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  5. "Post primam horam mane est."

"Post primam horam mane est."

Translation:After the first hour is early.

November 21, 2019

24 Comments


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Wolfjackle

What is the subject of this sentence supposed to be? The translation that was marked right for me is "After the first hour is early" which is rather confusing in English. Is there a missing "it"? So it could read "After the first hour it is early" with an implied still before early?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/blobmbumg

That makes much more sense


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/DavidDKleiner

Shouldn't it accept "The morning is after the first hour"?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/JMR453452

Classicist here. I concur.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/2w51S8uZ

Do they know that this is atrocious English? Perhaps those writing the course are beginning English speakers.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/mbrasseau

No. There are just phrases that have no appreciate translation. This is true for all languages.

English grammar is not the goal here. The goal is understanding the latin meaning.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Erik965703

Fair point! But what is the meaning of this sentence?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Gridkeeper

We can't understand or translate the meaning of the Latin phrase if the English doesn't make sense. I mean, come on.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/judithmack

This sentence seems to need "still" added to it as in "... it is still early", only we haven't been taught how to say that yet in Latin. Surely Latin has a way of conveying that sense.

Also, more importantly, can't "mane" be translated by "in the morning"? Going by this sentence, "mane " seems to mean "early in the day" and, previous to this, Duo gave us a picture of a sunrise and the caption "morning" and we were expected to twin it with the Latin "mane".

In translating previous examples I've taken "mane" to have the sense of "before schedule" rather than "early in the day". I presume it can be used in both senses.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/AnLxoP

You make a lot of sense. Still is adhuc in Latin. Having learning Latin for a while, I never knew that mane could mean anything else than morning.

By the way, mane is indeclinable, in case you haven't known this. That means it is the same in all cases.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/2w51S8uZ

Morning is after the first hour if the parrots are drunk . Sometimes duolingo is inconsistent and "stultus" !


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/PauloMuffato

This language is seriously confusing without some 'hints'. I recommend using that on the web version as Duo on mobile doesn't support it.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/blobmbumg

Wouldn't it make more sense if this sentence was "After the first hour it is early"?After all that would be proper English grammar.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/BellaPeh

Not for an alcoholic parrot.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/JMR453452

"Mane" isn't an adjective, it's an adverb or a noun (see Lewis and Short's comprehensive Latin dictionary.) This translation doesn't work. To say "After the first hour it is early," you'd have to say something like Horae post primam matutinae sunt."


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/ArielMedin948128

Maybe, morning does not begin after the first hour.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/AlexandrSantos

Okay, this translation is borderline incomprehensible to me. At first I thought it was supposed to mean "it's past one o'clock in the morning" or "It's after 1 AM", with an implied "it" as the subject and everything else but the verb as the object, thus taking the accusative case (primam horam). But the translation implies that "after the first hour" is the subject of the sentence and "early" is akin to a predicative (as in the object of a linking verb), so how come it doesn't take the nominative case ("post prima hora manis est")?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Moopish

mane as a noun meaning 'morning' is indeclinable and is always mane, never manis.

Based on Lewis and Short, the usage as a noun is more poetic or later Latin which may be why they are translating it as an adverb here.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/AlexandrSantos

I get that, but why does "prima hora" take the accusative case "primam horam" instead of the nominative in this sentence if its function is akin to the subject of "esse" ?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Moopish

It is in the accusative since it is the object of the preposition post. Post takes an accusative.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/AlexandrSantos

Thanks for the in-depth explanation, it was very thoroughly and I highly appreciate it. As a native speaker of a Romance language, and having learned a couple of other Romance languages throughout my life, all the examples you listed make sense to me. The infinitive is our go-to verb form whenever a verb functions as a noun (as opposed to English, in which the gerund is the preferred form) and the double-accusative also makes perfect sense if there are two verbs (amo and video) that take a direct object, joined by reported speech. Come to think about it my issue with this "post primam horam mane est" is not so much with the Latin itself (since I am no expert in Latin), as it is with the English translation. "After the first hour is early" sounds rather clunky as a standalone sentence, and I literally see no reason as to why the tranlation doesn't show up as "it's early after one o'clock".


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Moopish

Fair enough, glad I could be of help.

I agree the English is very awkward.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/AlexandrSantos

There is no subject in this sentence, then? Ok that makes sense, I guess.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Moopish

I think some grammarians may consider post primam horam as the subject but that's not overly important.

I think the course as is doesn't fully explore how forms of esse (here est) can link words together, since sometimes they won't be a standard noun in the nominative.

Sometimes you will see an infinitive used as the subject, such as the saying: Errare humanum est ('To err is human').

Sometimes you will see esse linking two accusatives together. Like in this example sentence (hope I don't make any mistakes): Marcus Liviam quam amicam suam est videt ('Marcus sees Livia who is his friend').

I hope this gets explained better at some point since that may help (I am sure my explanation will not be sufficient).

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