soon

@Linda

I am very curious about language learning styles. How do you make mistakes deliberately? I think that equals simply intentionally giving the wrong answer. And to do so means that you already know the correct answer. So what is it that you are learning? Are there no other methods of language learning which might compete for your attention?

November 20, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/sea-mist

sadly I dont do duolingo any more though used to really love doing that and for someone who has a learning disability had previously been doing great. (now I just come to read the comments) due to all that manipulation stuff and unfairness of leagues. I have poor health and the leagues made me very sick as I over did things as I do have a competitive nature.. so it's really sucked not being able to turn them off without the ones who follow me etc loosing ability to see my profile etc.

So I keep checking in waiting for the day when it will be an optional thing without having negative consquence to turning it off and then I will get back to my duolingo learning.

For some who had been serious learners who didnt need extra incentive.. it has been a huge turn off to learning. I wish duolingo would consider that not everyone is the same when they introduce new things and had a "no thanks" opt out button for anything new they bring in.

November 24, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Briancrichardson

I think that is a good idea. Here's a lingot!

November 16, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Briancrichardson

Hello Sean,

Thank you for the update. Please be careful about preventing multiple repetitions of stories on the same day. Rather than entirely preventing getting XP for more than one review of a story, could you consider limiting the number of allowable repetitions to 2-5 times in a day? I have found myself repeating some stories many times in a day. Doing this has actually increased my functional vocabulary and helped me to recognize words better.

In my case I also feel that Duolingo may have inadvertently influenced me to review the same stories multiple times rather than to do more new ones because its my opinon that the vocabulary of the stories seems to increase very dramatically after the first 20 stories or so. Its challenging to read and listen to a story when you know very few of the words. I have never encountered most of the words in the more advanced stories in any of my lessons. Would it be possible for you to have the stories increase in difficulty more gradually?

Would it be possible to base the stories on the vocabulary introduced in the duolingo lessons?

November 16, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/BethWelch3

I on the other hand, appreciate the new vocabulary in the stories. And you can always repeat the story every day if you want and get XP. Or multiple times a day and only receive XP for the first pass of the day on a story.

November 16, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Briancrichardson

I appreciate the new vocabulary in the stories also, however, frankly I can't easily absorb ten or more new words in one story easily. I look every new word up. I even write most of them down in my vocabulary book. For me, the real benefit of the stories is hearing the language spoken and following the story audibly. I generally try to listen to the stories without reading the text first.

I personally don't think that listening to a story multiple times in a day and getting XP for it is cheating. Repetition is important for learning, and there is nothing wrong about getting credit for it in my opinion. Of course, that can be taken to the extreme. Repeating one story 50-100 times in a day is probably overkill. Twice, three times? How about 10? That repetiton might really help one learn the vocabulary better than simply writing the words down in a book and memorizing them.

November 16, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/5Q7oOK1I

I agree, I listen to the stories multiple times because I can recognize the words just fine but I am trying to learn how to pronounce them properly. Duolingo is great for expanding vocabulary but I just don’t feel comfortable speaking. The stories are helping me with that so that is why I repeat stories. I actually try to read along with the stories out loud to practice. The stories also help with learning context and proper situational word choice.

November 16, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/BethWelch3

There are 19 sets of stories in Spanish with about 8 stories in each set. That comes to 152 stories you could access each day. I would find it overwhelming to repeat each once a day. Let alone multiple times a day.

November 16, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/-Katarina-H

People are at different level of learning and not everybody can do the more difficult stories...

We are all different and have different ways to learn and remember things. I personally learn more from repeating each story many times, which helps me to learn the sentence structure. I do not benefit from reading too many new stories in one day. Although I found it beneficial to repeat already done stories some other day. But that is my preference. And nobody is stopping me from redoing the story ... I will just not get any XPs.

I am still happy because I am learning the languages where they are stories to use. Many users do not have this option at all, which is kind of unfair, as reading, hearing and speaking together with Duolingo stories is a perfect way to learn a language

November 17, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/BethWelch3

Correction. Just checked against my memory and there are 192 in the Short Stories for Spanish with 10 per set except for the last set that has 12.

November 16, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/TeribleT

Brian, I didn't look at what language/s you are studying but many of them have Duolingo vocab course for xxxx language at Memrise and Anki. It's a really good way to learn the vocabulary.

November 19, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Briancrichardson

Thanks @TerribleT. Have a lingot!

November 20, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Marta720203

I agree with you

November 16, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Biocin1

Great idea! Many times past Level one (I’m on level 2) ew words have taken the enjoyment out of being able to read these stories....practice is one thing...cramming in new words is another....I want to practice my reading! But the stories are a long way ahead of me..I’m afraid to try because it has discouraged me in the past.....

November 17, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/JohnWoodwa10

Yes agree I’m about quarter of way through Spanish always go to level five before moving on but only the first 20 stories are within my capabilities. Normally I progress up to level five and as I lose hearts I go back and practise a previous lesson to get 19 xo and a heart. Very occasionally I will watch an ad to get a heart. When I get frustrated at being 30th in a league yet worked two hours to get 100 points a day I do blast the 20 stories each one takes just under a couple of minutes so maybe 35 stories around 850 an hour but doesn’t feel as good as scoring 50 an hour and learning properly. It would require repeated stories to be only 1xp that so at my speed I just did the stories I would score around 70 in an hour. Of course the first and second times you do a story deserves more

November 21, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/jelly_fiend

Some annoyance for me comes from the fact that people are exploiting things like Stories to get to the top of the leader boards, while the language I'm studying doesn't even HAVE stories! It puts me and people like me at a disadvantage when it comes to advancement.

November 16, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/territrades

Thanks Duolingo team for working on these issues, you are on the right track here.

One thing to think about when you have fixed the obvious issues: Gaining XP is really different between languages. In the new Spanish tree we have a ton of skills and lessons, but they all contain only a handful of words and phrases to learn. Easy. The Russian tree on the other hand has far fewer skills, but every single lesson is packed to the brim with complicated phrases. It takes me much longer to finish a single lesson there.

November 16, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/saltidae

I use Duolingo both to learn and maintain a degree of fluency in a umber of languages. It struck me that Duolingo was fine for me who already had a formal background in some romance and Germanic languages, but would be difficult for a student starting from scratch. When I started Russian This really hit home, to the extent that I now seldom practise Russian here, but use Memrise instead, as it provides me with the basics. There are no basic skill notes in Russian as there are in Spanish. I consistently use the Spanish notes to review verb forms. Anyway... that’s my two bits worth. Interesting forum.

November 18, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/TeribleT

Saltidae, I'm not doing the Russian course, but there are basic skill notes in Russian: https://duome.eu/tips/en/ru Maybe are you referring to something specific that wasn't included?

November 19, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/saltidae

Hi terrible, in Spanish on iOS, there are tips which refresh verb forms, grammar, etc. Russian doesn’t have this. Earlier posts here also refer to being unable to slow down the speakers, also a problem in starting Russian.
On a slightly different topic, iOS had the stories for about a week, then they disappeared with a Duolingo update. I now use chrome on the iPad for stories. Thanks for the link, I’ll check it out.

November 19, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/saltidae

Just followed the link. Awesome, wish I’d seen it sooner. This explains a lot of the mysteries of Russian. Not to mention the confusion between a and o sounding the same, and appearing interchangeable. As an English speaker, and speller.... it serves me right to be learning a language whose spelling appears as erratic as English.

November 19, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/TeribleT

Saltidae, Glad to help! I have/had the same issue in Hebrew - the tips and notes were not available in the app, and I didn't even know they existed until I had completed many of the skills.

I don't know if this exists for Russian, but someone made a PDF of all the tips and notes for the Hebrew course and posted it in the forum. They also made a Memrise Hebrew vocab course using the Duolingo Hebrew course audio files, isolating each word so it is easier to hear. (The Hebrew course, and all of the courses without TTS/that use human voiced audio, don't have the slow sentence option). Someone else uploaded this to Anki. Maybe someone did some of these things for the Russian course? (Just checked - Memrise has two Duolingo Russian courses (one is Duolingo Russian full audio, the other is Duolingo Russian) just search bing.com for "Memrise Duolingo Russian" to find them.

If you didn't know, you can also see your tips and notes, and your progress @ duome.eu/saltidae/progress (it will only show your progress for the course you are currently in, so to see the other course/s, switch to that language in the app, then go to the duome.eu link and refresh if need be).

November 20, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/justinflippy

I've been a member of Duolingo for years, since 2012, and on a continuous streak for more than 5 years now. I've enjoyed my daily exercise to better my understanding of languages, often learning two or three different languages at a time. I've become competent in several through a slow, consistent progression through the language. About 3 months ago, curious about the leagues, I decided, with my experience, I'd give a go at getting to the top league (mistakenly thinking there was only Bronze, Silver and Gold, only later realizing there are far more leagues, and this effort would be a much bigger commitment than I'd intended). I have never used a script or bot to move up the leaderboards; but what i did do is find the most optimal 'point dense' activity I could to reach the required promotion levels to move up. I found this to be repeating the first level exercise on timed practice to gain 20 points in about a minute. This was the only way I found possible to be competitive against some of the people racking up what seems like an impossible 10 000 or more points per week. I've now achieved the 'diamond' level; but to be honest, I've never felt more empty about my experience on Duolingo as I have trying to achieve this goal. My language learning has stalled if not suffered. There has been no particular joy in completing the exercises; it's been a slog, every week to try to keep up against a group of cheaters. I can't think of a more poignant mistake that I've seen in all the years of changes at Duolingo than the introduction of these leaderboards. Having just achieved the diamond tier. I hate myself for it and am giving up on competing in them moving forward. It does not enhance my learning or enjoyment of duolingo, it makes me feel like a slave to the farming of experience points at all costs. If the goal is to encourage people to reach for new goals, remove the competition against others (because lets face it, at the heart, language learning is a solo endeavour, occasionally accompanied by friends, not foes). Set a series of benchmarks, increasing for each tier level. If you get 300 points in a week, progress from bronze to silver; 500 to move from silver to gold, etc. If you insist on a demotion, set a sliding scale in each tier as well. People who want to strive to climb to a higher tier can and will do so, but the individual joy of learning could be restored, and the ability to progress or be demoted is based on a few things: 1) a clear goal / xp score, so there is no frantic Sunday night exercises to top up points to stay in the running 2) maintenance in a tier is more aligned with the level of experience expected in a particular tier, and not on the random 50 people who were assigned to your league this week

Over the years, i've watched changes happen. Some were good, some were bad, but the overarching goal; it seemed; was to help people get better at learning a language. I must say, while I've disliked several changes over the years, the underlying motive was still clear, and defensible. With the introduction of leagues; it's simply no longer the case. You've missed the mark and have significantly weakened the platform.

Might I suggest finally, give an option for those who do not want to partake in leagues or leaderboards, to turn the feature off. It's become a centrepoint of the interface (especially on computer), now showing me the progression of a bunch of cheating strangers, rather than the activity and achievements of my friends and followers.

The numerous posts here confirm that the system is broken. If some people like the leaderboard system, let them opt into it, but for the rest of us who see it for what it is, let us opt out, and return to a positive Duolingo experience.

November 22, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/BethWelch3

I have only been a member since late July. I climbed up the leagues to Diamond a few weeks ago. No bots, no scripts, but the occasional repeat of the same timed exercise more than once a day did happen, as I don't write down which skill I'm working on as I do timed exercises (Duolingo does indicate that now though). It was hard to climb the last 4 leagues, particularly due to the incredible amount of XP the first 10 or more people in it were getting. But persistence paid off. And now I'm not struggling to be in the top 10 because there isn't a higher league to climb to. I can occasional do a Sudoku or read a book. And with the new changes it should be easier for others to achieve higher leagues. I've seen the impact in my own league this week.

November 22, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Syliane1

Thank you for this, Justinflippy.

November 23, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Baldr11

Good post ... thanks. :)

November 23, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Stevalion

Thumbs up

November 28, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/5Q7oOK1I

I completely agree with you! The leagues have really hurt my learning. I reached Diamond weeks ago and I have been trying to keep up but I just can’t do it anymore. There aren’t enough hours in a day for me to earn enough points to keep up with this nonsense and it is making me hate opening Duolingo. I want to turn off the leagues so I can’t even see them anymore so I can go back to my focused language learning, but I can’t seem to do that so I just have to not click the shield. The leagues are a time sink.

December 5, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Nateawesome

But I have another thought on that, often when I'm out somewhere like on vacation I still do duolingo so I don't lose my streak, but I generally do a short story but if you make it so you can't get xp from the same story then I will have to find something else. But you can't make everyone happy. I will do without because the leauges will be better without cheaters.:)

November 15, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/SeanColombo

You will still be able to get some XP each day for a story you've done before. But basically, you'll get the XP only one time that day (so you can't just loop over the same Story repeatedly to farm XP). Hope that clears it up!

November 15, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/GlassSlippers

Others have stated that it is not once a day, that it is permanent - one read, then no more XP period. Which is true ? Thanks.

November 15, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/-Katarina-H

I got it back after cca 10 days... But again restricted repetition for more than one day... But I can still read them just won't receive any XPs. I believe they are still testing it.

I am grateful that I am learning a language where I can read stories. They are a great tool to learn a language. Thank you Doulingo.

I am sad for those who have no stories in their languages. Hope this will change soon and all of us will have the same chance to learn

November 17, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/JessicaDun8187

I think the first run of a perfect story answers should be 20, 1st repeat 15 2nd repeat 10 3rd 5xp after the third 0XP in one story per 24 hour period. or something like this in my opinion.

November 23, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/JessicaDun8187

I may add, do this for practice after level five in a skill 10 1st run 8 the second 5 the third and 1xp for the 4th considering some skills have more than one concept in them.

December 4, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/kmpala
  • 1075

Cheaters, wherever they may be, are only 1/2 step above thieves and 10 steps below dung-eating beetles. And cheating for XP is unbelievably ridiculous since the only one losing anything at all the cheater.

November 15, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/PotatoSanta

How about separate leaderboard points or something? After completing timed practice and being told 0 points every time it feels discouraging and some kind of reward would encourage more practice. There is nothing wrong with repeating timed practice if that is how you learn, the only time it is cheating is using a bot to do it.

November 17, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/AmalieB39

Absolutely! Timed practice requires a lot of concentration and greatly reinforces what has been "taught" but isn't fully understood yet. If I make mistakes in a practice, I often use the Review button to study what I got wrong, copying the correct answer and typing it into the Sentences discussion right then, to get more input into what I haven't mastered yet. I feel like those XPs are hard-earned!

It seems that Timed Practice starts with more recent skills I've been learning and works its way back, practice by practice, to material I learned further back, which I still need to review - so I do many Timed Practices in a day, as fast as I can.

It's hard work, and I do it to really learn the language, not just to get XPs for the Leaderboard. I learn better this way. If it gets penalized, I can live with it - but I won't stop doing what works for me! Just doing the Skills to Level 5 doesn't give me enough practice to know the material and be able to apply it other than in a memorized manner.

November 18, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/TeribleT

It's cheating when people do timed practice on the first few skills over and over again. That's why they removed it for further 'goes' on the same day on the same skill.

You'll retain more using spaced repetition so doing the same skill over and over again on the same day isn't as useful for memory retention. Nothing is stopping you from repeating a skill, it's just not in your best interest to encourage it by rewarding you for doing it. It'll refresh and give you points again every day.

Bottom line, people were cheating without a bot, if there were no leagues it wouldn't matter though, it wouldn't be cheating anyone else. If you just do further lessons on that skill, those sentences will come around again in a few lessons. I don't see the issue here. I'm glad they did this, it made people stop using the intro lessons over and over again to gain points.

November 18, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/PotatoSanta

Are that many people really that desperate to get to the top of the leaderboards? I would find it so boring repeating "good morning" over and over for hours.

November 19, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/TeribleT

Apparently so. I don't understand it either. There's a guy who I did this (from a league I was in a month or two ago) and I just looked at his duome page, he's over 122,000 xp, with 70 crowns. When I was in the league with him, he had under 70,000 xp with.... 70 crowns. In that time I've done, maybe 50 crowns... (might be more). I have over 500 crowns and don't have that much xp. (I have a tenth of his xp in the French tree with 30 more crowns in months)... He hasn't gone past food 2 in the French tree, for what looks like six months to a year. How do you not go bonkers by repeating 'I want a pizza' and 'we are going to the bakery' for months on end?

November 19, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/GlassSlippers

Yo Sean, do you think there is any way that you could kindly post the number of leagues there are: say about how many bronze leagues there are, how many diamond leagues, etc ? I've seen others wondering about this too, just out of curiosity, I'm guessing the Bronze and Sapphire would have the largest numbers ? (beginners and middle of the road). Obviously it changes each week.

Sorry, i just have a mind like a sponge that is curious about everything, even why it snows, and i love statistics, haha. 0.0 Thanks in advance if you can say, and no problem if you cannot. :)

November 15, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Biocin1

And I would love knowing what comes after the Ruby.....how many more leagues are there? Re there ‘gifts’ for staying in place or advancing?

November 17, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/GlassSlippers

Thanks so much for your attention to this matter, Sean ! I do enjoy the leaderboards and they have definitely encouraged me to do more lessons than i normally would have, yet i do not race through them to get points - i simply do more lessons and learn at a greater pace.

As you know there is a lot of talk about "cheaters", however i have apparently been lucky in that for the 3 months i have been back here, i've have never had anyone in my leagues who seemed to cheat. Its been great competition and a nice learning experience to work my way up to the diamond league.
Thank you !

November 15, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/SeanColombo

That's great to hear!

November 15, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Biocin1

Yes! I too enjoy the gentle push it gives to “maaaaaybe one more“ lesson.....I have been in Ruby for awhile now, since I quit leaderboarding...I’m holding my own, I’m happy to add.....with the fix-ups! I will return....Duo, thank you!

November 17, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Sega277530

Thank you for this, but what about or lessons getting drastically shorter?

Repetition is key to obtaining longterm memorisation for a language, 2 lessons per level for a skill is not enough! I went thru entire Skill in a day and now i don't know it like i know other skills where i had to to 40 lessons, but it was worth the practice.

November 16, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Nateawesome

Awesome this is great that you guys are working on it.

November 15, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Jim606185

This may be a little too involved. I don't really care about XP, but was amused to see that the skill was out of XP on one occasion. I usually try for practice against the clock because when you're speaking a foreign language you don't get much time to think, and it's good practice to practice fast. On this occasion the first question was long and convoluted and I messed up the spelling trying to type it fast. I came out of it with one question right, so I decided to practice the same skill , but not against the clock this time so that I could get the most out of the practice, and that's when I saw the "Out of XP" message.

I understand how those people who are motivated by XP might have baulked at this, but I went ahead and practiced it anyway.

November 15, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/ivy171882

why do people even care about XP it is about learning a language?

November 16, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Jim606185

I guess they have the gamer mentality, and it's what motivates them to learn a language. It takes all sorts, and Duolingo seems to cater to different sorts. Nothing wrong with that.

It's possible that one or two might get their feathers ruffled, stomp their feet etc over that particular issue that I mentioned above.

November 17, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/PotatoSanta

Why do people even care about leaderboards? It's about learning a language

November 17, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/TeribleT

Search gameifcation, it's a motivational tool. And "addictive social media feedback loop". It's meant to make you care. And become addicted. The same way YouTube has likes. In reality you shouldn't care if random strangers like a post or comment (or an illustration of an owl says "great job!), but we humans are weird like that. By Duolingo not allowing you to opt in to the leagues they are feeding into the same thing.

November 19, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/jelff2

I think I learn more from repeating stories than anything else in Duolingo. Language in context sticks with me much better than isolated sentences.

Changing the interaction with stories as one repeats sounds like a good plan, but taking away xp for repeating and thus encouraging people not to repeat the stories does not sound like a good idea to me.

Some of the earlier stories are fairly simple, but the later ones are complex, and I don’t understand even half of them until I have heard and read them multiple times, even though I can usually answer the questions asked correctly. I repeat the stories quite a lot because I think they are good cohesive practice of words in context, and I also believe that learning the sounds and rhythms of speech is important in learning a new language well.

I actually find repeating the timed practices a beneficial review as well. I like to repeat them until I can get them all correct, and then move along. I find all the repetition, and lots of typing at speed in my target language, to be very useful for cementing what I have learned. With the cap on xp for review, I may be covering more ground during my allotted practice time, but I don’t feel that I am making the material my own in the same way.

November 16, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/LanceTod

Agreed.

November 16, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Marta720203

I agree

November 16, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/5Q7oOK1I

I agree too!

November 16, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/LittleHobbit13

Agreed!

November 21, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Miraculous410

Agree agree agree agree agree agree. I agree too too also. WE ALL AGREE IT'S CHEATING (don't we guys?)

November 26, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/jelff2

If I were to do all this repetition in English, my native language, it would be “cheating.” But since I am doing it in my target language I view it as practice, and reinforcement.

The thing about languages, and brains, is that they are individual. No one person here in the forum can decide that what another person chooses to practice is worthless to the person doing the practice. This evaluation must be individual, and must also take into consideration the goals of the particular language learner.

I have a lot of experience with learning foreign languages, and I can say that most adult learners need a lot of repetition and review before they are able to internalize that foreignness and begin to use the new language with any degree of competence. But what exactly that degree of repetition is can only be properly gauged by the learner.

There are real cheaters abusing the points/leaderboard system, but they are not necessarily people who repeat stories and timed lesson practices.

December 7, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Kelikaku

@Miraculous410

... AGREE IT'S CHEATING ...

I would beg to differ. To drill the same phrases
over and over again is repetitive, but it is not
cheating, it is reinforcement. It is just reinforcing
what the user has learned. Not cheating.

Great perspective though. Thanks for the
input. Keep up the good work. בס״ד

November 29, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/_myr_

Drilling the same phrases over and over again is not cheating because it is (or has been) ALLOWED by Duolingo. Cheating is using bots/scripts/software to artificially boost XP without learning anything at all. Moreover, repetition is a proven learning strategy.

December 8, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/StephenCavan

Yes, it is allowed by Duo -- I get it. repetition is good. I started teaching ancient Greek at university in 1984 and I always stress (or should I say STRESS) daily repetition. The problem is that Duo has tossed 'stories' in the mix of regular exercises, has given those stories nearly double the XP value (I question the valuation), and ALLOWS them to be repeated too often and too quickly. I seriously doubt there is any pedagogical value repeating a 'story' in under 10 seconds, hundreds of times a day. Solutions: allow one repeat per day; reduce the value; allow the stories option in their own league (as it stands they offer a footrace to everyone, but some people are allowed to use motorcycles).

December 8, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/WINGSOFFIREFAN2

Thx! I always wanted to know how those worked.

November 15, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/IsobellaKD

the leader boards have definitely got me doing way more lessons each week but sometimes i do feel as though i'm not actually learning anything i'm just desperately trying to get into the top ten so i can move up. i used to write things down during lessons but i don't have time to do that when you're competing with people who have 3000XP? who actually has the time to do that many lessons

November 16, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/BlueVoodoo

"you're competing with people who have 3000XP? who actually has the time to do that many lessons"

I have time to do that many lessons. In fact, I do that much almost every week. Then I spend almost as much time on Memrise as I do Duolingo. I do at least 20 hours a week total practice, often more.

November 16, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/NovemberVee

I think it's different for people who have full time jobs, families, kids, grandkids, etc. I can barely fit in 10 hours a week, and I end up doing 20 minute (and sometimes 5 minute) sessions multiple times a day, and at night if I can't sleep. Consider yourself lucky, BlueVoodoo.

November 16, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/TeribleT

I do about an hour a day and get around 3k a week, but that's nothing when you have people farming points doing 2-4 k a day. I'm in fourth place, because I'm not cheating..

December 8, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/y.ademas

I'll roll with the punches, no matter what changes you make.
I like to repeat lessons and stories because it helps me retain the information.
The lessons I repeat several times are the ones I find most challenging; not the ones that are easy (for quick xp). None of that matters to me, anyway, because I opted out of the league in the first week. These days I warm up with Duo for about a half hour, then move on quickly to other resources.

November 16, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Briancrichardson

I agree! Here's a lingot!

November 16, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/ovae13

Thank you so much for clarifying how leaderboards and Xp work. Form my own experience I can tell hat leaderboards and daily streaks have reduced my motivation to learn drastically. Some days it was only about keeping the streak or trying to not getting degraded into a lower league. The focus on the actual learning of languages ​​was completely lost on these days. Learning should not be about getting in the top 10 of a leaderboard. I would appreciate the ability to deactivate the leaderboard. Thank you again.

November 16, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Idaellinor

Just dont punish users for wanting to do repetitions.

November 17, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/cjr37

I previously did a lot of repetitions in Italian. That was because I tested out to Level 5 expecting something when I got there. XP was awarded at that time. I have not recently being using repetitions, but noticed that after updating cracked skills that 0XP were promised once the crack was removed. I don't imagine that this affects the way I study. I do note the number of words in German, which rises steadily. In Italian, where I tested through, it rises slowly My experience would suggest advising testing through just to Levels 3 and 4.

November 25, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Syliane1

Hello,

I am one of these repeating the same skill not to farm XP or something so. My reason is to stay and find a way to continue. I became discouraged, many changes were disastrous for me. I will not detail them again. Repeating a skill was the last moment of hesitation, not leave, not yet. I suppose that i have to decide if i can stay, the interest is gone because of difficulties that Duo created in my curses. I learned a lot but something became to difficult. If i despoiled somebody, i am sorry

November 20, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/TheFlumen

Wonderful!

I heard that there is an achievement about winning the Diamond League. I use the computer, so I don't have it yet. Are you planning on keeping that achievement? Some people will go pretty far for it, and us regular users don't really want to earn 30,000+ XP, just for an achievement.

November 15, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/SeanColombo

There is really heightened competition right now, but as more people achieve that, the competition should calm down a little bit.

And yes, we're planning on bringing the new achievements to Android and Web soon (some people will see it on Android as early as next week).

November 15, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/TheFlumen

Okay! I've always been motivated with those achievements. When do you think they will be available on web? No pressure.

November 15, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/miaou-meow

yay :D

November 15, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/tonymulryan

i finished diamond league in 1st on sunday (24th nov) after working for hours but achievement was not recognised (diamond league and finishing 1st in a league awards still empty). I don't think i can bring myself to attempt that again :-(

November 27, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Piznale

I think you can! so there :-)

December 1, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/GlassSlippers

I easily made it up to the diamond league and have never seen (in my leagues) anyone even close to 30K points. That's ridiculous. The rare time someone may have done that was most likely by reading the same story 500 times, or using some other means which this post is about - They have ended most of that .

November 15, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/TheFlumen

That's weird. I remember two people reached 30,000 XP in my first diamond league, and there were a few people having 15,000-25,000 XP. Maybe as time passes, the leagues are getting less competitive.

November 15, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/GlassSlippers

Well, hopefully they have either started to really learn a language, or have moved on to Fortnight games. :)
Right now in my diamond league with only about two days left to go, the top guy has just 4K, and the rest of us are under 2K.

November 15, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/TheFlumen

Oh that's great! I'm going to go up to diamond league, and win! :D

November 15, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/GlassSlippers

Hey hope to see you in a league soon.
Enjoy !

November 15, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/venehisa

I like the experiment where you have to go back to repair the lessons.

November 15, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/hjpmorrow

Hey guys,

Thanks for this timely post. Earlier today after doing my first story and seeing the 24 XP I was just thinking of how powerful they would be in that race. I thought “perhaps I should save them” (I don’t know what it takes to make numero um in diamond league) but then it did occur to me: “if I am not doing it for fun what’s the point of the game?”

That got me thinking about leaderboards, they get me a little stressed when I am close to winning but close enough to be caught but ultimately that competition can be a powerful driver of behaviour and I have found it more effective than the old streaks system at getting me to get in (which I was also put off by streak freezes, I feel like it’s pay to win pay to cheat)

My previous engagement with Duolingo it would always end up dropping off for various reasons but I can see these improvements have made me certainly feel more engaged in duo the app and therefore helped me with Portuguese the language.

So just wanting to reflect to you guys that I appreciate what you’re doing to improve the game side too. Thanks team :)

November 15, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/JessicaDun8187

I would keep the XP on stories BUT after like 3 repeats on one story per 24 hours should be zero, and lower the XP to 15 or 10 for a perfect score.

November 24, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/E.T.Gregor

As someone on whom the leaderboards have a mostly negative effect, I'm extremely happy to hear you're working on an easy way to disable them.

November 16, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/MaDhyan

Likewise!

November 16, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Mito952871

How is repeated story defined? If it's repeated once per day? Once per week? Or ever? I like doing same story twice or 3 times in a row to better learn

November 16, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/SmashCookie

According to SeanColombo comment:

You will still be able to get some XP each day for a story you've done before. But basically, you'll get the XP only one time that day (so you can't just loop over the same Story repeatedly to farm XP). Hope that clears it up!

It's going to be once per day.

Brian mein Kerl, bist du ein Deutschspracher auch?

November 17, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Andreas83

Nitpicking: "Deutschspracher" is a wrong word. You may mean "Deutschsprecher" which would be technically correct, but that's not "a thing". "Bist du auch ein Sprecher der deutschen Sprache" would be more common, but overly formal or stilted.

And most commonly we would express your question like this:

"Sprichst Du auch Deutsch?" "Du sprichst auch Deutsch?" - less standard, but colloquial.

Just a friendly comment, I mean no offense by this clarification. "Deutsche Sprache schwere Sprache".

November 18, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/SmashCookie

Danke schön für ihre detaillierte Erklärung Andreas. Ich werde diesen Ausdruck öfter benutzen

November 18, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Mito952871

I tested during a week. Story XP didnt reset over a day, and not even over entering new leaderboard week

November 20, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Briancrichardson

Ich lerne Deutsch.

November 18, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/2_Paris_Soon

Sehr gut!!!

November 20, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Briancrichardson

Ich auch! Me too! Here is a lingot!

November 16, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/SmashCookie

Would you be so kind to answer me Sean?

  • Leagues and other changes are always thrusted upon us, we as a community have to deal with them if we don't like them, why don't you at least announce changes before implementing them?
  • Update threads like this are really useful because we don't have other mean to know what problems you're adressing and we don't know if any feedback is being received from the forums, can you do them more often, hire a community manager or at least improve the communication between the mods, contributors and Duo staff in order to have a more opportune communication and more organized ways to contribute?
  • I think there are and will be still shortcomings since you implemented leagues without addressing those potential problems and now you're trying to adjust the platform to solve them affecting others who didn't wanted to take part on them. Have you considered implementing the new platform vastly changing features more gradually or create more fair forms of competition revolving around completed lessons or skill test of the same tree and not xp? -I think xp is inconsistent and thus a more innacurate measure of learning.
  • Finally, do something with the shop already, we're getting more lingots for our effort but as other users have mentioned they don't have any use outside of the forums.

Having said all that, I thank you for the steps you guys are taking to address these issues and I hope you keep improving Duolingo to make it a great language learning platform.

November 17, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/daffodildaffy

I think it is too easy to get too far ahead with the stories. I think perhaps they could be locked until levels are completed on the learn section. Perhaps they could be linked to crowns. e.g. for every 10 crowns you could unlock a new story, and definitely reduce xp on repeated attempts of the same story. This would give a greater incentive to learn if there is a new story unlocked as a reward.

November 17, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/MiroslavOl3

I would like to share my opinion about XP, especially the timed practice, hoping that you are still interested in user feedback.

I am using the "default training" button in the Web App, not training on particular topics. I have found that "timed practice" is much more time-efficient way of earning XP while not necessarily being the most efficient way to learn something new. In particular, in timed practice, I get one XP point for every correctly answered question where questions are ranging from super-easy (select the correct picture) to relatively hard (translate a sentence into the foreign language). Therefore, the most time-efficient way for earning XP seems to be just super quickly answer the easy questions, and skip the hard ones.

Even if I am not intenionally doing that, timed practice puts less motivation on learning in two ways. First, the timer is on even between individual questions, so I want to quickly go to the other question instead of to study what was my mistake in the previous one (if it was incorrect). Second, contrary to the not-timed practice, I am not forced to eventually answer all questions correctly, so I don't need to actually know where my mistake was, or what the word that I did not remember was. This is in contrast with the not-timed practice where the incorrectly answered questions keep repeating until I get them right. And there is one last unfortunate fact about the timed practice -- if I run out of time, I cannot see the correct answer of the last question which is sometimes annoying, I actually got into habit of confirming incomplete answer second before time-out just to get this into the "review" list.

For these reasons, if I want to actually learn, I pick practice without timer. If I want to climb in the leaderboard table, I choose the timed one. If there is an intention to make learning appropriate to earning XP, the issues I mentioned should be addressed.

November 18, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Jenna0458

So it's all manipulation at the end of the day? It's hijacking somebodies dopamine receptors rather than convincing them using logic that you're providing a good learning experience.

November 18, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/sc_ville

that's exactly right, coupled with facile "metrics" to justify the practice...

November 18, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/HopeIsCrazy

Yep!!! Jenna0458, I think you hit the nail on the head. Getting near the top of the leaderboard, going up a league level, all those little not-quite-insignificant things give us little tastes of dopamine and oxytocin which in turn will make us want to practice more so we can have a little more happy-feel-good hormones. (Some people are gaming this learning system, while this learning system is gaming us!)

November 22, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/DavidHefer

The Health system will never cure the cancer of cheating. Please CANCEL THE LEAGUES.

November 30, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/OptionAl390804

I don't understand this reaction. You already have the option as an individual to not participate and to block league notifications. Other people want to participate in and improve leagues. Why do you think you have the right to tell those people what they can and cannot do?

November 30, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/DavidHefer

Why are you in Duolingo? To learn languages or to compete who is getting more xp by repeating trivial lessons for hours every week? The cheating infested Duolingo because of the Leagues. Competing is addictive. Many people cannot stop competing even if it is possible. Duolingo profits from it. And people spend hours in this weekly competition and cannot stop. Are you going to abandon Duolingo if there will be no leagues? And by the way, I have the right. Why do you think I don't?

November 30, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/MercedesWa51364

Hello,

I have noticed that you have reduced XP for repeated skill-practice and today you have even changed it to zero points. Well, I want to tell you one thing, I don't really care if you give me zero points for repeating the same exercise and you are wrong if you think I might be farming XP in a way that is not good for my learning.

I am a 72-year-old lady and when I get about 35 new adjectives to learn in a new exercise, I need more time to get them in my head and I have to repeat and repeat and repeat again as long as I need to get it right. You should be able to understand that at my age, if I decides to learn a new complicated language, it is not to try to cheat or compete with anyone else, other than myself.

Well, as you probably have already seen, I continue to repeat the same exercise even though I get zero points for it but I really hope you will not deactivate my account because I am not a cheater and I have to learn this language.

Have a nice day!

December 3, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/AndroidKanada

I agree that sometimes one needs to repeat things more often than the DL software thinks is needed. They won't deactivate your account - they're trying to remove the incentive for people to employ scripts (software) that simply run the same lesson over and over at high speed to generate points. They probably need to fine-tune the fix - perhaps give XP for one extra practice a day even when the skill is "at 100%".

Ultimately, XP is not my motivation, and probably not yours - it's learning the language.

December 3, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/MercedesWa51364

Thank you for your reply but are you one of the DL staff? For I would appreciate to get their answer, that's to say they won't remove my account. Have a nice day!

December 3, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/AndroidKanada

No, I'm not. You can tell by hovering the mouse over my photo: I'm just a supporter (PLUS means I liked DL so I paid for a subscription). Try hovering over the photo of the guy who posted the original comment.

Read the original comment at the top again - they will only ban you if you're completing lessons at an impossibly high speed (e.g. every few seconds). 200 XP/day is totally normal. But perhaps a staff member could chime in here to reassure you...

BTW, if you do want some points, practice skills you haven't practiced for a little while. It's a good thing to do, regardless of points.

December 3, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/MercedesWa51364

Thank you again. Well yes, I have plans to practice old skills because I noticed that I forgot some of the words I have learned but now is not the time. I know that the words are somewhere in my head and can be reactivated quite rapidly but my goal just now is to learn more words, put these words in my head as well and soon be able to read newspapers and look att Hungarian TV. The points were only good to myself, not to compete with others but as I said before with myself and to be able to see if I have done a great job today or not. Thanks again.

December 3, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Dr.ScottC.

If this were in place for the past year or so I would never have kept up with my language learning. I am glad cheaters are getting caught, and sure, ban them. But to kill off credit for repeat work when skill-and-drill learning is so much the heart of vocabulary learning and basic grammar learning is just a hard kick to the educational value of the whole site. There are nights where I just want to keep my streak alive and avoid a break in learning, so I'll do a bunch of basic work to keep my skills alive. And now I'm told the most common way of acquiring a language is gaming the system? Well maybe the system shouldn't be put ahead of learning a language.

Here is what I suggest: let people practice all they want and get full credit. Just alter how much credit you get for doing old work. If you are on concept 8 and you want to go back and do concepts 6 and 7, let the person earn as many 20 points as they want. That's how you learn a language: repeated practice. But if they want to go back and relearn the alphabet at level 1, then make a practice only worth 2 points (or something like that.) And let them earn all the two points at a time that they want.

This would mean you'd have to get rid of the levels-going-stale nonsense too. We are actually forced to go back and retake alphabet lessons even deep into the course because we supposedly don't practice that enough. It's just silly anyway.

December 4, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/YaBruh

What does the chest right beside my XP chart do????? I want to know!

November 15, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/SeanColombo

The chest above your XP chart on web is the Daily Goal chest. Basically, it'll tell you how much XP you've earned in the given day and how much you need to earn to get your daily goal. Once you hit your daily goal you get to unlock that chest at the end of a lesson.

November 15, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/BossElijah

Is that a new update, because I did my first lesson today and it gave me 2 Lingots at the end?

Edit: I have got it, but my friend doesn't have it, and he's really angry at me.

November 15, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/YaBruh

It doesn't unlock though!

November 15, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/WINGSOFFIREFAN2

It means that if you finish in that position, you get a lingot prize. Right now I am in the Sapphire league and if I am in 1st wen I finish, then I get a 30-lingot prize.

November 15, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/APRILBROWN4

Yabruh is referring to a different chest WINGSOFFIREFAN2

APRILBROWN4

November 15, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/WINGSOFFIREFAN2

Oh sorry

November 15, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/APRILBROWN4

You can see the chest they are talking about on your learn page - Your Progress - Daily Goal. (Noted: this may not be available to all users)

EDIT for Learn link: https://www.duolingo.com/learn

APRILBROWN4

November 15, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/WINGSOFFIREFAN2

Can you give me the link? I can't find it.

November 15, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/WINGSOFFIREFAN2

I meant the thing that tells about the treaseure chest, not the learn link. But I guess that if you have already done the daily goal, it does not show the chest? I don't see it in the learn page. (I know what it is, @The-smart-Dude. )

November 15, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Timo-opettelee

We’ve observed that learners who are engaged in Leaderboards are spending significantly more time on task, studying with more frequency and, as a result, displaying better results in their target language.

I'm curious about this. How do you measure engagement in leaderboards as there isn't much to do in that view? Is it how often user clicks to open the board, or something else?

November 15, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/SeanColombo

We measure engagement based on how much someone looks at the leaderboard. For measuring the learning impact of Leaderboards, the most important data came from the A/B tests when we compared users who were eligible for Leaderboards vs those who didn't have the feature yet.

November 16, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/sc_ville

Are you sure the "better results" don't directly correlate to only practicing well-known skills to optimize XP-gathering? I've since opted out of the leagues, but when I was in them, I only ever worked on skills i could easily breeze through without making errors--never on anything that might require me to think a little, that might take time to write out, or that I might possibly get wrong. So naturally I must have appeared to be "displaying better results" compared to when I was actually challenging myself. I'd be interested to hear if stats are taking that into account.

November 16, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/AnjaliNoronha

Where are the tests? And perhaps you need to compare those who have the feature but don't work too hard at it while maintaining their streak and continuity. I think there are a couple of problems with the group's your comparing

November 21, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Amica_Joy

@SeanColombo: Thank you for listening to us, for communicating with us, and for your hard work. It's really nice that you shared with us what has been already implemented to address users' complains and comments and what you are planning to do soon. I hope it will pacify some hot emotions that were expressed here, in the DL forum. We do really appreciate it this amazing platform.

Happy coding!

With huge gratitude.

November 15, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/FlinkPoyd

I have a couple of questions about the leaderboards and thought that this would be an appropiate place to ask them. I am using the web version. Firstly, there is a cross at the top right hand side of the leaderboard. What happens if you click this? Does is cancel the leaderboard? I wanted to try clicking it, but it occurred to me that it might cancel the leaderboard permanently and I might not get it back. So what happens when you click it? Also, if you quit a leaderboard, do you disappear from the leaderboard for the others who are there? I mean, does it mean they can no longer see you and you are no longer part of the competition? The leaderboard creates pressure and I find it hard to ignore, ideally I would like to hide it from view and just look at it once in a while out of curiosity to see which leaderboard I am currently in.

November 16, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/prky

Lately, I have been working on Arabic, and practicing skills that are gold, in addition working on new skills. As this is an entirely different alphabet, I really appreciate the xps when reviewing old lessons. I hope that feature will remain.

November 16, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Cajuntinman53

Yes please change around the answers on the stories. I do like to challenge myself on how better I understand the stories after learning more. It's a great way to test my progress.

November 17, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/TeribleT

What about people resetting languages daily and weekly? Why has this not been fixed?

November 17, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/SeanColombo

Doing placement tests only gives up to 100xp (or 150, I don't recall) now, so we've found there are very few people resetting their courses anymore.

November 17, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/sc_ville

Rather than going for the placement test XP, it's actually much faster to just constantly reset your target language's "reverse " tree and repeatedly do the 5 skills at the top of the tree. There are only 7 or so questions per lesson, vs. the usual 20, plus most of them are pictures--but you still get the same 10 points plus 5 bonus. In fact, it's probably not too complicated to do that in any language that uses the Roman alphabet. In short, there are plenty of ways to exploit the XP system that don't require bots or scripts, just time and limber fingers. It seems pretty disingenuous for Duo to claim that people are learning much more under this system.

November 17, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/TeribleT

Sean, please look at my comment here https://forum.duolingo.com/comment/32493126 and explain this user please. 50 xp a shot, constantly resetting languages.

November 20, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/SeanColombo

Interesting! Responded in that thread.

November 20, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/JacobMR24

If anyone really cares that much about winning the leagues I question if they're actually here to learn. This site should be about self growth and learning, not about earning XP. I'd rather see focus on creating more social options to connect with native speakers of other languages as opposed to creating a meaningless competition.

Si a alguien de verdad le importa tanto ganar las ligas, me pregunto si en realidad está aquí para aprender. Este sitio debe tratarse de aprender en lugar de ganar más XP. Prefería si Duolingo se enfocara en crear más opciones sociales para que podamos conectar con hablantes nativos de otros idiomas en vez de tener competencia.

November 17, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/HopeIsCrazy

People come here in the first place to learn a language other than their own. But then things like leaderboards show up which turns part of learning into a competion. And like anything competition, cheaters gonna cheat! As far as helping you learn your target language, the leaderboards help some people to work longer at learning. The leaderboards are to provide one with motivation to learn more. and people like to be near the top of the board because even tiny little wins cause ones body to let loose its 'feel good' hormones, like dopamine and oxytocin. And who doesn't like to feel good? (rhetorical question)

November 22, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/5Q7oOK1I

Well after just 10 hours in my new diamond league the #1 person Daniel already has 4500 points and #2 is at 3000. This is just unbelievable - people are still finding ways to cheat. It is so disappointing.

November 18, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/SeanColombo

I checked into these users. #1 has spent about 7 of those hours doing various things and they don't appear to be cheating... they're just REALLY into it. Some of it might be repeating Stories, but it's hard to tell from my view if it's the same story (without more legwork). #2 (Gakro...) Has been doing a ton of activity, but a lot of it is skill practice, so they're one of the people whose experience will be fixed when the experiments for their platform go from "rolled out" (some people have them) to "launched" (everyone on the platform has them).

It's always surprising to me that so many of these people aren't cheating, but a lot of them are "gaming" it and we'll be serving those users so much better when they now have their increased level of activity, but aren't incentivized to do things that aren't as good for learning.

November 18, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Boss-Elijah

That does not appear to be cheating!

November 19, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/cartergraysons

"We’ve observed that learners who are engaged in Leaderboards are spending significantly more time on task, studying with more frequency and, as a result, displaying better results in their target language. Much better results."

What a lie that is. On another note, I am pissed that XP is capped still, but I do like that you are working on fixing things. Thank you for all of the clarifications and notices on updates and future ideas!!

November 18, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/biswajitparashar

There are accounts clocking over 40 points per minute. This is not humanly possible. Are these accounts rigged or robots or composite accounts (single accounts shared by multiple people simultaneously to clock points). Please could you clarify?

November 19, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/BluePrinc

Namaste, yes it must be a cheating procedure.

November 20, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Boss-Elijah

If you do a lot of lessons in a lot of tabs in the same time in the browser, you can make it look like you earn 15XP per 5 seconds and that's not cheating. I don't know if that was what you were thinking about.

November 19, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/AnjaliNoronha

No that's not humanly possible. And the thousands of points being clicked in a day are definitely sine kind of rigging or useless practice - if you compare points and crowns you find a terribly skewed relationship

November 19, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/HopeIsCrazy

I dont understand how anyone could be putting in answers on multiple tabs in the same browser. Even if there's 10 tabs open with duolingo, I can still only look at and answer one sentence at a time, thus ignoring the other 9 tabs.

November 22, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/HopeIsCrazy

I said I dont understand how it is even possible to do what Pro-Dude said, regarding how some people are cheating. Rather than down voting my comment, if you know what he is talking about, how about explaining it? That you actually be helpful, probably to more people than just me.

November 27, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/ellie323293

I found that repeating stories multiple times really improved my understanding of the languages I am learning.

November 28, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Stevalion

Me too

November 28, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/ReggaeRay

Leaderboards have helped me figure out how to go back and forth between older and newer lessons. I kind of like the competition, but I'm not going to fret over it!

November 29, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/WVJoy

I wish there were points for reviewing vocabulary words. I also wish there were ways to practice conjugating verbs. I know that's not how Duolingo is envisioned, but it would honestly be helpful.

November 29, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/LadyLaura88

That's actually a really good idea. I feel that ANY practice should be rewarded somehow.

December 3, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/damanatidis00

I'm so competitive on the leaderboards anytime someone inches towards me I sit for hours during my cigarette breaks doing lessons or practice. In my opinion, since I'm learning Chinese which is extremely difficult, the practice is very helpful even though its not "new" lessons, its reinforcing characters that I'd otherwise forget and I dont consider myself to be gaming the system.

November 30, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Andrew316818

When somebody tries to catch up to me, like right now, and I'm in 2nd place, which I am, I look at it and just farm XP for hours until they get nowhere near the amount I have!

November 30, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/BaggyT

I've read so many comments about repetition not being proper study... it's ridiculous. I find that regularly going back over the basics only improve my skills. It was through repeating a load of basic lessons that I finally got to grips with different between nominative and accusative case in German. The XP and a substantial increase in leaderboard rank was a nice reward for my hard work!

December 5, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/TeribleT

I don't know about other comments, I know what I wrote, and cramming is not in long-term memory, it's not effective and it's not efficient. Repetition is, when it's spaced. https://www.abc.net.au/news/2016-10-29/why-cramming-for-exams-the-night-before-rarely-works/7974910

https://www.fluentu.com/blog/srs-spaced-repetition-language-learning/

https://qz.com/1211561/how-to-learn-a-language-use-spaced-repetition/

The studies have shown this.

December 5, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/BaggyT

A couple of comments: 1. People are all different and learn in different ways. 2. Articles (academic, news, etc.) represent generalisations, of which there are always exceptions. 3. How much 'space' is required between repetitions? Again, this will vary from person to person.

I am well aware of how I learn. I have incorporated methods of memorisation into my teaching career, helping many students to understand themselves and how they learn. We are all different. Generalisations may be helpful to a majority, but not everyone. And in teaching, we are expected to care about every student and their individual learning capabilities.

December 5, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Mrs.H349723

I couldn’t agree more. I didn’t take the time to read the links given I’m already aware of what the "studies" show. Personally, I find that this daily repetition in the way I need it converts the short term memory over to long term memory. The studies are a generalization and too many people look at them at face value without evaluating how the study was conducted. Given how many people study in the same manner I do with great success, I don’t put much stock in what the studies show.

December 5, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/MercedesWa51364

Thanks so much for these links. Very interesting even though I partly already knew about it.

A few years ago I saw a French TV program about the learning process and some researchers did a study and found out that if writing the words by hand, it helps to remember the spelling of the words and how to form each letter.

It is understandable if one understands how the brain works. I mean what one knows and understands today because it's so much more about the brain that we don't know.

December 5, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/ElaineWill18

I revisit stories 2 - 3 times to be sure I get the hang of them and fully understand them. Sometimes they are in advance of the level I have reached in the lessons, so need a bit more thought. so, please do not go overboard in limiting XPs for those of us who are slower than others and need a little bit of repetition. I spend about 1 - 2 hours a day most days, and am at a loss to understand how to get anywhere near the totals some people get to get into the top three and move up to the next level. If I work hard I can get about 1600 to 2000 maximum - these people are hitting the 5000 to 6000 XPs. I don't know where the other postees are, but I am in Obsidian and I can't see me moving out of it in the near future if I need excessive XPs.

December 1, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/StephenCavan

Perhaps it is too difficult to implement on your system, but it seems to me there is an imbalance in the ways people can gain XP, and this imbalance might the main reason for frustration with the leaderboard system. I enjoy competition, but I just had someone add over 1500 XP points in about 30 minutes. Clearly, this is not done by completing the type of exercise that I do. I reported this as suspicious, but nothing happened, so I assume it is legal. It seems to me the leaderboard system is rather like holding a bicycle race, but allowing anyone to use a motorcycle if they wish. So the leaderboard is pointless.

December 1, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/_myr_

1500 XP in 30 minutes is 50 XP per minute which is not possible within what's allowed by Duolingo (you can't do a story that fast, let alone two stories, and the same is true for the lessons), and also not humanly possible (no human being would be able to be that focussed for 30 minutes straight). It is suspicious and it's good that you reported it. It is my impression that reports are taken seriously, even though it seems like nothing is happening.

December 1, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/hugh156553

seems pointless and stupid to cheat.

December 1, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/BaggyT

And cheating should be easy to spot. A little piece of code that analyses how much XP each user is obtaining over a period of time shouldn't be too difficult. Plus those who earn a set amount of XP at very regular intervals are likely cheating too. It ought to be very easy to catch them.

December 5, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/ElaineWill18

If the leader board system operated per language there would be less opportunity for cheating, in that moving up on a language needs more time as the complexity increases. Thus XPs are harder to get and require more time. Should someone then start additional languages at the basic level to whizz through XPs - the XPs would only be applied to that language's board. For those of us who are studying one or two languages, we can see how we are progressing per language which is what is important.

December 1, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/LadyLaura88

The lack of XP when I repeat a lesson really bothers me. Often, as I do a lesson, I get something wrong. I then go back to repeat the lesson to see if I can do better than I did before. But now I get nothing for it, even though I AM in the process of still learning.

Look, I get that there are people that cheat the system. I've seen some pretty ridiculous scores on the leaderboard. But at the same time, it seems wrong to punish everyone else. If you are practicing, you should be able to get points for it, period.

December 3, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/DaveWilson733333

I do the same, after completing my tree, now I'm going back through and doing the practice of each skill. If I don't get 100%, i repeat it. Now today I see that I get zero XP for a repeat attempt. While I don't really care about XP, it is a demotivator for me to keep trying that skill that day...

December 4, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/BaggyT

I'm the same! And now I'm also demotivated. I'm not even sure how long I can keep this streak going. I might try another way to learn a language.

December 5, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Frederick-AtG

Listen Duolingo, whilst some of us do not care about the leaderboards, we still need to go back and practice fully leveled but neglected skills. It's nice to get some recognition for that effort. Instead of IMMEDIATELY jumping down to zero on the second pass through the skill, why not use a diminishing returns approach? Draw down to zero of five consecutive practices? Would that not be more measured than allowing XP only for a single revision pass?

December 3, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/7ga4Ktv4

why the hell are exp required doing the general practice get nerfed.. why seriously WHY????

December 3, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/y.ademas

Awful changes for people who have opted out of the leagues.
You seem to becoming more and more focused on the leagues and adjusting the learning program to those who are gaming the system, with little regard for the rest of us.

December 4, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/BaggyT

Making Duolingo like a game was one of their selling points, and it really is a great motivator. With these new changes, I'm just not really bothered. As someone who likes to practise the skills I already have, only moving on when I feel comfortable, I can only really get 620 XP per day (assuming I get 20 XP per skill I practise, which I don't!). That's nothing compared with a person who has many more skills unlocked and can get over 1000 XP per day. I don't have a hope in the leaderboards anymore. As such, I'm only motivated to keep my streak going, not to aim high on the leaderboards.

December 5, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/DeniseBake12

I am a user who is doing skill Practice to improve my Spanish. I have found that the reduction of XPs to only 10 points per topic per day is counterproductive and violates the learning principles informing Duolingo. We must repeat the lessons to learn the language to begin with. Practice depends on the same process of repetition. I used to focus on one topic per day for 100 to 150 points. The next day I moved on to a different topic. Now I’m scattered all over and getting confused as I switch from topic to topic without mastering any of them. It’s the Leagues that are the problem. Get rid of the Leagues or the cheaters and let those of us who want to really learn the language through Practice do so. Why are we all being punished because a few people are so competitive they had to resort to cheating?

December 6, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/AtomicChoc1

Thanks for being transparent, these are good changes

November 15, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/o0oKrishnao0o

Block all cheaters from the leaderboards for a week, repeat offender a month, then a year then 5 years etc. Those who are "gaming" aren't using the leaderboards for their intended purpose and blocking them may change their behaviour without bricking their account.

November 16, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Marta720203

There are valid reasons to redo lessons and stories which are not gaming the system. I had no knowledge of German when I began duolingo. When I did stories I did not have enough knowledge to really understand them. I got things right by guessing. I now go back and redo them. As I do this I pay attention and look for what I am currently learning. I will go back to the stories now and look for the possessives or other words that I have learned from subsequent lessons. It motivates me when I redo a story and feel I truly understand it. I also redo basics. I am learning possessives and redoing past lessons help me to remember gender of things. I would be fine if no more points were given to me for redoing stories.

Thank you for this wonderful learning tool.

November 16, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Briancrichardson

I agree, redoing stories and lessons is a great tool to help you remember. I have two books of vocabulary words that I've memorized, however, it seems that simply going over the same story a number of times is more effective for me. Personally, since XP exists, I'd like to get XP for going over the lessons again.

Here is a lingot!

November 16, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Avi_an_Avian

I agree but there are some things that aren't practicing in any way. For example I once hit my multi clicker on a story and because I felt it would be a waste not to do so just used ctrl + tab and the clicker to do a dumb number of stories in one go. Now I didn't get them all right, the thing shuffles where the answers are, but I got way more exp than I deserved for doing basically one story.

November 17, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Marta720203

Thank you !

November 16, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/TeribleT

Then put languages with stories in their own leagues. Most languages do not have them.

November 17, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Kdv90271

Check out rossy torres score today 11/16/19. 21k? I am at the diamond level and have achieved that with less than 9k point for each level by working hard and learning and yes the leaderboards are obviously being abused. Please no comments from haters they will not be responded to. I just want fair credit for fair and very hard work.

November 17, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Avi_an_Avian

I have a few questions about how this will work. I along with many other users just blocked the leagues element when it started so that we simply couldn't see because it didn't determine my movements. I have my goal set and I always reach that generally through global practice. Will Global Practice in anyway be effected? Will there be a threshold for skill practice i.e. can't get ex for more than 10 practices a day? If a user opts out of leagues (with your system not ad hoc blocking) will the way they earn exp be effected? Couldn't you just cap how much exp a person can earn in an hour or make it diminish? Lastly this may be strange but couldn't you move everyone who earns massive exp into a league of their own? As shame league or quarantine then have them compete on the best cheating tactics.

November 17, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Biocin1

Great to get some feedback. After my recovery period, when I hopefully will be stronger; less tired, I intend to go back into my leaderboard, especially after the corrections!!! SUGGESTION: Sometimes I forget to check my finished answers when Word Choosing. Sometimes, when I TAP a word, it stays in the ‘block’ and I don’t see it...after I see RED, I catch it...an you add some audio or visual Aid? Pad uses a click when I type and it works great. Thank you for letting us know we are not just paddling upstream here! (Where is my Owlets’ SPACE SUIT.....[hope, hope] )

November 17, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Larkspire

Sometimes, when I TAP a word, it stays in the ‘block’ and I don’t see it...after I see RED, I catch it

I've noticed that there seems to be a delay of about a second during which you can't select another word from the word bank, or in tap-the-pairs exercises. Maybe that's contributing to your problem.

November 18, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Graham_Jessop

Without the necessary two way verbal interaction, I use the stories repeatedly to try understand the nuances within the the verbal statements. Unfortunately a number in the German Course have glaring mistakes!! My granddaughter speaks fluently in German and consistently points out these errors!

November 18, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Lalamer2

I DEFINITELY put in much more practice this week because there was someone who was also VERY competitive. It is not at all ineffective practice. I wake each day with new vocab swimming around in my brain. I have also seen my nephew make more progress in a month than he did in 2 years of daily classes. BUT if someone cheats who is in competition with me (in order to quickly earn points), I would be EXTREMELY annoyed after having put in so much practice during the week.

November 18, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/BaggyT

Yes, there's a big difference between those who spend a couple of hours to gain 1000 XP and really get to grips with the vocab (I've done this some days, especially when there's a competitive person in the leaderboards), and someone who blatantly cheats by getting 1000 XP in a matter of minutes.

With these changes, I have no motivation to aim for 1000 XP, or to spend a couple of hours on the days when I have a couple of hours to spare.

December 5, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/MichaelOKe448031

I found the leagues to cause me to focus on gaining points and by that I would speed through the lessons just to gain points. Thereby passing by the important element: learning to understand and speak the language. So I opted out of the Leaderboards altogether. Is Duo in some way making money from all of us learners staying on for long periods making Duo look good instead of everyone learning languages.?

November 18, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/cartergraysons

I opt out too but I found myself (I still am) in gold leauge and not happy about that at all.

November 18, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/dpatkat

Thank you for this post. I originally went full on trying to (legit) gain XPs to be uptown. Got burned out and now I only occasionally check my position because I am competitive. But when I see I'm not learning ( being able to actually recall, use what i'm learning) I refocus on learning.

November 19, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/AnjaliNoronha

Thanks for a detailed reply. However, I would like to still submit a number of issues which lead to an urgent need to move out of leagues and inti mitra productive systems. While I find the streak encouragement useful for learning - this is of no value on leader boards - I do not find any aspect of leader boards useful for learning. Because if you look at the first three of the later leagues you'll find much slower new crowns than others. Unnecessary repetition of old lessons or stories is what is getting the xps fir moving ahead fast leading to very unhealthy competition. 2. The leagues are not of same language and have no way of allowing people to connect with native speakers. Everyone knows that interaction with others on language is crucial to learning and mastering a language. But this is disabled in Duolingo inspite of Duolingo having the potential to allow and facilitate this. 3. There are strong detrimental effects of leaderboards. The people who gain points in thousands di si by unnecessary practice and force this on others as when you're in a league you want to move ahead - don't like being left behind. This skews time utilisation and mental stress on all. Suggestions for alternatives 1. Do away with leader boards - cost the leaderboard if you want to continue - those who want to join the leaderboard system must be made to pay. 2. Instead, add a few features in your analytics and may be added some incentives fir then. A. You already give us total xps and streak days. You could add tracking of daily xps in a graph form. And make it available and may be give a few gems or lingots fir those who earn 300 or 500 xps a day consistently over a week. This way you give each participant their own leaderboard which encourages them to better themselves. B. Find a way to connect native speakers into groups of 5 or ten and encourage them to form their own groups. In aware of potential dangers of cyber harassment happening but there must be sine agencies that could help in this. But please, please do away with leader boards they have become very stressful - even ignoring then once they're there is stressful!!!

November 19, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Briancrichardson

I am sorry @SeanColombo, I like Duolingo in many ways, and I appreciate your communicating with us, however, after reflecting on this for the last few days my view has changed a bit.

I think it isn't reasonable for you as a representative of Duolingo to speak negatively about people "gaming" the system when it was you who transformed a great language learning app into a game. Undoubtedly, you are exploiting natural human social and competitive tendencies to get people to seek more and more XP and higher and higher ranks on the leaderboards. By the same token, it is entirely natural for humans to try to find ways to "game" their experiences. It is normal for humans to seek to manipulate the outcome of events that we see as important to us. That is how we as a species have survived and shaped our world through the ages.

I don't think you can have one without the other. The more you make this a game, and the more you are successful at getting people to aggressively participate in this game, the more people will find ways to score XP with the most efficiency possible.

I now feel that I would be happy if you "nerfed" all means of getting extra XP by "farming", or whatever else you think people are doing that is inappropriate. When you do that you will free people up to make what might be better choices with their language learning time. Don't be surprised if that doesn't include as much time with Duolingo.

November 20, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Spechhioestelle

Is it fair for those without stories to compete against those who do have stories?

November 21, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/HopeIsCrazy

I wonder if they considered seperate leaderboards for seperate languages. I know some people, myself included, are working on more than just one language tree at any given time so they'd have to have a seperate multi-lingual leaderboard in that case. They could have a leaderboard folks learning 2 languages, another leaderboard for those using 3 languages, etc. There's no way to make everything 'fair' for everybody but I think this could make it considerably more fair than how it's been.

November 22, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Briancrichardson

It sounds unfair to me! Have a lingot!

November 21, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/jacek164865

Please give users option to choose bigger number of lessons. With reduced number of lessons I don't feel that I learn anything and doing practice doesn't really help. I need more challenging lessons. And also it doesn't make sense to give XP points only for one practice of one subject per day, when user disabled leaderboards.

November 21, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/GDub
  • 1390

Why don't people realize that they don't have to work so hard in the Diamond League? What's the point of thousands of XPs? There's nowhere to go. You made it Diamond Leaguers. Chill out.

November 22, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/okeygo

I really do not get what is all the hype about cheaters, I am here to learn/introduce/review languages I am interested in. If some people want to teach, that is just pathetic, Instead of banning them I would give them permanent million XP or infinite so they can brag wit( themselves.

I prefer Duolingo developers spending their valuable time fixing the AI behind tests so the sentences are more realistic, improving the language acquisition itself, proposing new kinds of tools inside the tree like hand writing when it is Chinese, Arabic and others, so you know if you learnt the strokes and writing...

It is truly annoying to see these posts about leaderboards, who really cares if our goal is to have a tool to help us learn and improve.

That being said, thanks Duo for this amazing gift.

November 23, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/DebraGrace3

The leader boards are the worst part of Duolingo. It's not been helpful as it's clearly easy to abuse.

November 24, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Larry526988

I see a few people commenting that the scammer/cheaters/gamers are ruinning duolingo. I am glad this is generating so much discussion, but I respectfully disagree. The gamers are taking nothing from anyone except maybe themselves. Empty victories on games set up to help motivate learning are like stolen participation certificates. What is the point?

November 26, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Wolfiedawolf

Well I would try new stories, and not repeat old ones, but I finished them all...But on the later ones they are harder and I do like repeating them for pronunciation and listening. I won't do them if I can't get xp for the wretched leader boards. Just to stay afloat in them with others having really high scores is hard and I can only devote so much time to it daily. For the leader boards I was disappointed that we couldn't have our friends in the same group and I messaged this early on when the leader boards started. We could use more stories to learn with especially for listening. I hope you don't totally nerf repeating stories. I do what I can with the time I have. I find listening and understanding sentences at this point is key to my progression in Spanish...Listening to the way questions are formed is important for me. I can't seem to 'get' which words go where in questions...So listening and seeing them in the stories is a big help to understanding my problem. Thank you for all you try to keep improving Duo! I am very grateful!

November 27, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Wolfiedawolf

I had no idea people were scripting just to make points in the Leader boards! And to only prove how "smart you are"??? Well an old adage is: Cheaters never prosper! and for learning a language...how does scripting or botting help you LEARN??? I hope Duo staff can do something...so the rest of us who are serious don't have to try and beat bots and scripts just to stay in the league we advanced too. Good luck Duo and keep up the good work that many of us DEPEND upon and use and APPRECIATE!

November 27, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/arkayy18

I was surprised there were cheaters here. Almost every mobile game or anything with a competitive nature has cheaters, but there were incentives for being on top. However, the only incentive I see on duolingo is the lingots. But lingots are plenty and easy to get so their value isn't enticing.

November 27, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/connor676979

why do people even cheat on a self improvement language learning app lmfao that is sad.

November 27, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/holgerburg2

It's funny how people argue that they do not like leaderboards but at the same time it seems impossbile for them to just ignore it ;D

November 27, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Maz346664

what does nerfing and UI meaning

November 27, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/arkayy18

"Nerfing" means to reduce the effectiveness of a thing. e.g. (if you play video games) making a strong weapon weaker. Or (in laymen's) turn down the pressure of a hose.

"UI" means User Interface. Basically, what you see when you access a website. The layout, the links, the art, design, etc.

November 27, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Master_Doug

Some things are obvious, but to cheat, there must first be rules. Where are the rules posted?

November 27, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/OptionAl390804

Don't try to lawyer your way out of this one. Utilizing an automated script to milk points from a single story hundreds of times per minute is not legitimate under any conception of Duolingo's mission.

November 27, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/JC1jA9

What is the point in using a script to get first in a league?

You don't get anything besides lingots, which are near worthless after a while. You don't learn the language, which is why people are here. You don't win any real money or prizes unless I missed a memo.

If anything you hurt yourself by not being able to track your progress compared to others with XP gained.

Who cares if you are first? You can say "I have a pen" in Spanish after 6 months? Good job, pat yourself on the back.

At least you were always 1st in league.

November 27, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/BethWelch3

How about closing this discussion that has over 400 posts and thus is hard to sort?And then making a new one that identifies what the changes are to repeating stories, timed exercises, and such.

November 28, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/solarisfan

I don't get why would anyone cheat in a web page dedicated for language learning. It makes zero sense, or I am missing something.

November 28, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Sfw0
  • 236

I've learned quite a bit from reading this post and the 500+ comments. For example, I didn't realize it was even possible to repeat the stories, let alone earn XP for doing so. I just went back and tried a couple in French and found that it was very helpful to listen to them again in French, which I have only recently began to study. I was even more surprised to find the XP value was the same as for the first time I did the story. Since I have withdrawn from the leaderboard, the XP values don't really matter to me, but it is nice to get some encouragement to get this valuable practice, since I still seem to like to compete with myself.

November 28, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Andrew316818

Honestly, I think some people who are learning 30 languages on Duo are legit about their XP. I mean, that's a lot of XP because it's a lot of languages if you get my drift.

November 30, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/OptionAl390804

If they've been on Duolingo for a couple years. But it is literally impossible to accrue 1,000s of points per second without the aid of cheating scripts, which is what often happens on the league boards. Those people aren't learning anything.

November 30, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Andrew316818

im talking about people who have a whole bunch of it already though.

November 30, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/TeribleT

Andrew, some are, some aren't. I have some in my friends list, so I can see them in the friends league , doing 1000-2,000 xp a day, and I know they aren't cheating (some I know off Duolingo and they work (imho really boring jobs) where there is a lot of downtime and/or have long commutes on public transportation. Others you can see are definitely cheating. You just put their username where username is @ duome.eu/USERNAME , then click on RAW, and see how much xp and at what time.

December 1, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/OptionAl390804

Not really relevant to the topic of this post since only the points accrued in the current week appear in the leaderboards, but okay.

November 30, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Andrew316818

I mean, I'm in second place though (Yipee!) and the first place has over 4000 XP, but they have a bunch in each language, and i know them, and they are not very tech smart, so i know they havn't used any hacks.

November 30, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/_myr_

4,000 XP in six days is not at all remarkable. 9,000-12,000 XP is about the maximum range that a person might reasonably achieve in a week. I have competed against people who achieved scores in this range, but it took them seven days to get there. I would guess that most Duolingo users don't know how to use scripts/bots/software to cheat. I know that these things exist, but I haven't got a clue about how they actually work. You will know someone is cheating when it happens because it is so unbelievable. Getting 8,000 XP in a few hours is a good example. I was #1 in my League with 7.4K until yesterday, when someone who had not even been in the top five (maybe not even in the top ten) sailed past me and went on to earn another 16.8K in seven hours - a steady 20 XP every 30 seconds. It is impossible for a human being to be that focussed for seven hours straight without a break - only a script or bot can be that consistent. I have seen less dramatic cheating - 9K in 1.5 days - and more dramatic cheating - 35K in a couple of days. Hopefully, the Duolingo programmers will soon find a way to identify and weed out the cheaters before they can cause problems for normal users.

November 30, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/OptionAl390804

I don't know the extent that Duolingo wants to go in customizing this, but they could easily offer the possibility of placing people into different leagues by their practice history. I mean, it makes sense to put you in a group with other people whose study habits are more like your own. There is no way in hell that I'm going to spend that much time every day on Duolingo. So although I don't begrudge other people, it does make it a little less fun for me to "compete" in the same pool of people with radically different study goals. For me, I think an hour a day is more than enough. For my personal style, psychology or whatever, I'm just not NOT going to retain any more than that.

November 30, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/_myr_

I agree that people using scripts/bots aren't learning anything. I just wanted to add that it's not always "1,000s of points per second". It can be smaller amounts of XP in larger time increments - e.g., 20 XP every 30 seconds for seven hours straight without a break = 16.8K in seven hours. It's not possible for a human being to do this without a break, no matter how many languages they are learning or how many windows they have open at the same time. You can look at raw data in duome.eu/USERNAME - for yourself and other people. If you think someone in your league is cheating, you can report them. My experience is that the Duolingo team take such reports seriously and will deactivate users who cheat.

November 30, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Diego636996

I love the competition personally, I was surprised when i joined duolingo there were different "ranks!" It really motivates me to continue to do lessons everyday, every time i get a notification saying I lost my spot I get surged with a rush to learn!!

November 30, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Andrew316818

pretty much me

November 30, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Andrew316818

Honestly, I just want this day to be over so I can collect my chest. It's the first time I've been in 2nd place, so I'm really excited.

November 30, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/_myr_

I don't know if anyone has noticed, but the Achievements have been changed. Notably, there are three new badges: (1) Champion - "You made it to the Diamond League", (2) Winner - "Finish #1 in your leaderboard", and (3) Legendary - "Finish #1 in the Diamond League". The Duolingo management itself is encouraging competition, but there is a lot they need to do to make the competition fair and to make the new badges achievable for everyone.

(1) Currently, if someone is aspiring to achieve Champion, Conquerer, or Legendary, the best chance they have to do that is to leverage whatever Duolingo allows in order to earn XP, including "gaming the system" by repeating lessons and Stories, which until recently has been allowed without limitation. Even with the new limitation of going through the Stories once a day, if you are studying three languages that have Stories, you could go through the Stories in all three languages once a day to maximize XP. It might make sense for every story to have the same XP value as a completed lesson (15 XP) and then not limit how many times they can be repeated, because some people like repeating Stories for other reasons than maximizing XP.

(2) It's not fair for people who are studying languages without Stories to be competing with people whose languages do have Stories. If it would be possible, users should be grouped into the weekly League leaderboards according to whether or not the languages they primarily study have Stories, as other commenters here have suggested. But actually, this wouldn't be necessary if Stories had the same XP value as lessons.

(3) Grouping of users into weekly leaderboards should group users according to the average time spent and/or XP earned per week over the last month, so that users with similar histories would compete against each other.

(4) There are individuals who are using scripts/bots/software to artificially earn XP without even looking at any lessons themselves. In my League this week, one individual gained 16.8K by running their software for seven hours straight without a break - earning 20 XP every 30 seconds (=300 XP in 15 minutes). This is cheating. This is going beyond what is normally possible in Duolingo. It shouldn't be allowed! But it seems like it shouldn't be that hard for Duolingo programmers to write software that would identify such people so that normal users wouldn't even have to report this kind of activity anymore.

(5) Repeating lessons should be allowed with normal XP accrual until the repetitions have gone through all the possible permutations of sentences/questions. Further repetitions after that on the same day could be set to zero XP and then reset the next day. Being able to repeat basic lessions is really helpful when trying to review/relearn a language, especially a language unrelated to one's native language.

December 1, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/tatacgarces

yeah! I am definitely out of leaderboard ego game. I am hating Duo for the first time in my life, you Duo, you are promoting toxic behavior on your "players-learners... and you do not even hire toxic people... so how is that ethical... thanks. I'll go to my regular usage to the platform... with a very bad memory of the experience. I am out! making my profile private. no shame on you Duo, but please feel the guilt. Encouraging toxicity here... wow

December 1, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/TokenKipper

Sorry, I'm done with leaderboards. The multi-thousand points performances discussed below, and seemingly fictitious 'followers' with dubious sounding handles have taken the pleasure out of it. Being relegated if you do not take the time to practice is one thing, but being binned due to bad actor activities is just shoddy. Unfortunately, electronic cheating seems to be par for the course nowadays. Pity they do not have the inteligence to realize they are only cheating themselves. Looking forward to more stories in French though, I am just about to start at the beginning and work my way through again!

December 2, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/AustenDanielCole

how do i turn off leaderboards as i no longer want to do it as i have been chasing the top ten and now give up due to the cheating and such malarkey i have been using duolingo the same way for ages and now it is pointless to practice my favourites as gain no xp ? so basicly fkit.....

December 3, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/PresleyJen

To turn off leaderboards you have to make your account private.

December 3, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/MattBush2

The sad reality of it is that if you had anyone with game theory experience on the team, you'd realize what an atrocious design the leaderboards are, and, in the vernacular of MMOs, "PVP once again ruins PVE." Seriously, just give us a way to disable it.

December 3, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/birok

To be able to get to an unconscious competence level, you need to practice until the words the structures get so well established that you don't have to think about them anymore. I think skill practice XP nerfing goes against the key principle of language learning (or any learning actually). I think it is very sad to see that in the attempts to penalize cheaters, the original mission of Duolingo gets lost.

December 3, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/FrancescaFo

AND, the concept of "DEMOTION," is poorly conceived.

December 3, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Cripner

I confess I have given up on the leaderboards. I will instead concentrate on doing fewer lessons but taking more time to learn from them, and making far less errors as a result, rather than chasing the next person

December 3, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Gwen649348

I repeat lessons often. I forget so much and after many months moving forward I go back pretty far to test myself and refresh. I'm in a slow forward push now but especially love to go back to the stories because I need to learn to hear conversations. It's also my warm up before I start my lessons. I love love the stories!

December 5, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Kinda139625

me too !!!

December 5, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/TomasB2019

I wonder why I didn’t get promoted to the Diamond League because I was ahead of the person at number 11 and I was in position number 9 in the obsidian league with about 10 minutes left. Can you help me understand?

December 9, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/AustenDanielCole

I too have not levelled up even when i was in the top ten still stuck on obsidian for three weeks now starting to lose volition.... i loved duo-lingo up until recently but now...........getting really dejected and not enjoying it anymore.....

December 9, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Mrs.H349723

Same happened to me. Finished first in amethyst, but didn’t get the advancement nor the reward. I’m not a cheater. I do spend a ridiculous amount of time on and off throughout each day either learning new lessons or practicing. This is the first week i haven’t advanced though. I’ve advanced since I started. I’m always in top ten if not top 3. Maybe the system is running behind or they’re prepping an update?

December 9, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Zia177448

Most of these things sound good, thank you for these changes! And thank you for keeping us updated, it's always nice to know what is going on!

November 15, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/venehisa

Thank you, thank you. This is so helpful. Those cheaters make it unfun. On the leadership board

November 15, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/BaggyT

Sure, sort out the cheaters, but not at the expense of those of us who genuinely work hard!

December 5, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Linda7Italian

Thank you for popping in with this very helpful post. Appreciated!

November 16, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/KiraKira202

Thank you so much for this! I think we've all had some concerns about this, whether they were voiced or not. Good luck with figuring out how to do these things - I know it's not easy. Thanks for your hard work. I appreciate it.

November 16, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Sasho737759

Thanks for the update. Leagues based on the combination of base and target language have been proposed before and would be great to have as well.

November 16, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/JanetCrook

I like the changes that have been made! I also found it frustrating that some users blatantly cheated...gaining 1000s of XP points whilst remaining on 37 crowns the whole week! This led me to be guilty of repeating stories to gain an XP advantage and be promoted to the next league - this was at the expense of quality learning! I despised myself for it. I have now come to my senses and don't strive to be promoted nor stay in the same league if it comes to that. This morning I see that you are only awarded XP points for 2 practice lessons on the same skill - I've come across this as I want to improve my pronoun skills (this is my current classroom subject) and have selected the skills that concentrate on this and, if I have to repeat without XP points, I don't mind. Well done to all those involved with making Duolingo the best!

November 17, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/CuteKitty121212

?????????????????????????????????????????

December 6, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Georgie-Pineda

Don't feed the hackers, the more you talk about what they are doing the more recognition they will get and the higher the chance that someone will contact them to buy their bots (I think they use duolingo as a testing ground for their bots and not as a source for revenue).

So please do continue doing this but from the shadows, since in the end what the hackers are looking for is recognition, free publicity and, like any internet troll, chaos.

November 18, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/AliciaWan1

Thank you so so much! Lately (today) I have been trying to catch up with the leaderboard, and I gaped at the results of 1000 XP of the leaderboards. Thank you for noticing this problem.

November 18, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/tip00

Is there a way to do skill-based matching in leagues? For example, users with similar XP per day, users with similar crowns, or similar languages.

With skill-based matching, the ultra-competitive can be grouped together (and you might be able to identify cheaters in these types of leagues) and then casual users can be grouped together (making it more enjoyable for these individuals and maybe invoke some friendly competition).

November 19, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/SeanColombo

That's something we're likely going to experiment with.

November 19, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/AnjaliNoronha

Why can you not connect native speakers and learners in a language and create some way for then to interact rather than leaderboards? Leader boards, the way they are are nity helping. May be capping a reasonable daily xp limit like 1000 points could have more meaning full practice at least. And deter cheating. There'd be clustered patterns which could still be ranked

November 19, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/TeribleT

Anjal, you can find language groups @https://discordbots.org/

November 19, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/HopeIsCrazy

There are terms y'all are using that I am not familiar with. Maybe that's just showing my age, I'm not sure what bots are, what people mean when referring to 'farming points' and not a clue as to what 'script' means. Can someone please explain what those 3 things mean in a way an old fart like me can understand? Thank you :)

November 19, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/TeribleT

Hopeiscrazy,

Bots: techterms.com/definition/bot

Script: techterms.com/definition/script

Farming points = It's a (video) game term. They are performing repetitive and/or boring tasks/actions (in this case, doing the easiest skills over and over again) just to gain XP (points). It's also called grinding. (Don't ask me why this is actually a thing, I don't get it either!)

For more information on this just search "grinding gaming definition" on bing.com ... The first few links all explain it well.

November 20, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Nyoro7

Thank goodness, it's super discouraging when you've got a bunch of people (Bots?) sat at 2k xp after the first day.

November 19, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Ganavion

When I give ideas for studying languages, I often say (and I think this is true) that the most powerful method to learn a language is to repeat what you have already studied. This is because I think that you must think in the language you study, without translating. You must understand in that language, and this is difficult if you are reading something for the first time, if you don't yet know the language very well. If you read again a text you already know, you can understand it directly, without passing through your own mother tongue that is what little children do, when they learn new words in their own mother tongue. What about leaderboards? You could give less XP's for repetitions, so that you can limit abuse. But I think repetition is a good way to learn, and I thought you were pushing to use it. Anyway, thank you to exist.

November 21, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/LittleHobbit13

I'm not thrilled with the XP getting "nerfed" only because that won't have the same impact on all users. The simple fact is, some languages are easier to learn than others. If you're de-powering the XP, then you need to couple it with having leaderboards homogeneous to single languages. It's not fair that someone working on a language potentially requiring them to switching through keyboard inputs and filtering through entries has to go up against someone with all the same letter sets (thus allowing them to move faster). Basically, you have some people who are literally learning another "alphabet" of sorts along with new vocab, and some people just learning new vocab, and yet they're all expected to compete together "fairly". One group clearly has an advantage in the leaderboard setting while others have to do way more work to keep up their XP.

The other argument I would bring up is that this discourages people from working on the basics. Depending on how many lessons you have under your belt, maybe it's been a while since you went all the way back. It's good for people to have a strong foundation when learning new languages, and removing the XP incentive is a blow to the motivation for people to "waste time" on easier lessons. They'll ONLY learn new things, even if they know they could use a refresher, because they're still going to be worried about points and not being demoted.

So either stop nerfing the XP so people can stay in the running for their league, group the leagues by language, or even better, JUST TURN OFF THE LEAGUES IF NONE OF THESE PROBLEMS EXISTED BEFORE YOU HAD THEM.

November 21, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/TeribleT

Littlehobbit, the leagues should be single languages or single language families. (Btw, Some languages don't even have alphabet instruction at the start, but i agree with you about the difficulty differences. The easiest languages for English speakers to learn are also the ones it's the easiest to get xp for because they have stories. It's clear the leagues are badly designed . In French, 1/3 of English vocab comes from French... So while French learners are plowing through French vocab words like: taxi, bus, personne, hôtel, parc, ski, croissant & cinéma some of us not only have a different alphabet, but a completely different and much more difficult vocabulary..).

November 22, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/LittleHobbit13

Yeah, exactly. I'm doing Japanese. It's a lot harder to compete with people doing an extremely similar language to English while I'm over here like scrolling through keyboard options depending on whether or not it's にわ like 庭 or 二羽. There's added complexity to languages with different character sets or wildly different grammatical structure that make competition unfair against people doing languages very close to what they already speak, and it kind of forces you into the need to "farm XP" on foundational lessons in order to keep up.

Keeping leaderboards to single languages would help that at least, but like I said, I'm also just game to nix mandatory leaderboards all together. It's created such a negative association with trying to learn a language. Either get rid of them, or make them an opt-it feature.

November 22, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/AnjaliNoronha

@SeanColombo Sean or any Duolingo team , di respond to suggestions below. Thanks Duolingo team and fellow learners fir this thread - it has made me understand many things. There now seems to be some improvement in reduction in xp mining and cheating - I am also language educator too - so this experience is making me reflect on many issues of both language learning and learning in general. I have been quite critical of the leagues, but have also been a fairly diligent participant in them as well. One terrible thing that happens is that the competition in the league system is highly addictive and makes you leave many other things - this thread shows that I am not alone in this. Many have spent long hours much more than required to learn and consolidate learning, in order to get promoted. This is terribly counter productive. And one element of interaction with native speakers of the language one is learning is extremely necessary - which has been banned for some reason. The main issue is xp mining that is not only unhelpful to learning but detrimental. And is also attractive to hackers and the way the leagues are formed is unfair too. Below are a couple of suggestions to correct these issues. 1. Form leagues according experience - number of total days, xps and crowns . There are people who have been there for 3 years or more and with 700- 800 crowns competing with those with 100 crowns - and they get more accept at meaning less addition of xps. At the moment the first three in my league have 1600+ ,900 + and 500+ day streaks!! 2. Make each league into just 3 levels for the upper leagues amethyst onwards it can be a) less than 1400 ( that is 200xps per day) B) Up to 2100 ( 300 xps) and c) more than 3000 or xp. Promote c, keep b in same league and demote a. - I have suggested these for the higher leagues asa real learning and practice fir these number of points is about 2-3 hours a day and it should not be more. In the lower leagues the limits can be kept lower. This way the incentive to cheat and hack will reduce. And people will balance mere learning and practice. 3. Have something else for those who reach and remain at diamond fir two or three weeks, make them ineligible for leagues. 4. And lastly, please do figured out sine way of connecting native speakers and learners of a language - many a time it can be mutually beneficial - I am learning Portuguese - and am fluent native speaker of English and hindi - I can help Portuguese native speakers learning english and they can help me. 5. This can be made an opportunity for those who attain diamond league.

November 22, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/AnjaliNoronha

@SeanColombo Sean or any Duolingo team , di respond to suggestions below. Thanks Duolingo team and fellow learners fir this thread - it has made me understand many things. There now seems to be some improvement in reduction in xp mining and cheating - I am also language educator too - so this experience is making me reflect on many issues of both language learning and learning in general. I have been quite critical of the leagues, but have also been a fairly diligent participant in them as well. One terrible thing that happens is that the competition in the league system is highly addictive and makes you leave many other things - this thread shows that I am not alone in this. Many have spent long hours much more than required to learn and consolidate learning, in order to get promoted. This is terribly counter productive. And one element of interaction with native speakers of the language one is learning is extremely necessary - which has been banned for some reason. The main issue is xp mining that is not only unhelpful to learning but detrimental. And is also attractive to hackers and the way the leagues are formed is unfair too. Below are a couple of suggestions to correct these issues. 1. Form leagues according experience - number of total days, xps and crowns . There are people who have been there for 3 years or more and with 700- 800 crowns competing with those with 100 crowns - and they get more accept at meaning less addition of xps. At the moment the first three in my league have 1600+ ,900 + and 500+ day streaks!! 2. Make each league into just 3 levels for the upper leagues amethyst onwards it can be a) less than 1400 ( that is 200xps per day) B) Up to 2100 ( 300 xps) and c) more than 3000 or xp. Promote c, keep b in same league and demote a. - I have suggested these for the higher leagues asa real learning and practice fir these number of points is about 2-3 hours a day and it should not be more. In the lower leagues the limits can be kept lower. This way the incentive to cheat and hack will reduce. And people will balance mere learning and practice. 3. Have something else for those who reach and remain at diamond fir two or three weeks, make them ineligible for leagues. 4. And lastly, please do figured out sine way of connecting native speakers and learners of a language - many a time it can be mutually beneficial - I am learning Portuguese - and am fluent native speaker of English and hindi - I can help Portuguese native speakers learning english and they can help me. 5. This can be made an opportunity for those who attain diamond league.

November 22, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/cartergraysons

Honestly just let sleeping cheaters lie...

November 22, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Toni243348

I am finally frustrated enough that I’m going to drop out of the leaderboard. While I admit that it was a good incentive for me to work extra hard, because I am somewhat competitive, it was beginning to interfere with the opportunity to actually go out and speak French while I was in France. I was spending way too much time earning points and not being demoted! I did take advantage of the stories, by re-reading them several times, but with the intent of getting more familiar with pronunciation and syntax. No matter how much time I spent trying to maintain a position in the promotion league, people were bypassing me by thousands of points. I will continue to study, but not with the aim of simply earning points to stay strong on the leaderboard.

November 23, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/realberggren

Toni243348 I had the same problem - because of trying to earn points, I neglected my textbooks, and spent way less time with native speakers in the country of my most targeted language. Now I'm in a position of having to translate between and English speaker and a native speaker regularly, and that is producing amazing progress. I do think that the best way to become fluent is to work in the kitchen of a restaurant where nobody speaks your language. (Not what I'm doing, but I've seen it work, when I was studying hard, but a friend working in a kitchen could fluently yell at everybody after three months, without having studied anything.)

November 23, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/AnjaliNoronha

Please also track the growth in crowns I.e learning of tipo performers in leagues. That'll give you a much better understanding of learning

November 23, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/silvaIguer

Wait... is it an option to disable leaderboards?

November 23, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Sedona2007

Yes, but it also disables any followers or being followed. Which doesn’t matter much except I like it to see how much a couple of my real life friends are working. That’s the only reason I haven’t disabled. It’s all or nothing . If I could drop leader boards without dropping my friends who follow me, I’d do it.

November 24, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Arditiz

Thanks for communicating with us. I have observations: I suggest that your data analysis lacks insight, or at worst, is just wrong. People may be spending 'significantly more time on task' but having been diligently down the leader board road - and now opting out entirely with a sense of deep relief - good riddance - I say the leader board players, many of them, are generally not on task for the right reasons. And this discrepancy will start to show. Many will burn out, because it is stressful - and to what end, I ask. I say the leader boards encourage shallow engagement, learning lite, for the sake of all the wrong things - point accumulation, silly prizes - not passion, curiosity, dedication, critical thinking, exploration or ANY of the things that a deep and lasting learning practice bring. Test those people in five years - I will eat my hat if they have not most of them 1. Quit. 2. Actually forgotten almost all they learned and 3. Lost their bearings in terms of their own sense of passion and self-motivation. Your leader board game to me is toxic. It is about clicks and addiction, and you can come up with many fancy excuses and explanations, (like facebook does,) but I feel you are fooling yourselves, and us. That said, I appreciate Duo Lingo for many reasons, mostly. But I have a lot of critiques too, on many issues. And I hope you will listen to us guinea pigs. We are the ones who play this game every day, and we have insights that are based in real experiences. I'm sure many will disagree with me - but many also will not, and in the end I feel sure that the leader board experiment will show itself for what it is - a click-culture mistake of a rather large magnitude. It is especially awful for the young, and teaches problematic values. Of course if the main goal is profit, i..e lots of clicks, and not real learning and real engagement, you won't care.

November 24, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/AnjaliNoronha

I agree 100% being a language educator. I have made a few suggestions but have not got a single response. Most importantly to find a way of putting together native speakers and learners of a language. One thing they have attended to i think is hackers and xp miners. Bhut in spite of it - this kind of leagues encourages all the wrong things. I've reached the diamond league in 73 days - just to experience the system - which becomes very addictive if you play according to their rules and I've not been able to balance my other engagements due to this. I plan thik get out of the leagues after surrendering a week on diamond - can you suggest how i could do that?

November 25, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/AnjaliNoronha

Can someone tell me how to opt out of leaderboards? I need to consolidate my learning - balancing new learning and revision better and leader board competition doesn't allow me to do that. I have reached the diamond league in 73 days - want to experience it fir a week and then opt out Also the drop down menu here on messages is only giving the messages in order of top posts not according to latest - which makes it very difficult to follow the conversation. Please correct it.

November 25, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Sedona2007

Go to Settings, access Privacy, and opt OUT of "Make profile public". This will take you out of leaderboards (and ability to follow or be followed).

November 25, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/neb175642

I think "nerfing" the XP for a lesson that is repeated over and over again makes sense. I myself used the very first lesson like 5 times recently just to climb to another league on a sunday night (which I'm not proud of). But this reduction should only be done for older lessons and not those recently finished.

I am currently learning portuguese here and I find it quite annoying that some not so simple lessons (for example "Participle") has very few regular lessons. This will make me wanna repeat it over and over again after my app already told me that I've already completed it. This again is quite frustrating regarding to XP points. Sure, I don't have to care about XP points but it kind of creates the game-feeling in duolingo which is fun - so I'd like to keep on repeating without resigning XP.

November 26, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/WarriorCleberz

Paliatives, paliatives, and.... more paliatives. Duo, back to immersion section, please. And a chatbox for the students, even poor quality games have it.

November 27, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/HannaEriks15

hi

November 28, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/hetinglouise

I'm just wondering, is there something to gain by being first of a league? What's the motivation for people who use bots?

November 28, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/natalyalovelace

Still rather take leaderboards off because it scares me into not taking any lessons and discouraged. I just want to do things at my own pace.

November 29, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/_myr_

I've been working like mad all week to stay at #1 in my League, earning about 1.5K per day and currently at 7.3K. The next person down from me has 4.4K and the next has 3.3K. This morning, I got a notification that I had lost the #1 spot! I was so surprised, went and looked, and someone who wasn't even in the top five in the last five days had indeed taken the #1 place. Since overtaking me, this person has earned another 8K in the last 3 hours! I looked at their raw data and they seem to be earning 20 XP every 30 seconds or so. While this is not as extreme as 100 XP every 2-3 seconds, it is still extreme and impossible for a human being to achieve. Only a script or bot could do this so consistently. This person seems to have done something similar and even more extreme in the previous week, earning 8K, 15K, and 24K over three days, for a total of 47K in three days. I have reported this person, but even if the Duolingo staff determine that this person has cheated, it seems that they don't remove the cheating person from the League in which the cheating occurred, so that the best I can hope for this week is ending up at #2. Surely it is possible for the Duolingo programmers to come up with some scripts to find people like this!

I like repeating the stories. I like getting the extra XP for them, but I also like the extra things I learn - words and formulations that are more complicated than what is given in the regular exercises. I also realized that if I click on a word to see what it means, it appears again in the pairing activity at the end. This is really helpful! I think that repeating stories should not be penalized in any way, other than what is happening now - that you can only read a story once a day and earn XP for it.

I think it should be allowed to repeat earlier lessons with normal XP. I wanted to go back and work on Klingon again. I've forgotten so much and I would find it helpful and motivational to be able to repeat any of the exercises more than once and earn normal XP, since each run through is different from the one before - i.e., not every repetition contains the same sentences. Maybe if a person has gone through all the possible sentences, only then set the XP for further repetitions to zero - for that day (so that you could do repetitions again the next day).

Cheating is using bots, software, scripts, whatever, to artifically earn XP. Period. I have no idea how these work, but I have seen them in action, and find it frustrating and demotivating to be working honestly towards achieving goals (badges) that Duolingo staff have created for us only to be overtaken by someone out of nowhere who has earned twice as much in three hours as I have earned in 4.5 days.

UPDATE #1: The person in question is still earning more points - currently, after five hours, about 12K, which works out to 20 points every 30 seconds, which jives with the raw data I looked at earlier in Duome. No human being would be able to do this!

UPDATE #2: the person finally stopped after seven hours, having earned about 16.8K - a steady +20 XP every 30 seconds for seven hours!

November 29, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Marie_Wolf

If you follow this link here it will walk you through the steps of reporting someone you believe is cheating. https://support.duolingo.com/hc/en-us/articles/205101500-How-do-I-report-abuse-

Hope that helps!

December 1, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/diane.t.pa

Prolly a stupid question...but what are XP's?

November 29, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/VolfKhat

This post has been a great benefit!! I was 100% unaware that scripting was a thing. It now EXPLAINS everything I've seen the past 8 weeks. The leaderboards were fun "at first". They became More Fun when I discovered the STORIES could give 24 points each. And EVEN BETTER when I learned I could spam them repeatedly. I would open multiple tabs, and hammer multiple stories SIMULTANEOUSLY . Mwahahaha :] I remember one week, I racked up over 7,000 points. That's enough for a Top10 advancement... but 3-4 others had over 10,000 points that week lol. Oh well.. Game on!

And Then, The stories got Neref'd. My 'secret wepon' was gone!

But, I was okay with that; Spending so much time on STORIES I already knew... took away from my time from doing/learning actual lessons instead. Now, In order to be competitive in the Leaderboards... I needed to hammer the Lessons. I was actually relieved.

But after a month of competing Honestly.... I've been stuck in the bottom 10, each week. I couldn't understand how so many people were so far ahead of me...

But NOW I finally do. So you know what??? I'm done with the Leaderboards. I'm gonna TANK . Its gonna be hard to see myself PLUMMENT all the way down to Zero... But what's the point? The only way to keep up is to SCRIPT . I have ZERO interest in that. So this is the END for me.

Ciao folks!! OBSIDIAN is where my journey ends. But do not shed tears for me.... I still have my Streak (which is a wayyy more satisfying achievement)

November 30, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/DavidHefer

Cheaters discouraged by better cheaters...

November 30, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Stergi3

Leaderboards is a past for me. I come back to Public from time to time to see what is going on with my friends, and I come back to privacy. . It's the only way to avoid cheaters and hackers and keep my mind concentrated on learning. I hope Duolingo find a way to get rid of them and build a learning community that is worthwhile to be in. It's not now with these leagues.

November 30, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/janetdunga

how can we report more cheaters, the new week started an hour ago and this person already has 688, that impossible. I hate cheaters and I'm sick and tired of this. cheater name is Nancy (Nancy456974)

December 2, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/dlhgl

You may want to remove the name of the person (it may be against Duolingo's guidelines). If you want to report the person you can do this as described e.g. here.

But most probably the person isn't cheating, but may just have done a lot of stories. It is well possible to get several hundreds of XP this way within an hour.

The person may be gaming the system (or maybe not - only an admin who is able to lookup the lessons / stories the person did, could tell that). But as SeanColombo wrote:

These users are often well intentioned, and we aren't going to ban people for this.

December 2, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/gruhnc728

I find that levels are more important than leaderboards. Levels actively gauge the progress you make in a language. The leaderboards encourage only advancement, and make language learning strictly peripheral. People often do the easiest lessons over and over again just to bump up their experience and advance to the next league. Also, Duolingo has taken away my Duo trophy twice, refreshing my learning tree in the process. Please stop doing that. I feel like an ant who built an anthill, only to have some inconsiderate punk blow my anthill away in an instant. I must now start all over again, after months of patient progress towards acquiring my Duo trophy. Thanks for letting me vent, everyone. Bonan matenon!!! :-)

December 2, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/PresleyJen

I feel like the leaderboards make people want to be the best instead of just learning the langauge.I think people should just be focused on the learning instead of leaderboards.

December 2, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/FrancescaFo

WHAT A SCAM!!! Do not get sucked into the Badges or pay for anything related to this. There is a formula this company uses to suck you in. Dabble in it for free and learn a few things, go on your trip and leave this site.

December 2, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Seattle_USA

So can we all agree now that the people at the top of leader boards are frauds? Shouldn't being at the top signify that at this point?

December 3, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/BethWelch3

I was at the top Bronze through at least Sapphire and I wasn't cheating.

December 3, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Brennan.Bro

no not unless they are getting a ridiculous amount because some people just dedicate a lot of time to duolingo and get a lot of XP although i have to admit that the pearl league ( where i am stuck) is insanely hard and I just barely missed getting demoted and it almost seems like the top person in my league might be cheating but they have a barely reasonable amount so maybe it isn't. or it could be a smart hacker

December 4, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Ceriz8

I report de abuse of hacking Duolingo by the users antonello (antonello140661) and Norma (Norma418933). They made about 25000 xp in just two days. This is not right. They should be blocked or removed.

Also, please check the hacker's data here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q7zxIzvw_HE "Duolingo XP "Hack" - DuoBot 2019 "Lolo "Earn 1800 XP on Duolingo per hour by using DuoBot. This a tutorial on how to install it on Desktop and a short demonstration. "Learn more: https://www.duobot.ml (please read) DOWNLOAD: https://greasyfork.org/en/scripts/393... Discord: https://discord.gg/DXAwvrW If you want to support this project, feel free to donate via Paypal: https://bit.ly/2PMuyad

"Tags: Duolingo Hack, Duolingo cheat, Duobot, Duolingo bot, Duo bot, xp, xp hack, 2019, duolingo solver, automatic, automatically,"

December 4, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Ceriz8

I report de abuse of hacking Duolingo by the users antonello (antonello140661) and Norma (Norma418933). They made about 25000 xp in just two days. This is not right. They should be blocked or removed. Also, please check the hacker's data here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q7zxIzvw_HE "Duolingo XP "Hack" - DuoBot 2019 "Lolo "Earn 1800 XP on Duolingo per hour by using DuoBot. This a tutorial on how to install it on Desktop and a short demonstration. "Learn more: https://www.duobot.ml (please read) DOWNLOAD: https://greasyfork.org/en/scripts/393... Discord: https://discord.gg/DXAwvrW If you want to support this project, feel free to donate via Paypal: https://bit.ly/2PMuyad

"Tags: Duolingo Hack, Duolingo cheat, Duobot, Duolingo bot, Duo bot, xp, xp hack, 2019, duolingo solver, automatic, automatically,"

December 4, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/AnjaliNoronha

Thank you ceriz - it's really ridiculous how many minded occupy themselves negatively - so many hackers - for something that is not really helpful for the main purpose of learning a language well!! And these are the trips who downvote posts critical of the leaderboards. The problem will be solved only when duolingo stops leaderboards and had features that engage sahne language learners and speakers in more meaningful activities. It can also charge some nominal amounts fir specific features for the free users. But for the leaderboards - which i have quit after reaching at staying at the diamond league - i aaj very happy with duo lingo and a lot of its community, many people are very helpful and have guided me on tracking my own progress too. Symptomatic treatment of penalising cheaters will not work- the motivation to cheat will go only if the system that encourages cheating and makes it possible goes. Please remove leagues and leader boards

December 4, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/AnjaliNoronha

What language(s) do you know and which ones are you learning?

December 4, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/DhiyaSelva

Thanks, I'm a begginer but still nice to now.

December 4, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/jams1559

I do not use bots or scripts. But I DO very much repeat stories. The first time few times I do a story I listen and read at the same time. Then I go on to another story or lesson. Days or weeks later I come back to that story and do it again. But this time I listen without reading. And I keep listening without reading until my ear can distinguish every word and I understand completely what is being said. Then I move on to other lessons and stories again. Then I come back and listen some more. Am I a cheater? Do I deserve XP for my work or no?

December 5, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Mrs.H349723

Yes. If we spend the time to go over it and not rush through for xp to compete, I think we should absolutely get the credit for it. It wouldn’t be difficult to put this in the program. Might actually discourage the cheating if those flying through lessons and stories strictly for xp weren’t getting much for it. It’s not a race. It’s a marathon.

December 5, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/OptionAl390804

No. Not more than once a day. The stories aren't THAT good. You're not learning anything by repeating them so closely together. That's rote learning.

December 5, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/j0hngalt

Respectfully, that's demonstrably wrong. "Drilling" at any skill is a long time / proven performance enhancer.

December 5, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/OptionAl390804

Whether or not you actually believe that, and are not just throwing out an unsupported statement just to be contrary, the scientific evidence contradicts you. You may believe it, but belief doesn't make it true.

"As opposed to cramming (trying to “memorize” lots of things in a short amount of time), this is an ideal revision method. Like we said before, it takes fewer review sessions (and less time) to memorize new info, and it’s much more sustainable. Since you’ll focus on the most difficult information, you won’t waste time learning and relearning easy words or words you already know. It’s not about studying for hours and hours on end. It’s about studying at the right time. Which is, as you should know by now, right before you forget what you’ve learned. 10 to 15 minutes A DAY [my emphasis] is all it takes to sustainably memorize new foreign-language words and phrases."

https://www.mosalingua.com/en/the-spaced-repetition-system-srs-memorization-for-life/

December 5, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/jams1559

regardless of the statistical data, some of us want to learn by wrote and should be allowed to do so without being made to feel "less than" an intellectual such as yourself.

December 5, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/BaggyT

I've said before, studies are generalisations. They can be useful for a lot of people, but they remain generalisations and cannot simply be applied to every human being on the planet. Why people don't understand this is beyond me.

December 5, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Todd26

Cool site. Interesting learning research.
Thanks for posting the link.

December 5, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/jams1559

and if I want to learn by rote, which is how I was originally taught in school (im old) then why shouldnt I be able to? and why shouldnt I get the same credit for my work that people who learn differently get? I am training my ear to distinguish the words.

The people who are changing everything with their complaints are people who say that they cannot ignore the leaderboards. And you cater to them?

Once a day isnt bad. But I would prefer to be able to repeat a story until I hear every single syllable distinctly in a story, in context. The I start to identify which words together are making a phrase or idiom.

And I never said that I repeat because the stories are good. Most of them are cute and/or funny. But that is not the purpose at all.

Read my original post again please.

December 5, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Mrs.H349723

I’m the same way. The way I do it with both lessons and the stories is I make a mental note of what I feel I have mastered as well as what I feel could use work. I first focus on repeating the lessons and stories I’m still not sure about and then I go back to the ones i have mastered as a break from the ones I’m working to learn. Finally, go back to the lessons/stories I’m working on and see where I am with it. I repeat this process until I feel like I have absorbed all I’m able to for the time being. I may come back after a break from it or perhaps not til the next day. But thats how I learn best. We all learn differently. I’ve not been on Duolingo for very long and this method has been very effective for me. It keeps me motivated.

December 5, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/MercedesWa51364

I would like to have the opportunity to somehow "mark" the sentences I want to repeat because I do not need to repeat them all but in order to repeat them, as it is today, I have to go through all the others as well and this is to lose time.

December 5, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/jams1559

there is an ancient technique you can use. it is called "taking notes" all it requires is a writing implement and a notebook. LOL Just kidding. But I do that all the time (take notes)

December 5, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/MercedesWa51364

Well that's not a joke. :) As I wrote in another comment some researchers, made a study and came to the conclusion that writing down sentences/words by hand made it easier for the mind to remember the spelling of the words and even how to form the letters. That is not so stupid as it might sound if one is understanding how the brain is working, that's to say the tinny part we know about how the brain is functioning. ;).

December 5, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/OptionAl390804

Because you won't be able to reperform outside of that very narrow rote context. Really, what you're doing is not so much learning, acquiring a skill that you can apply in other contexts at will. It's more like training, like Pavlov's dogs, responding in a very narrow predetermined way to a fixed cue.

December 5, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/MercedesWa51364

I don't know if you are replying to my comment but you sound pretty superior, arrogant and offensive. With my comment I meant that I would like to be able to only repeat the sentences or words that I do not get right, only because when I master all the others in a story or whatever it's called, I lose time having to go through everyone and, mark well, I do not mean that it would promote to quickly gain points. That's not my goal but maybe yours!

And everyone has different ways of learning and you can keep your comparison with Pavlov dogs for yourself !!!

December 5, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/OptionAl390804

I responded to the substance of your comment. You're making statements based on your purely imagined idea of me as a person. Somebody here has a problem staying in their lane, and clearly it's not me.

If you want to feel offended, that's your choice. As for me, I'm just blocking you because I can tell already that you don't have anything worth listening to.

December 5, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/OptionAl390804

BTW, I find your comment about me "catering to other comments about ignoring leaderboards" totally bizarre. There is nothing remotely like that in my comment. Indeed, nothing remotely like that in any of my comments in this forum.

Don't bring that up again because I'm going to totally ignore it as an irrelevancy.

December 5, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Sheikof

Legal!

December 5, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/DeniseBake12

I’m sorry that a few people have “gamed” the Leaderboards, but I know the changes made to skill Practice are impeding my learning. I used to do 100-150 XPs per day practicing one particular topic/skill. This kind of repeated practice is the learning paradigm Duolingo is built on. Now I have to jump from topic to topic, never getting adequate practice and becoming confused by having to move from one skill/topic to another on a single day. It seems like those of us who want to learn are being punished for the few cheaters on the Leaderboards. You might say I can practice without gaining XPs and that is true. But Duo is sending a mixed message by indicating that the Leaderboards are more important than the principle of repetition that informs the pedagogical model for language learning. If you won’t eliminate Leaderboards, why not raise the XPs per Practice topic to 50 or 100 rather than 10 per day. In my opinion, that would be a good compromise.

December 6, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/MichaelSle19

I liked the leaderboards until stories were released... now for the last two or three weeks the top spots have been dominated by people that accumulate enormous amounts of XP in short periods of time. I had read that stories were nerfed but they still award XP on the Android app.

I like to compete for top leaderboard spots but I don't want to grind stories to do it (I'm not learning anything re-doing the story several times).

I also noticed that the people getting these mass amounts of XP are always doing Spanish. Not sure what the Spanish stories are like but it leads me to believe they might be easier/shorter. It could just be a coincidence or maybe that many people are learning Spanish.

December 6, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/StephenCavan

I agree. By adding stories into the mix as they have done, the leaderboard system is ruined.

December 6, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/5Q7oOK1I

I think it depends on which language you are doing. I have access to stories in my French lessons, but I could ne Er reach the number of points people are getting by doing every story in the deck everyday multiple times. It is not stories that are resulting in 20,000 XPs a week it is cheating by people running programs that generate XPs. Sad VERY sad!

December 6, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/BobPatters4

It might be OK if stories were available in all languages. The Spanish stories take a couple of minutes to get through and you're awarded 22 or 24 points if you get all the answers correct. You can do the same story over and over again to build points. Admittedly the repetition does reinforce learning; but only to a certain point (once you've got it, you've got it). I'm sure Duolingo will do something to make it more fair.

December 8, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/StephenCavan

Somehow they can redo the stories in under 10 seconds. Last week and this week I have been blown past by people doing this move. Even though I report it, the answer is that is seems legit, or at least nothing is done. In both cases the person was using Spanish. I am not sure Duo will do anything to make it fair. They need to drop stories or deavlue them.

December 8, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Travis512518

I finished #1 in my gold leaderboard. Didn't get the achievement nor did I advance to the next league. Am I missing something?

December 9, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/VeeVeeBee

I placed 2nd in sapphire league but now that it's over I'm in sapphire again. Am I misunderstanding something here or is this a glitch? All it says is "top 10 to advance" so I assumed I would be into the next league afterwards, like with the previous two.

December 9, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/mahatana

Hi, I was #14 yesterday, I was automatically congratulated to join the gold league. Yet, I'm still stuck with the silver one. After googling a little, some say not to use the android even once in the week. The app auto-updated last week and this leaderboard thing just showed up and I said I'll play with it. So either, please remove it from android if it you are going to block it anyway or fix the problem.

December 9, 2019, 1:19 PM

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Nateawesome

So I have a kind of dumb question, what do you do with all the lingots people give you SeanColombo?

November 15, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/TheFlumen

Just give them out to people in the forums, and, if desired, you could make a competition with lingots as the reward.

November 15, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/blurflux

I think posts about giving or acquiring lingots in any way, including by setting up competitions, have been declared to be spam. I am not that sure on the details, though.

November 16, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/TheFlumen

Sorry about the late reply.

You are correct, however competitions are fine. If you want the link to the post that says this, I can give it to you. Just let me know! :)

November 22, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/MercedesWa51364

Hi, I have a question. How is it possible to learn 20-30 languages att the same time? I speak 5 languages + a lite bit German and I am now learning Hungarian. I have been wondering to start parallell with German but I am afraid it will take to much of my time. Hungarian takes already quite a lot of it.

December 5, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/TheFlumen

I understand.

Honestly, I'm not using Duolingo to get serious in a language as of now. I am experimenting with multiple languages. I focus on a language for a while, learn a lot of it, but then I get tired of it and switch to a different language. The only language I have really ever focused on a lot is Latin, but I have used many resources outside of Duolingo to learn it. I am relatively close to near-fluent in it, and enjoy learning it.

I hope that answers your question. :)

December 5, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/MercedesWa51364

Thank you for your answer. That would never works for me except maybe for Danish and Norwegian because the languages are quite similar Swedish. :)

December 5, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/WINGSOFFIREFAN2

You buy stuff in the shop...or are you talking to SeanColumbo?

November 15, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/TheFlumen

Nate's talking about once you have thousands and have bought everything in the shop.

November 15, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/miaou-meow

ww thank you so much for keeping us posted :)

November 15, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/erica.looooo

are we allowed to do different stories (not repeat) to get XP?

November 15, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/GlassSlippers

Yes, of course ! Do all ya want that are new. :)

November 15, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/AnamF7

Thank you!

November 15, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Boss-Elijah

How can you get 100 lingots?

November 19, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/HopeIsCrazy

I would assume it was someone with a lot of time on their hands! What gets me is people that down vote almost all comments. If they want to act a troll they should go somewhere where people arent trying to learn! (I predict that this is going to get down voted)!

November 28, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/TheBoyAintRight

Good to hear.

November 16, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/PeaceForce

That's the ticket, make cheaters and XP farmers at least work HARD for their hacks! In that spirit, why not nix the shop's weekly XP boost giveaways while you're at it (if it hasn't been done already)?

In any case, a basic values framing would be missing from this long discussion. However helpful or off-putting DL users currently find XP competition, the friendly green owl presumably meant it to be part of an expressly "gamified" yet harmlessly fun learning environment, not to be sheer cutthroat entertainment for the hell of it. Whether gamification in language education is a good idea at all, an existential question for the company and community would therefore be in order: To be for game-playing learners, or for hook-or-crook game players?

Of course the answer should be learners, but telling the difference between the two types of users is not always easy. For anecdote, in another recent discussion post, by unintentionally expressing a casual opinion as an assertion, I was flamed as being a "flag-collecting" kind of playa, arguably unjustly (https://forum.duolingo.com/comment/34994563). Either way, in DL's model of fun, gameful education, I submit that a learners-or-players litmus test needs to be continually made. May the best learners win (whether I make the mix myself) ...

November 16, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/tolearnisjoy

This is really helpful. It is so good to be informed about plans to improve things from feedback. Being able to disable or enable the Leaderboards would be great. I'm looking forward to that feature. Thank you.

November 16, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/MacIomhair

Suggestion for disabling leaderboards for those of us who dislike them until you get a better solution: a flag at profile level which simply hides them and sets us to no notifications about them - so we would technically still participate we would just be blissfully unaware of it.

November 16, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Avi_an_Avian

If you have an ad locker of some kind you can block an element. I blocked when it started and since this first few week haven't seen a message so it works. I think that because I hit a stable league for my practice though. Either way gets rid of leagues. For me its past me that I need to beet not other people.

November 17, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/SPANISHLEARNERS5

Thanks so much!

November 16, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/MoggilL60s

I am disappointed and slightly irritated by changes that have occured on my screen. I liked leader boards as they encouraged me to stay longer ( sometimes 8-10 bours)and it certainly showed me the value of hard work. I repeatet and repeated some of the previously completed 5 levels to 'force' it into my brain by the act of repetition. I am not'gaming' the system' whatever that is supposed to mean. Where are the 50 in the list that gives comeraderie and a target to aim at. And where is the facility that easily allows me to change my user name fof variety and to pass cryptic messages to others on the list. I am confused and disappointed. Seán

November 16, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/hrjekqrhjrkq

At least give us a post update leaderboard. Just... call it a new season to appease them.

November 16, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/painai2

I like the leaderboards, so far it keeps me motivated.

November 17, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/pjuPCG

I like/need to repeat stories & quite often I go back to them (as I do lessons) with a 'new eye' on the vocabulary but I really wouldn't mind if I only accrued points on the first viewing. Being able to review/repeat is part of my learning strategy but I am a little frustrated by the 'cheats' who seem more interested in 'leading the board' than learning

November 17, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/EnyaHsiao

Thanks for the clarification!

November 17, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Daan31324

Is it possible to have a option to reset/restart your leaderboard league? I enjoyed the competition part of it but i'm at the highest league and the try hards there are the first day isn't even fun anymore getting like 5k on the first day. I know i can just go a league back if I don't get enough xp during that week and end up on the 46th ~ 50th spot but prefer to start back in the bronze league.

November 17, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/FredMefford

I confess to repeating stories for XPs, but I also do it for the listening practice. I'll close my eyes so that I'm not reading the story and try to get it just by listening, it's been very helpful for me.

November 17, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/HopeIsCrazy

Hadn't thought og listening and not reading along. That's a great idea! The part of language learning that is by far the most difficult for me is listening and understanding what's being said. And the stories, most of them are said slow enough to comprehend. thanks for sharing your good idea!

November 28, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/JohannesNymand

Hello. Here are 2 features I would thoroughly enjoy to see on Duolingo.

  • Typo acceptance toggle (So I can learn from my mistakes, by turning it off).
  • Pinning of skill courses (So I know what skill I'm doing, if I choose to come back and practise something I completed already, instead of using the practice button).

I know a toggle could be an issue for people; referring to the leaderboards. But if everybody could be happy somehow, that would be great.

Have a beautiful day

November 17, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Barbwal

I really tried hard this week in Ruby League, and was in 4th position on the Leaderboard. But I didn't get promoted to the Emerald League. I can only see 5 leagues on my iPad screen. Why is that? How do I get access to the higher Leagues

November 18, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/SeanColombo

Do you have a rather old version of the app? If so, try updating it, and that might get you the other 5 leagues.

November 18, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/sam548707

what is the point of botting on Duolingo?

November 18, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Larkspire

Imaginary internet points.

November 18, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/An1MuS

Right now on web i'm getting 0 XP for repeating a skill that is finished. I agree the XP should be nerfed compared to improving a skill, to prevent XP farming, but 0 XP i think is overkill. There are some skills where even though i got max level, I still feel I need more practice, and I would like to know that it still counts (at least a little) for the leaderboards.

November 18, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/HikingHeather

How do you determine who is actively participating in the leaderboard aspect of the game and then how do you determine that they specifically are showing "much better results in their target language" as opposed to people who are pacing themselves in other ways or not actively paying attention to the leaderboards. How do you address those who are churning rather than learning?

I don't know if I fully trust your data, but I am glad you are listening to people and always finding new ideas to implement. Some ideas I like, some ideas I don't, but I'll hand it to Duolingo you guys are always trying to innovate.

November 19, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Pokka_

Obvi it's not great when people cheat. However, I wouldn't want to get rid of the leaderboards. They help me to increase my pace and want to keep doing more exercises. It's very inspiring when I see the progress of other people who also like to spend a lot of time on here.

November 19, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/shark1333

Thank you for your Post.

November 19, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/VVoov

Good thing this post came out. I felt that a lot of regular users might've had the impression that Duolingo wasn't listening or was sitting on their hands with XP.

November 19, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/DavidMoore126947

One thing that's a little confusing is the difference between mobile and web. I prefer to use web as typing is easier, however I see that the bonus points don't exist on web for practising previously completed sections, but they do on mobile, plus on mobile you could repeat sections, and on the web you don't get any XP for repeating a practice. Finally I notice that the tips-and-notes are very different. I was really struggling with one section until I just happened to read the notes on the web version and found a whole bunch of extra information.

I really wish they'd find some way to highlight or indicate the differences, or better still, to remove them.

November 19, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/TeribleT

David, you don't get xp for repeating on the app either. (Although maybe this is an a/b test, or iOS specific thing, I don't see it on Android).

November 19, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/DavidMoore126947

Must be a test thing. I specifically tried yesterday, cos I had not been on the web version for a while, and saw the "practice +0xp" text.

However today.... on the app, it shows +10xp before I have done a practice, then +5xp after I have done it once, and then 0xp. Also the second practice seemed harder. To me this seems completely reasonable, however I guess it's hard to write/document it, when everyone has something different for testing purposes. Actually showing it in app seems like a good move (what it's doing now to show XP you will gain), and the levels seem right.

Perhaps the last 4 completed exercises could reward a bit more, however that's probably more complicated, both programmatically, and to end users.

November 20, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/FairlyPlans

Thankfully this stops people from XP farming.

November 19, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/WallieGoos

Most days (if I have time) I will spend an hour practising. I am getting pretty quick with my response time. I will vary which lessons which I practise on. I can get through an earlier lesson within a minute and others will take me longer. Then when I get double XP for half an hour, that can take me up near the top 3 leader board. There are times when I have had 3000+ XP but I have never cheated to get this high score. It was all hard work. So please don't assume that if someone does get a high score that they have automatically cheated.

November 20, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/TeribleT

Wallie, right, but it's not an occasional day of thousands of xp that are the issue (or cheaters), anyone can look at another user's raw data on their profile on duome.eu/USERNAME (or at Duolingo.com/users/USERNAME ) - just change username to your username or another user's name, and see how they're getting those xp (how often between skills, how much per day, what times, etc.) And where they are in the course. (It's clear you're not cheating) BUT if you see someone getting 15xp every ten seconds, 50 xp at a clip every three minutes, 10-15 xp every minute 12 hours a day (with no crown increases) for weeks on end, then there's funny business. It's also shady when you see people starting and finishing level one of a whole tree in less than 2 hours, resetting the language and doing it again multiple times a week.

November 20, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/WallieGoos

That makes sense. Thank you

November 21, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/elaine452504

exactly my point thank you!

November 20, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Andrause

Looking foward for the updates!

November 20, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Christophe628445

Thank you for the clarification Sean.

November 20, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/elaine452504

I am currently earning earning about 1000 every night. I sit here for roughly 3 hours and work on the content. I take notes like it is suggested. I have done some stories and repeated a couple because I think they are cute. I think I have a lot of XP for someone that has not been here for very long but I have worked very hard for it. I have my own goals that are unrelated to the leader boards and ultimately XP as well. So please, not everyone that is doing well is cheating. Thank you.

November 20, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/HopeIsCrazy

Truth! Thankfully the administration can pool up individual people and what they're working on in regards to points. The man that started this discussion page had looked up a few people b/c others have said 'soandso has 2000 points after 1 day' and he has reported back that some of us will spend hours and hours of time on Duolingo. So the people in charge can see easily enough, if they were to look you up, they'd know that you're actually putting in the time. There have been peoplethat 6 hrs after the start of the new week have 4000 points. That's the kind of thing I object to. When the top 3 on the leaderboard gets extra lingots for being number 1,2 or 3 for the week, even tho the lingots become rather useless, it ticks me off how often the top 3 end the week with 15,000 to 50,000 points, obviously they're cheating, and they're being rewarded with lingots for cheating while everyone below them, people who didn't cheat, get nothing. (even if the reward is arbitrary, it's a matter of lowering morale for the mass majority of people who arent cheating.

November 22, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/krishnabhakta

How will you learn if you do not repeat i do not say it is fair to repeat a basic story 1000 times for xp but you could just decrease the xp amount not just delete it.

November 20, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Janet991386

I do stories over and over again and find it very helpful to hear the story many times in order to understand the language.

November 20, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/2_Paris_Soon

You're mistaken, I fear. Better to rewrite the stories, much as a copy editor does at newspapers, books, TV shows, news programs and even here quite often. You get my point. It's been shown to be much more effective than repeating over and over the same thing. It's a bit more difficult to rewrite, paraphrasing and editing but it is FAR better. Try it. You won't like it right away..... ALSO why not write here in your target language ALL THE TIME.

November 23, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Sillly_Gooose

I think instead of nerfing the XP for skill-practice, make it so that it shuffles your words more. Instead of having a few phrases repeated five times in a single go, have the program randomly take from 3-5 completed lessons

November 20, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/gremedios

Thanks a lot for these clarifications.

November 20, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Fiascokid

Awesome, keep doing whatever you are presently doing, it is working, I am finally enjoying learning a new language as a hobby not as a punishment. As far as the stories goes, I mastered more of my French from these stories than from regular lessons, not to mention they are very nice stories as every day French can be, and with every repeat, I do learn something new, you may cut their XP by half but don't go any further, they are integral part of learning a language. In fact we want more of these lovely stories. I say, anyone who can master all these stories, has practically mastered the language.

November 20, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Michael254537

I've attempted or used all of the methods above. I'm happy y'all are looking for ways to allow us the opportunity gain XP while still learning. Protecting me from me. Thanks.

November 21, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Baldr11

I appreciate the 'heads up' ... two thumbs up.

As a Plus member I totally enjoy doing my work offline. HOWEVER, as a PROFOUNDLY DEAF student I find the latest 'Plus testing' does not allow me to bypass the audio test content & as a result I cannot totally do ANY testing in Plus. Therefore, I do a truckload of revision in order to attempt to become more fluent in my chosen language. Some would call it cheating but it is the only way someone who is PROFOUNDLY deaf can move through the content. Unfortunately I am labelled cheating sometimes. And yet I still cant access all tests due to the audio content.

Would love to be able to bypass this 'glitch' if possible. So far DL is one of the few (VERY few) language platforms that a deaf person can do. Please maintain that for us.

Thanks! & have a lingot. ;)

Baldr.

November 21, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/TeribleT

Baldr, that's definitely not cheating and definitely an issue. There should be a setting in the settings for this. Have you thought about writing to Duolingo and seeing if they can manually adjust your account from their end? Maybe add a no Audio command? Maybe it's possible a chrome or firefox extension would work or could be created? If there is no work around suggested by Duolingo, the only other thing I can think of is to use Google translate. There is an audio imput translation option. I've used it on video clips and it worked pretty well. It's not a great option, but it might be your only one.

November 21, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Baldr11

Hi Terri.

Yeah I did send an email. Maybe I should try again but word it differently ... I didnt mention my hearing loss & like I said DL is a great platform to learn language when ya have 'cloth ears' ... :D

Thanks for your input.

Have some lingots.

:)

Baldr

November 22, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/TeribleT

Baldr, unnecessary but thank you! Please let me know how it turns out! I know one of the other language apps, transparent languages maybe, has audio captioning.

While you are waiting to hear back, You can also try using your phone with the microphone on your keyboard set to your target language (the language you are studying) and press the play audio. Either with the built in keyboard app or with an app like Deaf Pad Pro. You can try it with some text sentences that have audio to see how accurate it is. (Just make sure it's set to the language you're studying or it'll look like gibberish).

Did you search the forum here to see if anyone else who is deaf posted recommendations for Duolingo or resources off the site? Are you planning on learning the foreign sign languages as well?

November 22, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Baldr11

Hey Terri,

Never been shown this app ... THANKS! I bought the 'pro' version but it doesnt always want to work .. groan ... could easily be me not being used to it but still learning how to use the 'translation' function.

Sent dome lingots via mind control ... trust you can use them ... ;)

Baldr.

November 23, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/dlhgl

Did you turn off the speaker in your account settings?:

I just tried the Plus Progress Quiz and didn't have any "Type what you hear" exercises when the speaker was turned off in the settings.

November 22, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Baldr11

I always have my speaker on ... but volume off. Are you saying if I turn it iff completely I won't get audio questions?

Irrespective ... thanks for your reply. :)

EDIT: Just did the tailored quiz ... a 'Type What You Here' question came up & you can't move on until it has been done ... took a screen shot & will send an email. See if something can be done.

EDIT II:

It's done & works!!! I use the DL app about 90% of the time. While there are sound settings in the App they are slightly different to those on the web. So I changed the web sound settings & 'lo & behold' I can do the testing with no audio.

Only took 12 months to find it :o.

I find DL is like a big mansion where one keeps finding new 'rooms' to play in. :)))

Appreciative blessings to you all.

;)

Thanks again. :)

Baldr.

November 23, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/TeribleT

Baldr, that's awesome news! Yay.

December 1, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/VijayKumar917583

I have seen people get a lot of xp in no time...i recently learnt that doing stories give lot of xp...i also was forced to do stories in obsidian league ...my suggestion is for the league, please keep crowns brackets (say, 0-25 for one league...so on...and for repetitions give lesser xp. Make a separate league for stories and others or give the same 15xp value for stories also. or lesser, since it takes just 2 minutes to do a story. the practices are harder to earn xp. i like to earn it through proper way of practicing. i hope making above changes make competing in the leagues worthy, encouraging and fun rather than the present system of awarding xp

November 21, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/SoyEvanLew

Have you considered awarding XP for quizzes? I'm guilty of looking at points rather than effective learning at times but it seems like taking quizzed should add XP. Thanks.

November 21, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/CristyCane1

I'm just amazed at the number of languages these people learn. Wow. Look at all those flags.

November 21, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/JohnWoodwa10

What does nerfing mean ?

November 21, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Amelie629630

Are you experimenting with some people not getting the "Double XPs for 30 minutes" offer in the shop? I have not been offered that option for a couple of weeks now.

November 21, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/frankzalberto

more interesting

November 21, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/OS1618

My first comment! Thank you duolingo, I love this app.

November 21, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/C.hummelyoung

You seem steeped in the language of game update notes. Fellow gamer?

November 21, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Tony995332

Leagues are really cool. It is nice to be with others. The easy solution for repeating stories - give points for repeating once a week (or twice, or three times). Repeating stories is a great learning experience. And having this limit will prompt users to exhaust the limit every week.

November 21, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/ElizaRosen3

Thank you for the clarification, but say someone were to want to get from the bronze league to the silver league, how would one do that?

November 22, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/TeribleT

Eliza, you have to get in the top ten of bronze, then it advances you to the next league. Every time you get in the top ten, you advance (I think for one, ruby maybe? It was the top five... But maybe that's changed). Then during next week's league you move up if you placed in the top ten. If you are in the bottom ten you are demoted back a league. Some people have gotten a glitch where they didn't move up after winning (in first place in a league), but I haven't seen it personally.

November 22, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/ElizaRosen3

Thank you for the info!

November 22, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Stephenson415858

I am having a repeated problem. I complete a section and the please wait box comes up and after an extended period about 2 minutes i am taken back to the subject options. I have not been scored and my progress remains the same as when I started. If I the re-enter the lesson I find that I am going through the same questions. I have just completed for the third time and only got 1 answer wrong and yet still taken back. This is the third day in a row that I have experienced this. It is very frustrating and dispiriting as I cannot progress in the lessons. Has any one else had this?

November 22, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/HopeIsCrazy

I had that trouble a couple times. Both times my husband restarted or rebooted the router and then it worked again. Seeing as I dont even know if its called restarting or rebooting I'm obviously not technically gifted, but the reboot worked when I had the same problem so maybe try that.

November 28, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/dlhgl

I had a similar problem several times yesterday. I completed a lesson, clicked Continue until it showed the language tree again, and then after a moment everything was reset to the state before doing the lesson, and no XP were added.
I agree that this can be frustrating.

November 25, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/BeGoodMike

I love to go back and review old stories, but I would also appreciate the XP from them too. Taking away 24 xp from ppl like me is not fair. I take the time to review them and learn from them. Maybe a time limit of 24 xp for every 5 mins would be more fair. Thank You Duolingo.

November 23, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Sedona2007

Sean, Is there any hope for stories being introduced soon for Italian. I am enjoying them in French. Also, Italian is a MUCH shorter tree than French and doesn't have nearly as many nor as thorough "lightbulb" explanations. Any plans to revise / update the Italian tree? Thanks. I find Duolingo very helpful.

November 23, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Muffie523

Re-Using the stories helps me with pronunciation and my ability to hear the words in context. I enjoy the stories! Job well done, Duolingo!

November 24, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/ZacharyEle

For my 2 cents, I think that the leader boards have really done me a disservice because I am too competitive and have to see what's that next gem. I end up doing meaningless review because I just want to see what the next gem is. Can't help myself. I guess the purists will call it cheating.

As far as meaningful suggestions, I would love to see more XP for harder levels. I'm really getting stuck on the harder levels of Chinese and would love to see a greater reward for getting through those really long and complicated sentences.

In terms of the competition, it seems to me like there are at least two camps out there. Some people just enjoy the competition, even if they are not really learning and others want to compete with those who are going slower and trying to learn a new language. Why not have loose rules for earning XP for the competitive lot and let everyone know the best ways to earn XP, but create another league where you only get some other kind of points (LP) for real learning. You wouldn't get LP for doing anything over again (even after resetting a language), but you can get XP all the time. People can self select if they want maximum point getting (XP) or maximum learning (LP) and compete in the league of their choice.

November 24, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/AnjaliNoronha

What are the ways of getting crowns? I know of only one way - doing the lessons. Are there other ways?

November 24, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/HopeIsCrazy

I believe the only way to earn crowns is by finishing lessons. Some people have massive amounts of crown because they've done multiple languages.

November 28, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Elisems16

I am horrified by the results of Diego's research. I suspect that tonight I will be ejected from the Pearl league after weeks of trying to get ahead with it and failing abysmally to get anywhere near the top ten. This is truly demoralising for me. I really like Duolingo as a learning tool, but learning should always be fun and should go at the learners pace. If people can manipulate the league tables, then the programme loses its academic integrity.

November 24, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/JedSherman2

Excellent. Now can you give me back my old system and ditch the hearts. I was learning way better without them.

November 24, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/arkayy18

I need help. I'm competitive (the cause of growing up with a ton of siblings) and every time I see that leaderboard I just want to really gain xp fast, but it's not helping me actually learn. I'm trying to ignore it right now, but I can't. I need a way to disable it. I'm trying to learn Japanese. I've filled out an entire notebook learning it, and slowly going through duo lessons, but that leaderboard is enticing me to speed through the lessons. It's not helpful with learning. I do not want to compete. I want to learn.

P.S. Sorry about the rant. I figured if I let it off my chest I can successfully ignore it.

November 25, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Sedona2007

Don't know how to do this on phones since I don't really use phone app. On laptop, go to your own icon on for right. This opens a drop down menu.
Go to settings and click on it: this opens another drop down and select privacy. In privacy, UNCLICK "Make my profile public" and save.
This will take your profile private. Unfortunately it also disconnects the ability to follow others and disconnects the ability to allow them to follow you. However, since the leaderboards were added, Duolingo also took away the ability to actually chat with someone you follow or with someone you are following, anyway. Going private means I can't see my REAL friends' progress since I enjoy competing with her. I wish you could JUST DISABLE LEADERBOARDS without disabling following friends.
But if you are a leaderboard competitive adrenaline junky, GOING PRIVATE will get you off the leaderboard while while still allowing you to view and comment in discussions. Hope that helps.

November 25, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/RuNaked

I appreciate the efforts you are putting into correcting the abuse, it does get very frustrating. As far as the stories go, for me personally they have helped me more than anything. They are very useful. I have found that as I repeat them several times I have a better chance of recalling phrases. I was bummed when I found you had reduced the points on repeated stories but I guess I can understand seeing that they are being abused. I am grateful for the platform you have built, it is incredible and I have learned a ton from using it. muchas gracias!

November 25, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Dan286940

One thing would be nice here... if you could change the coloring of the stories? Perhaps all-gray would indicate that there won't be any more points awarded?

I mean, I could still use them for practice for fun. But if I am looking to get some extra points on the leaderboard, it's helpful to know what won't get me any points.

November 26, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Sfw0
  • 236

Glad you are working on fixing the bugs that allow people to cheat. As a very competitive person, I found it very offensive when I realized that people could cheat so easily, but I also have found that even without the cheaters I spent too much time trying to compete on Duolingo, so I finally removed myself from the competition completely. I still work on DL quite a bit every day, but find that I am much more relaxed about it and don't neglect spending time with my wife and family like i was tempted to do when trying compete for the top of the leaderboard.

November 28, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/HopeIsCrazy

Good for you! I wish I were more disciplined and not so worried about the arbitrary things here like leaderboards and counting crowns, etc. I'm sure your wife and family appreciate it too! I waited for my nest to be empty before I started new things, such as duolingo. (If your wife doesn't appreciate it, have her read some of these comments about how much time other people, like myself, spend here. I average probably at least 2 hours a day, 7 days a week, but one day I actually spent 8 hours and none of it in the discussion area.

November 28, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Rip-GHara

I am competitive as well, it is nice to see my kin. The most I have gotten in one week was 25,005 Xp, how about you?

November 28, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/HopeIsCrazy

Wow! And in Korean! I've just started Korean and it's so much harder than languages with the 26 letters I've known since pre-school. The most I got in one week, I think, was around 7,500. I haven't hit a 5 digit week yet. But I'm sure I will eventually! :-) Happy learning!

December 1, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Tarek235537

I wonder if it even possible at all to reach #1 in the diamond league nowadays!

November 29, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/TeribleT

Tarek, I'm in fourth place in a diamond league, 2157xp (just finished my Hebrew tree!). The first guy is mostly farming stories, has 15,400xp, (but has actually also done a few crowns, I think he's getting full credit for repeated stories though, those are all 24 xp and less than 2-3 min per). Second place, 10,100xp is definitely cheating, 38xp per lesson and many of the lessons are at the same time - down to the second. How do you get 38xp lessons and get them all at the same second multiple times a day? Third place is farming stories 26-28xp a story with 5,000xp.

The only way to get to the top is to have stories or be in a league with people who don't have them either. Last week when they made it harder to farm the stories I was in 2nd place, and the top guy was studying Russian. If they don't fix the 'stories xp people' in the league with 'no-story people', there is no way to win. If you don't have stories (or do, but have scruples...) and seriously want to learn a language. There's also no getting around the fact that it's much easier to learn a language in the same language family as your own. I can go through 5 French lessons at the same rate of one Hebrew lesson and 30% of English vocab comes from French, French has audio on every word and sentence, and has stories. So it's not much of a competition when the language you're studying is so much more difficult.

Last week diamond, when they took away the possibility of farming, they had no cheaters, now they've changed it so you can farm xp again, cheaters are back.

December 1, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/HopeIsCrazy

TeribleT- You're so right about the cheating! I hadn't realized that they brought back xp for the short stories until point totals shot up quickly on the leaderboard. Something weird, though, regarding the short stories, some of them give you the full 22-24 pts, other stories only give you 1 pt per each correct answer so you end up with 10-12 pts for those stories, and still others have zero points for rereading them just once in any given day. I don't get why some stories are worth more points than others. I do agree with not giving points everytime time someone rereads thru a story in one day, as that will lead to 'farming', which I will admit I've been guilty of doing. My first week on Duolingo I was on bronze. The next week I was on silver, and I continued to go up a league thru the first 5 levels. On my 5th week I finished in the top 10 (ruby level) and that was the week they added the 5 additional levels. I continued to be in the top 10 thru 4 more levels. But then I was stuck on obsidian for 6-8weeks; no matter how much time I spent working on my Spanish it was never equaled enough to be promoted. I'd go to bed on Saturday, confident of being promoted because I would be in 4th or 5th place. Then on Sunday afternoon, I'm not even in the top 10, by thousands of points! 6- 8 weeks, this happened! So eventually I said... well, I can't say what I said here on Duolingo, but I spent 8 hours of the next Saturday, doing timed practices of every completed circle along with learning the new words on my current circle and that's when I went farming on the stories. And it worked. I got the results that I wanted, which was to be promoted to Diamond level which I think I deserved even though I farmed to get there; I don't think I would have ever made it to diamond without re-reading the stories over and over. This is why I agree with other users that have commented on how Duolingo encourages farming. I don't think that Duolingo designed it so people could or would farm on purpose, though that seems to be the outcome. (I didn't even know the term 'farming' until reading the above comments on this discussion page.) Something else I realized is once one make it to diamond level it's really easy to stay there as long as you continue learning daily. I noticed the few people that end up in the bottom 5, the few that go down a level, often have only 2 or 3 digits of xp for the week. I can't imagine getting to an upper level and then not bothering to get even the minimum xp to stay on that level, considering how difficult it is to get there in the first place.

December 1, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Mellane1969

Can we go back to the 2 pts, 1 pt, 0 pts, for stories set either daily or weekly. Preferably daily. The change has really demotivated me from the stories.

November 30, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/tatacgarces

Hello to all! thank you for the comments and explanations about this subject. My discomfort is when I go to see who is on the leader board with me and there is people with 6.000 xp in total, that just for not allowing us other learners to achieve the 3 first places, make XPS so fast that makes no sense. I think this is encouraging the "bad competitor in me, I do not repeat stories, yet I am accusing them in each language I can, (learning a lot, BTW...:) but with a bad taste in my student soul... I get frustrated when I see this guy with a total so low, making in 6 days 30% of the total XP... I came to look if I was feeling strange with it for no good reason, yet I can see here my intuition was right. There is people cheating on XP leader board. Please continue the good work on adapting it, I love that is encouraging me, but to a certain point, my ego enters when I see injustice :) sorry for that part.

December 1, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/AnjaliNoronha

Sean - i think your post has generated very good feedback on the leaderboards. I've been browsing through the responses as well - and it's pretty clear that most of the Duolingo users are finding the present system of leaderboards counterproductive. Even if it motivates practice, it is not the kind of practice that helps language learning. In fact, it detracts from better language learning practice, like writing, reviewing, practicing orally etc. It is attracting people who are competitive in fact highly competitive who are skewing the system terribly. It is also making others like me addictive without as much benefit of the real purpose - language learning. I have, in an earlier message suggested ways in which the leaderboards should be revised or substituted by a better system. Do analyse then and respond on all the counts

December 2, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/DarkJewel

Hi, Im Fern. I've had an idea I'd like to share. Please take a minute to contribute to Duolingo! https://forum.duolingo.com/comment/35355698 Infine Thank You's! Fern

December 2, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/hugh156553

not saying anyting bad, but i have put up a 1000xp day and it was long and hard, but this person put up an 1100XP day that seemed to go really fast. Hopefully on the up and up. Isabela (Isabela788299)

December 2, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/jdsaxton

Looks legit - click on 'raw' https://duome.eu/Isabela788299 She's done lots of stories for 24 points

December 2, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/johnrearic

I do very well on the lessons and practices. But, unfortunately, I have to repeat the stories a number of times before they become easy for me...not trying to gain points, just fluency.

December 3, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/butterscotchmrrw

While you folks are at it, how about making it possible for people who are following each other to be able to talk to each other. As the English expression goes, practice makes perfect. Also, how about putting us in leagues with people learning the same language. Some languages are comparably easier or harder. An English speaker learning Spanish should be pitted against an English speaker learning Chinese. Some languages have more complexity and may be infinitely more time consuming to reach the same level of xp. Therefore, I suggest we be separated into different leagues for different languages.

December 3, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/LadyLaura88

I actually do like that idea.

December 3, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/KoJaineAhau

:_( I repeat practice a skill until I get 15xps on it (sometimes if I've been a way for awhile I'll do very poorly on a practice). I understand the need to stop the cheating but feel bummed out that people like me are getting penalised for it.

Also, I don't even know what stories are? Are they not on all languages?

December 3, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/mZDnC3Du

I dont like the new way of scoring. I like to do each section 3 times and if i am struggling maybe more. I attempt to get 600 points a day and I find it useful to be able to keep score and am not actually bothered about the leaderboads. Can we have the points back please but have an otion to opt out of the leaderboards. How about a "private score" that does not count to a leaderboard but helps us keep score of how much we have done in a day?

December 3, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/AndroidKanada

Thanks - if Duolingo communicated clearly and frankly like this more often, many fewer users would be rankled by changes.

BTW, this is a useful lesson on what extrinsic reward structures do to behavior, and it's applicable outside Duolingo.

December 3, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/RaydenHebe

If I could give more thumbs up I would This was very helpfull

December 3, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Brennan.Bro

ya it is ridiculous who cares if your first in the leader board if you are not learning a language then you are just ruining everyone else's experience of duolingo so all you hackers STOP IT it is not worth it what do you get to say I won the Diamond league by hacking duolingo? that's not worth it if your not learning a language there is no point to being on duolingo

December 3, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/SabineBergmann1

you are speakıng out of my soul. I gave up on the leaderboards before, but now I have fun again. We can now repeat lessons as often as we want, but for the second time we don't 'earn' XP. that makes the competition fairer. thank you Duo to give me back my fun in this competition! There may be still cheaters but now it does not make sense any more to repeat the basic lesson of a language for hours and hours in order to 'earn' XP. And the people only interested in learning can repeat their lessons as often as they want. That is great and helps all of us.

December 4, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Solcommand

Personally I love this leaderboard thing. I just came back to Duolingo after like almost a year and I restarted my japanese lesson. I only wanted to put in like half hour in it, but soon after I found myself in 2nd place in the leaderboard by complete mistake, then I turned ultra competitive and went for the 1st spot, cause why not, and here I am half a day later still on Duolingo, still learning japanese, and I've been #1 for quite a few hours now. There's this user called Alyssa that's been right on my tail all day, think I found my arch-rival. I'll let her pass me tonight, but tomorrow I'll be back hehe.

December 3, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Brennan.Bro

Ya i like the leader boards but i don't like having no chance of getting first because of some hackers

December 5, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/AnjaliNoronha

How much time are you spending on duo lingo per day?

December 4, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/AnjaliNoronha

@solcommand How much time are you spending on duo lingo per day?

December 4, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Solcommand

Well as I said I only just got back, so it's too soon to give a number, but yesterday something like 10 hours maybe, today a couple hours so far

December 4, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/jams1559

repeating stories helps ALOT. it helps me make certain phrases second nature. it is like memorizing dialogs from a spanish textbook, which I did 50 years ago. It also helps me train my ear in an environment where I would otherwise rarely hear Spanish.

Also bring back the duolingo tinycards and the xp for tinycards. how can doing vocabulary not be helpful?

December 4, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/_myr_

OK. I have landed in a league with no cheaters, it seems. I checked all of the people in my league and none of them have acted suspiciously in the last weeks. What a relief. So I would feel really guilty leveraging stories to compete with them, so I'm not doing that. I have repeated all the lessons in the language I really want to focus on. I did a couple of stories, but it felt weird. I then started trying to complete the lessons that remain unfinished, but this got really boring, so I did general practice rounds for awhile and these got really hard and I got really tired, so I went to bed in the #1 position. Today there was one person really close to me at #2 so I went to another language I had started and began doing the lessons from the beginning. I made some mistakes, but I couldn't repeat the lessons except for 0 XP which seems really unfair. It is really unfair not to be able to repeat lessons in any language at any level and get XP for it. So I'm feeling like I would want to opt out of the leagues at some point so that I would have freedom to repeat anything I want to and earn XP or something for it, but my question is:

IF I OPT OUT OF THE LEAGUES, WILL I STILL NOT BE ABLE TO EARN XP WHEN I REPEAT THINGS?

That would be REALLY awful! Duolingo is sacrificing the reward system for honest learning in order to keep the Leagues alive. This is so wrong!

December 4, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/_myr_

I wonder if it would be possible to accrue XP for repeated lessons and Stories, but have a different counter for League participation - so that you'd still earn XP for repetitions and feel like you're achieving something, but not get League points for repetitions. This way, people who don't care about getting to the top in their League won't be penalized for repeating things. You could completely turn off repetitions for earning League points without affecting XP accrual. Attention SeanColumbo and any other Duolingo Team Member.

December 4, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/BaggyT

Well, the problem will now be that those with the higher fluency will always win the leaderboards... because they will have access to more skills and will be able to earn one set of XP off each skill, potentially earning 20 XP from each one. Those of us who are less fluent will only have access to a few skills, and may not even get 20 XP in a practice, but then will be barred from earning any more XP from it. The only way a less fluent user will be able to gain more XP is to attempt more skills, but then there will be a lot of new content, and therefore lower XP earned anyway.

This actually places a ceiling on the amount of XP that can be learned in one day. Let's say I have access to 10 skills. That's a maximum of 200 XP that I can earn, unless I unlock a new skill. Let's say I'm a keen learner and decide to learn 5 new skills a day. I get XP for those new skills, but it won't come near someone who has 100 skills unlocked and practises every skill every day.

I was enjoying the fun of the leaderboards, seeing how far I could get promoted, but now I think I'll just turn it off, unless something changes.

December 4, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/nurann6

I am trying my best studying on duolingo,I give my full energy and dedication but when I come and see on the emerald league a user who was 500 xps lower than me passes me by 500 xps and tops the leageu in two hours then it is not nice and it kills my desire to compete.I know it is not about competing it is about learning but competition is a part of my persoanlity and it fuels me.

December 4, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/BaggyT

Also, look at it from this perspective, with the new rules: I have 31 skills available for me to practise (across 3 languages). You have 54 skills available for you to practise (across 6 languages). If we both practise all of our available skills everyday, you would gain more XP than me and I don't have a chance to beat you on the leaderboard. Now, how would you feel if someone was in the group who had 300 skills available to them (perhaps across 8 languages)?

This is a major problem with the new system.

December 4, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/_myr_

Duolingo should make a separate scale for League participation so that ALL practice gets rewarded with XP, even repetitions. For the League scale, though, only non-repeated exercises would be counted towards placement in the leaderboard for the week. This would hopefully foil the cheaters and make everyone happy who is honestly needing repetitions to learn. It's weird to repeat a lesson and get nothing for it.

December 4, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/BaggyT

Very good suggestion. I hope it gets noticed!

December 4, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Neeny19

Why was XP for repeated skill practice reduced for iOS users only? I found it so helpful to keep practicing until I felt I'd really learned the lessons.

December 4, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/SPANISHLEARNERS5

665th comment go go go everyone keep upvoteing!

December 4, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/CeeBee450382

My own repetition of previous lessons and stories have improved my reading abilities. Going back to the introductory stories has made me aware of how much I've learned. Repeating skills as drill has also made serious improvements in my language reflexes

December 4, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Drosa3712

Thanks for explaining this. I like the leaderboards but yes, I was kind of baffled at how people who were working along at the same level as I was were suddenly 100 points ahead in the space of 20 minutes! What happens when you are in the Diamond League? I don't see any promotion/demotion zones? Anyway, I'm learning a lot. Great learning tool!

December 5, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/jagsduolingo

Maybe I'm naive, but I didn't even realise one could do these things. I just get on with it.

When 'repairing' - if I wasn't satisfied with my performance in the test - I would repeat it. (I'm a bit of a perfectionist so I'm not happy unless I get all 20 questions correct.) I then noticed that, after I'd done it, I got a notice saying there were no XP points available. I understand whey, now, but it's a bit annoying getting the notification AFTERWARDS. How about a notice in advance?

December 5, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/kfitz00

I like many of the new updates, especially taking away the ability to game the system to earn points. What I really do not like is how little practice and review there is in level four of the lesson. Currently there are only four exercises in each level. That is simply not enough to gain proficiency. I agree that before 20 lessons were too many but now there are way too few. I hope you increase the number for those of us who actually want to learn the language. I am trying to gain fluency for my work. The repetition was very good for my retention. Those who don't want to do all the repetition can test out of that lesson.

December 5, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Todd26

What do the different levels represent? Red, green, Gold, amethyst. What are the different leagues? How does one move between them? Is it just the top 3 get a medal? What is special about the top 10?

December 5, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/_Lukekook_

commenting at 666 upvotes

December 5, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Pierre733333

can we have Stories in other languages ( for me that would be Russian Greek and Italian(?

December 5, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Arts1809

Do we have stories for French language for Android? I don't get but I can see them if I login through web browser to my account? My apps is up to date.

December 5, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/KioussiTsi

I have completed the two parts of El Cazador story and you don't open part 3 for me, why?

December 5, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/TravisStev17

just wanted to say, the leader boards pushed me hard today and as a result i got through practices faster and retained a lot more as i am a very subconscious learner when it comes to these sort of things. so for that i thank you

December 5, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/SamuelSton611311

thanks

December 5, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Sophie378897

The leader boards actually pushed me to do better! I used to get only 14 Xp a day, but now I actually get 200!

December 5, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/NyahWillia5

Is geting the XP haed to get. And are you good at specking frech? Is it hared for you

December 5, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/AdelaineHrtSng

I've got a suggestion, something that would really help me and I suspect others.

What if, when we reach 500 XP in a day, we got an XP boost? And then another at 1000, 1500, etc.

I can do 1000 in a day; but, it gets to be a slog and I haven't done it since I hit Obsidian and Diamond leagues and lost all hope of topping the boards. And, honestly, I stopped playing for a bit because it suddenly became boring.

Most days I can hit 300 - 400 before I get bored and if there were a shiny at 500 XP, and a shiny that'll by it's nature push me further to get the most out of it, it'd really help.

Heck, it might give me hope that I could at least hit the top 10 in Diamond. I could probably pull off 1500 XP on weekends with the boosts to motivate me...

December 6, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Natea74

Nice :)

December 6, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Bill8803

test

December 6, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Garlicbread10

THANKS.

December 6, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/TomAnglim1

I like the challenge of the Leagues. They are an interesting way to motivate effort and measure progress. But how is it possible for someone to earn 12,649 XP? There must be a way to control this feature.

December 6, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/StephenCavan

Last week I had issues with people racking up 1500 XP per hour, and it is happening again. Solast night 24 XP in 60 sec; 24 in 19 secs; 24 in 9 secs. First how do people get 24XP per set. a perfect set for me is 15 XP. How do people complete something in 9 secs? or 19 secs? I cannot physically type faster than a set per minute.

December 6, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/_myr_

It's very suspicious. I would report the user to abuse@duolingo.com.

December 6, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/StephenCavan

I have this time, and I did last time as well, but they say it is fine.

December 6, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Mrs.H349723

They’re probably practicing stories. Those give 24 xp if you get the whole thing right. How they do it in a handful of seconds, i have no idea.

December 6, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/TeribleT

2nd and third place yes, but first she isn't. And she's studying Spanish. So there are stories. Isn't that weird?

December 6, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Mrs.H349723

Sounds like it

December 6, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/JohnMTL

Leaderboards shouldn't become pissing contests. Seems many are more preoccupied with scoring points rather than learning, and yes, of course, they should both complement each other. To make it more interesting, those who see this as a contest should challenge others to death matches, winner takes all XP and gems.

December 7, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/mahatana

Good luck with that. This thing showed up in the app without warning. Take my xp? I'll just say goodbye.

December 9, 2019, 1:24 PM

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/TerryLovesYou

if you comment on this u get lingots sooo just gonna leave this here

December 8, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Amore401870

What?

December 9, 2019, 1:35 PM

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/TeribleT

If they stopped xp farming how are people getting 5,000 xp in a few hours each day?

December 10, 2019, 4:56 AM

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Mrs.H349723

Unfortunately, I doubt they will really be able to completely stop the cheaters. I’ve seen this countless times in other competitive apps. There’s nothing that stops the cheaters from making a new account and continuing to do it. I’m not sure if its worth the resources that are required to keep up with something they’ll never truly be able to stop. The potentially wasted resources could be spent on the development of the app. TBH, I don’t care one way or the other anymore. I’m learning a ton and this app makes it fun for me.

December 10, 2019, 6:00 AM

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Moonshadow04

Thank you!!

November 15, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/-Hodge-

Cool

November 16, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/arad718544

hm

November 17, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Heike333145

Thank you for the update! This sounds very promising.

Thank you very much for all the work you do.

November 17, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Val147321

I have completed all the stories in Set 1 but Set 2 is still not available. Is there something I should do to open them?

November 17, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/DTEssence

Eagerly watching the boards and my points for activities this week ^^ i'm liking the everyone under 50XP in the first halfhour I see atm :)

November 18, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Gary779942

I have been in the sapphire league for eternity and normally don't bother looking at the leader board because there are always people who have 2000 points by Tuesday night. I had some plans fall through this afternoon so, I jumped on line. I was surprised to see that the number 10 spot was only 180 points away so I spent the afternoon doing lessons. I finished 2 old lessons, almost completed a new one and then did 2 stories. With 5 minutes to go, I was in 8th place and at the end of the session it congratulated me on my 8th place and welcome me to the sapphire league: exactly where I was before. Obviously, very discouraging. I can appreciate the competitive nature of the leader board but, if it doesn't work right, or abused, its worthless. I had the extra time so I got some good learning in and had fun doing it so it was definitely time well spent. At the end of the day, though, a little that-a boy would have been nice for going the extra mile. I think friendly competition can be beneficial if it's on a level playing field. I guess from now on I will stick to my 20.. 40 ... maybe 50XP per day. Lingo on.

November 18, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/1Wildone

Set 50 for a daily goal but go for 200. :-).

December 7, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Andreas83

I too feel that the leader board is somewhat motivating me, even though I don't particularly like it.

Nor do I tend to be in the Top 10. But that's sort of ok. I know that there are people more dedicated (or even cheating) than me. That is always going to be the case, with league assignment being largely random. I've got a job and other interests. I still enjoy Duolingo and I believe it benefits my language skills.

And to advance every week would mean to increase your XP per week every week, considerably.

Not everybody can win the leader board, all the time. We all are on a continuum. Some people feel like they shouldn't enjoy golf when they have no chance of ever beating Tiger Woods.

November 18, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/RQWelt

I think that it's good to put a cap on the stories repetition. But what is this cap exactly?

For me, for a week I don't seem to get any more points for stories that I did more than twice (regular amount of points the first repetition, half amount during the second repetition, zero points from the third repetition on). Meanwhile, I have friends that keep repeating the same stories and get all the points.

So, when does this cap gets reset? Once a day? Once per week? Per month? Never?

While I admit that I used stories myself for farming (mainly because everyone in top 10 seemed to be doing the same), I also prefer them because unlike the exercises in Duolingo, they have a red thread, they make some sense, there is a context. And this is for me very important in learning.

November 18, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/SeanColombo

The cap resets for each Story, each day.

If others aren't seeing the same experience, that's because we're running it as an experiment. We have to run for a while to get statistically significance and ensure that changes are actually helping increase learning when we think they will.

November 18, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/RQWelt

Thanks for the quick answer! I would be actually very satisfied with this option.

But this means I encountered a bug (no reset on the lessons I went through for one week). I reported it to Duolingo a few days ago, but no reply yet. Hope it will be solved.

November 18, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/TeribleT

Sean, thank you for taking the time to explain everything (and your efforts behind the scenes!) to make this a more useful (and less... frustrating) experience.

November 20, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Emma63194

I appreciate you trying to stop the cheating, but here is something I've noticed and my thoughts on this. I've noticed that you can't get xp anylonger when practicing golden skills. I undertand why this has been done, but it inconveniences me. When I have a busy day, I go to quickly keep my streak up and get a practice lesson, which means I go back to my gold lessons and quickly do two of those. I simply don't have time to struggle with new lessons each day, and don't like using multiple streak freezes in a row because it makes me feel unpreductive. Maybe perhaps add in a "Quick Practice" option where we can go over our old stuff AND get xp from it? Thank you for your consideration.

November 18, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/TeribleT

Emma, I don't know what platform you are using, but are you sure about that? I practice gilded skills, but recently, usually only when they're cracked (I am 3 crowns away from completing the Hebrew tree, so most of my tree is gilded). I mostly use the Android app, occasionally the website (so I can access Duolingo extensions). You can only do it once on the website for 10 xp (plus the bonuses) per skill, per day. On the app, it's 10xp (plus bonus) the first time, 5xp the second, then none after that per day. Unless it's different in iOS or there is an a/b test running, that's what happens.

(Ok, i just checked it by doing a gilded, non-cracked one to see if this was still the case. In the Android app, after you "practice" a gilded skill you get 10-15xp the first time, and if you go do the same skill again, it's 5 xp. On the web, first is the same, second is 0 xp - per day. So it's as it was before).

November 20, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/2022.brady

k

November 18, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/greendragon9

I think I have an error in my Lingots - Somehow I got over 21,000. I've only been actively learning for about 50 days. I do try to get in about 200 points a day, but 21,000 is ridiculously high. I suspect a bug.

November 18, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Nirup1

Thanks Sean for the clarification. But could you make a change in heart and give a option of either gems or hearts. This is because my account suddenly changed to gems from hearts today. Thank you.

November 18, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Jamiermj98

test

November 18, 2019