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https://www.duolingo.com/profile/PERCE_NEIGE

How to translate possessive in Latin?

I make a memento here, the goal is to have everything about the pronoun in one page that could be bookmarked, because the different forms of the pronoun in Latin are sometimes confusing, for beginners like me.
Please correct any errors. (or rather: all the errors)

(Note: The general order of the declensions in this post are Nom. Voc. Acc. Gen. Dat. Abl (NVAc GDA), but sometimes vocative is skipped.)

Declensions of Ego: I

Ego I as subject pronoun. Or as tonic pronoun, like French "moi"
Me Me old forms: med, mehe
Mei of me/my my: see below
Mihi to me/my also a way to say "my"
Me with/by me old form: med

Declensions of Meus: my/mine

Meus My (mine) sing. masc. owned item
Mi Ô my...! Ô mine! sing. masc. owned item
Meum My (mine) acc. sing., sing. masc owned item
Mei of my (of mine) gen. sing., sing. masc owned item
Meo to my (to mine) sing. masc. owned item
Meo with/by my/mine sing. masc. owned item
Mea My (mine) sing. fem. owned item
Mea Ô my...! Ô mine! sing. fem. owned item
Meam My (mine) acc. sing., sing. fem. owned item
Meae of my (of mine) gen. sing. fem. owned item
Meae to my (to mine) sing. fem. owned item
Mea with/by my/mine sing. fem. owned item
Meum My (mine) sing. neut. owned item
Meum Ô my...! Ô mine! sing. neut. owned item
Meum My (mine) acc. sing. neut. owned item
Mei of my (of mine) gen. sing. neut. owned item
Meo to my (to mine) sing. neut. owned item
Meo with/by my/mine sing. neut. owned item

Plural owned things:

Mei My (mine) plural, masculine owned items
Mei Ô my...! Ô mine! plural, masculine owned items
Meos My (mine) acc. plural, masculine owned items
Meorum of my (of mine) gen. plural, masc. old form: Meum
Meis to my (to mine) plural, masculine owned items
Meis with/by my/mine plural, masculine owned items
Meae My (mine) plural, feminine owned items
Meae Ô my...! Ô mine! plural, feminine owned items
Meas My (mine) acc. plural, feminine owned items
Mearum of my (of mine) plural, feminine owned items
Meis to my (to mine) plural, feminine owned items
Meis with/by my/mine plural, feminine owned items
Mea My (mine) plural, neutral owned items
Mea Ô my...! Ô mine! plural, neutral owned items
Mea My (mine) acc. plural, neutral owned items
Meorum of my (of mine) plural, neutral owned items
Meis to my (to mine) plural, neutral owned items
Meis with/by my/mine plural, neutral owned items
  • So "my" for a sing. masc. could be Meus, or Mihi (a possession to me)
    For sing. fem: Mea, or Mihi.
    For sing. neut: Meum, or Mihi. etc...
    (because Mihi is a declension of "I" not of "meus")

Declensions of Tu: you (subject, singular you)

Tu You (subject)
Te You (acc.) old form: Ted
Tui Your/of you old form: Tis
Tibi Your/to you old form Tibe
Te with/by you

Declensions of Tuus (your)

Tuus Your (yours) sing. masc. owned item (old form: Tuos)
Tue Ô your...! Ô yours! sing. masc. owned item
Tuum your/yours acc. sing. masc. owned item
Tui of your/of yours sing. masc. owned item
Tuo to your/to yours sing. masc. owned item
Tuo with/by your (yours) sing. masc. owned item
Tua Your (yours) sing. fem. owned item
Tua Ô your...! Ô yours! sing. fem. owned item
Tuam your/yours acc. sing. fem. owned item
Tuae of your/of yours sing. fem. owned item
Tuae to your/to yours sing. fem. owned item
Tua with/by your (yours) sing. fem. owned item
Tuum Your (yours) sing. neut. owned item
Tuum Ô your...! Ô yours! sing. neut. owned item
Tuum your/yours acc. sing. neut. owned item
Tui of your/of yours sing. neut. owned item
Tuo to your/to yours sing. neut. owned item
Tuo with/by your (yours) sing. neut. owned item

For plural owned things:

Tui Your (yours) plural, masc owned item
Tui Ô your...! Ô yours! plural, masc owned item
Tuos your/yours acc. plural, masc owned item
Tuorum of your/of yours old form: Tuom
Tuis to your/to yours plural, masc owned item
Tuis with/by your (yours) plural, masc owned item
Tuae Your (yours) plural, feminine owned item
Tuae Ô your...! Ô yours! plural, feminine owned item
Tuas your/yours acc. plural, feminine owned item
Tuarum of your/of yours plural, feminine owned item
Tuis to your/to yours plural, feminine owned item
Tuis with/by your (yours) plural, feminine owned item
Tua Your (yours) plural, neutral owned item
Tua Ô your...! Ô yours! plural, neutral owned item
Tua your/yours acc. plural, neut. owned item. old form: Tuom
Tuorum of your/of yours plural, neutral owned item
Tuis to your/to yours plural, neutral owned item
Tuis with/by your (yours) plural, neutral owned item

Declensions of "is" = he.

Is = He.
Ea = She.
Id = It.
Ei (ii)= They (masculine or mixed genders).....................old form: Eeis
Eae = They (feminine)
Ea = They (neuter)
Eum = Him (acc.)...................................................old form: Em
Eam = Her (acc.)
Id = It (acc.)
Eos = them (acc. masculine or mixed)
Eas = them (acc. fem.)
Ea = them (acc. neut.)
Eius/ejus = genitive Sing. for masc. fem. and neut= His, Her, Its
Eorum = gen. Plur masc
Earum = gen. Plur fem
Eorum = gen. Plur neut.
Ei = dative to him.......................................... old form Eiei
Ei = to her
Ei = to it
Eis (iis) = to them (masc. or mixed)...........old form Eieis, Ibus
Eis (iis) = to them (fem.)...............................old form Ibus
Eis (iis) = to them (neut.)..............................old form Ibus
Eo = with/by him (ablative)
Eo = with/by her
Eo = with/by it
Eis (iis)= with/by them (masc or mixed)......old form Ibus
Eis (iis)= with/by them (fem)..........................old form Ibus
Eis (iis)=with/by them (neut)..........................old form Ibus

Declension of Suus (his, her, its)

Note: the gender depends of the gender of the possessed object, like for the other pronouns
and not of the gender of the owner.

Suus his, her (hers), its sing. masc. owned item
Sue Ô his/her/its...! Ô hers! sing. masc. owned item
Suum his, her, its acc. sing. masc. owned item
Sui of his, of her (of hers), of its sing. masc. owned item
Suo to his, to her (to hers), to its sing. masc. owned item
Suo with his, her (hers), hits/by his, her (hers), its sing. masc. owned item
Sua his, her (hers), its sing. fem.. owned item
Sua Ô his/her/its...! Ô hers! sing. fem.. owned item
Suam his, her, its acc. sing. fem.. owned item
Suae of his, of her (of hers), of its sing. fem.. owned item
Suae to his, to her (to hers), to its sing. fem.. owned item
Sua with his, her (hers), hits/by his, her (hers), its sing. fem.. owned item
Suum his, her (hers), its sing. neutral owned item
Suum Ô his/her/its...! Ô hers! sing. neutral owned item
Suum his, her, its acc. sing. neutral owned item
Sui of his, of her (of hers), of its sing. neutral owned item
Suo to his, to her (to hers), to its sing. neutral owned item
Suo with his, her (hers), hits/by his, her (hers), its sing. neutral owned item

For plural owned things:

Sui his, her (hers), its Plural masc. owned items
Sui Ô his/her/its...! Ô hers! sing. neutral owned item
Suos his, her, its in acc. old form: Sos
Suorum of his, of her (of hers), of its old form: Suvorum
Suis to his, to her (to hers), to its Plural masc. owned items
Suis with his, her (hers), hits/by his, her (hers), its Plural masc. owned items
Suae his, her (hers), its Plural feminine owned items
Suae Ô his/her/its...! Ô hers! Plural feminine owned items
Suas his, her, its acc. Plural feminine owned items
Suarum of his, of her (of hers), of its Plural feminine owned items
Suis to his, to her (to hers), to its Plural feminine owned items
Suis with his, her (hers), hits/by his, her (hers), its Plural feminine owned items
Sua his, her (hers), its Plural neutral owned items
Sua Ô his/her/its...! Ô hers! Plural neutral owned items
Sua his, her, its acc. Plural neutral owned items
Suorum of his, of her (of hers), of its Plural neutral owned items
Suis to his, to her (to hers), to its Plural neutral owned items
Suis with his, her (hers), hits/by his, her (hers), its Plural neutral owned items
  • So, to say his/her/its, for singular things,
    you would say Eius (genitive), or Ei (to him, to her, to it)
    For plural things: Eorum, or Eis (to him, to it)
    Or Earum for her (to her)

When we need to say it's his own
Eg: he hides his (own) key.
We use for sing, masculine owned things: suus, or sui.


Declensions of "nos" (we)

Nos We
Nos Us, reflexive us (like ourself)
Nostri/Nostrum of us old forms: Nostrarum, Nostrorum
Nobis to us
Nobis With us/by us

Declensions of "noster" = our.

Noster Our/ours sing. masc. owned item
Noster Ô our...! Ô ours! sing. masc. owned item
Nostrum Our/ours acc. sing. masc. owned item
Nostri of our, of ours sing. masc. owned item
Nostro to our, to ours sing. masc. owned item
Notro by our/ours, with our/ours sing. masc. owned item
Nostra Our/ours sing. fem. owned item
Nostra Ô our...! Ô ours! sing. fem. owned item
Nostram Our/ours acc. sing. fem. owned item
Nostrae of our, of ours sing. fem. owned item
Nostrae to our, to ours sing. fem. owned item
Nostra by our/ours, with our/ours sing. fem. owned item
Nostrum Our/ours sing. neutral owned item
Nostrum Ô our...! Ô ours! sing. neutral owned item
Nostrum Our/ours acc. sing. neutral owned item
Nostri of our, of ours sing. neutral owned item
Nostro to our, to ours sing. neutral owned item
Nostra by our/ours, with our/ours sing. neutral owned item

For plural owned things:

Nostri Our/ours Plural masc. owned items
Nostri Ô our...! Ô ours! Plural masc. owned items
Nostros Our/ours acc. Plural masc. owned items
Nostrorum of our, of ours Plural masc. owned items
Nostris to our, to ours Plural masc. owned items
Nostris by our/ours, with our/ours Plural masc. owned items
Nostrae Our/ours Plural fem. owned items
Nostrae Ô our...! Ô ours! Plural fem. owned items
Nostras Our/ours acc. Plural fem. owned items
Nostrarum of our, of ours Plural fem. owned items
Nostris to our, to ours Plural fem. owned items
Nostris by our/ours, with our/ours Plural fem. owned items
Nostra Our/ours Plural neutral owned items
Nostra Ô our...! Ô ours! Plural neutral owned items
Nostra Our/ours acc. Plural neutral owned items
Nostrorum of our, of ours old form: Nostrum
Nostris to our, to ours Plural neutral owned items
Nostris by our/ours, with our/ours Plural neutral owned items
  • So, to mean "our", for masc. singular things:
    you would say Noster, or Nobis (possession to us).
    Noster declined according to the gender and the number of the owned thing(s)
    But in every cases, Nobis.

Declensions of "vos": you (subject, plural you)

Vos You (subject, nom.)
Vos You (object, acc.)
Vestri/vestrum of you
Vobis to you
Vobis with you/by you

Declension of "voster": your

Voster Your/yours. sing. masc. owned item
Voster Ô your...! Ô yours! sing. masc. owned item
Vostrum Your/yours acc. sing. masc. owned item
Vostri of your, of yours sing. masc. owned item
Vostro to your, to yours sing. masc. owned item
Vostro by your/yours, with your/yours sing. masc. owned item
Vostra Your/yours. sing. feminine owned item
Vostra Ô your...! Ô yours! sing. feminine owned item
Vostram Your/yours acc. sing. feminine owned item
Vostrae of your, of yours sing. feminine owned item
Vostrae to your, to yours sing. feminine owned item
Vostra by your/yours, with your/yours sing. feminine owned item
Vostrum Your/yours. sing. neutral owned item
Vostrum Ô your...! Ô yours! sing. neutral owned item
Vostrum Your/yours acc. sing. neutral owned item
Vostri of your, of yours sing. neutral owned item
Vostro to your, to yours sing. neutral owned item
Vostro by your/yours, with your/yours sing. neutral owned item

For plural owned things:

Vostri Your/yours. Plural masc. owned items
Vostri Ô your...! Ô yours! Plural masc. owned items
Vostros Your/yours acc. Plural masc. owned items
Vostrorum of your, of yours old form Vostrum
Vostris to your, to yours Plural masc. owned items
Vostris by your/yours, with your/yours Plural masc. owned items
Vostrae Your/yours. Plural fem. owned items
Vostrae Ô your...! Ô yours! Plural fem. owned items
Vostras Your/yours acc. Plural fem. owned items
Vostrarum of your, of yours Plural fem. owned items
Vostris to your, to yours Plural fem. owned items
Vostris by your/yours, with your/yours Plural fem. owned items
Vostra Your/yours. Plural neutral owned items
Vostra Ô your...! Ô yours! Plural neutral owned items
Vostra Your/yours acc. Plural neutral owned items
Vostrorum of your, of yours Old form: Vostrum
Vostris to your, to yours Plural neutral owned items
Vostris by your/yours, with your/yours Plural neutral owned items

Vestri and Vostri are easy to confuse:
Vestri = of your (gen. of "vos") and Vostri (gen of "voster", for sing. masc. owned item)

So, possessive Voster, for masc. sing, and Vobis (a possession to you) for everything.


Ille = the former, "that" (an in plural: those), and also "he".

Like saying: I saw Henry, the former was running = he was running.
That (man) was running = he was running.

Declensions of "ille"

ille = he, that (masc)
illum = he, that....................in acc. old form: Ellum
illius = of him, of that
illi = dative, to him, to that
illo = ablative, with him/by him, with that/by that

illa = she, that (feminine)
illam = she, that.....................in acc. old form: Ellam
illius = of her, of that
illi = to her, to that
illa = with her/by her, with that/by that

illud = it, that (neutral)
illud = it, that.........................in acc.
illius = of it, of that
illis = to it, to that
illo = with it/by it, with that/by that

illi = they (masculine or mixed), those (masc.)
illos = them (masc or mixed), those (acc)
illorum = of them, of those
illis = to them, to those
illis = with them/by them, with those/by those

illae = they (feminine), those (fem.)
illas = them (fem.), those (fem. in acc.)
illarum = of them, of those
illis = to them, to those
illis = with them/by them, with those/by those

illa = they (neutral), those (neut.)
illa = them (neut), those (neut. in acc.)
illorum = of them, of those
illis = to them, to those
illis = with them/by them, with those/by those

  • So, we can say "his" with illius and illi ???

Declensions of "hic"

Hic = Here. And this. these (when plural)
And also "he". (see "ille" section)

Hic = this (masc.) /he
Hic = Ô this...
Hunc = this/he....................................................in acc.
Huius/Hujus = of him/of this
Huic = to him/to this
Hoc = with him/by him, with this/by this

Haec = this (fem.) /she
Haec = Ô this...
Hanc = this/she....................................................in acc.
Huius/Hujus = of her/of this
Huic = to her/to this
Haec = with her/by her, with this/by this

Hoc = this (neut.) /he
Hoc = Ô this...
Hunc = this/it....................................................in acc.
Huius/Hujus = of him/of this
Huic = to it/to this
Hoc = with it/by it, with this/by this

Hi = those (masc.) / they (masc. or mixed) Hi = Ô this...
Hos = Those/them..............................................................in acc.
Horum = of them/of those
His = to them/to those........................................................old form: Hibus
His = with them/by them, with those/by those...............old form: Hibus

Hae = those (fem. ) / they (fem. ) Hae = Ô this...
Has = Those/them.................................................................in acc.
Harum = of them/of those
His = to them/to those........................................................old form: Hibus His = with them/by them, with those/by those...............old form: Hibus

Haec = those (neut. ) / they (neut. ) Haec = Ô this...
Hac = Those/them.................................................................in acc.
Horum = of them/of those
His = to them/to those........................................................old form: Hibus His = with them/by them, with those/by those...............old form: Hibus


Once again: please correct all the errors you could find.

I don't know when to use the "to me" form when using a possessive in English, but I met in this course "Nomen mihi" (=>Nomen ei) and "Pater eius" (=> Pater mihi) so far.

November 28, 2019

15 Comments


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Quidam_Homo

Neuter singular ablative of "noster" should be "nostro" not "nostra".

All those "voster, vostra, vostrum" forms should instead be "vester, vestra, vestrum". The former spellings with an "o" are encountered in preclassical writers like Plautus, but by the time of the classical period the "e" spelling is well and truly entrenched.

The feminine plural forms of "ille" should be "illae" and "illas" not "illiae" and "illias".

Neuter plural accusative of "hic" should be "haec" not "hac".


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/PERCE_NEIGE

Thank you, I will review it tomorrow.

I probably inverted some words when I tried to make the table, I need to check everything again, once all the tables will be made.

For the vester/voster, it's taken from here:
http://www.dicolatin.com/FR/LAK/0/voster/index.htm

"The feminine plural forms of "ille" should be "illae" and "illas" not "illiae" and "illias"

Typo fixed!

Many thanks for your kind assistance.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/HarutoRat

cuius - whose

Cuius est hic canis?

Whose dog is this?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/ElioGerard2

No... Here we ha e the possess dative... CUI est hic canis?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/ARCANA-MVSA

This is a great effort, but there is an easier way to lay it out, if you'd prefer.

The way I learned this is in a table as follows (pardon if DL has difficulties with the width of the layout):

Masculine Feminine Neuter
Nominative ille illa illud
Genitive illius illius illius
Dative illi illi illi
Accusative illum illam illud
Ablative illo illa illo

And there would be another one for plurals. (The order of nominative, genitive etc. is not important. This is just my preference; to each their own.)

You can do the same for the possessive forms (meus, a, um, etc.). The table provides enough information to deduce the translation and is much shorter. :)

Volgav vitsenanieff nivya kevach varatsach.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/PERCE_NEIGE

Yes, it's a good presentation. I made this thread for my own use (and because the effort of doing this could also be useful for some other people too), because the pronouns were all on different Internet pages, and not in a same place.

The translation in English next to the Latin words is especially useful for me.
Your table is better to memorize them, and my presentation is useful to me for checking if the meaning of a translation is correct.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/PERCE_NEIGE

Formatting not finished.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/AnnaParodi

I don't know when to use the "to me" form when using a possessive in English

In sentences like: "Give this thing to me"

"Give me a cookie" "Da mihi crustulum." https://forum.duolingo.com/comment/33838869

and all others the similar

Please, give me bread. "Quaeso, da mihi panem." https://forum.duolingo.com/comment/33853275

Livia, give me the wine. "Livia, da mihi vinum." https://forum.duolingo.com/comment/33828151

You might object, but there isn't "to me", just only "me" but in reality there is, because it is like saying: "give the bread to me" and you can omit the "to" but then the pronoun has to be moved besides the verb.

And this is true for all the pronouns, like "give the wine to us" that becomes "give us the wine", "give the bread to her" that becomes "give her the bread".

I hope a native English speaker can confirm, because I have learned this in the English course here on the Duolingo and I really am not able to explain the rule why it is like this, but I am really sure it is. =)


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/ARCANA-MVSA

You've got it right. (Native English speaker.) :)

Technically it's not only limited to pronouns - you can do that with nouns as well ("Give the girl the cookie!" "I'm giving this dog some water" etc.), but it sounds just a tad more awkward than using the "to" and kicking the phrase to the end. It's still a perfectly acceptable alternative, however.

German has a similar feature (i.e. "Ich gebe ihm ein Geschenk", I give him a gift; "Ich gebe dem Hund etwas Wasser", I'm giving the dog some water), which suggests to me that this feature is Germanic in origin, but this I can't confirm. :)

To answer the original question: use of one form or another is more or less interchangeable, though one or the other may be preferred depending on emphasis. For instance, when offering something to a child that the child doesn't want, they might say "Gimme that!" and point to whatever it is that they actually want (gimme = give me, emphasis placed on the that). But when trying to make it clear to someone who they should be giving something to, one might say "No, no, give it to him!" or something similar (emphasis placed on who it's being given to, rather than what is being given).

Of course, even that can be more or less interchangeable depending on who's speaking, but that's the gist of it. :)

But with Latin, the dative also encompasses another English preposition: for (für in German). Ex. I'm making food for you (cibum tibi facio). At least, that's what I learned in Latin class. :)

Hopefully this helps a bit. Best of luck!

Volgav vitsenanieff nivya kevach varatsach.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/AnnaParodi

Thank you, it's great!

This demonstrates that Duolingo really teaches a language ^_^


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/PERCE_NEIGE

Yes, but "Mihi nomen est..." ?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/ARCANA-MVSA

"The name for me is." :)

Volgav vitsenanieff nivya kevach varatsach.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/AnnaParodi

It can also be interpreted as if it were implicitly meaning:

"the name (they gave) to me is" where "they" are the parents

But I really don't know and I am just make a wild guessing.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/CannedMan

With reference to my post below: This is an example of datīvus poessessīvus. Sjöstrand notes that the dat. poss. is often used with esse, and that we regularly translate it freely, making the dative subject. His examples are (macrons included by me):

  • Nullus locus est misericordiae: There is no place for compassion.
  • Nunc est mihī tempus: Now I have time.
  • Rōmānīs bellum cum Poenīs erat: The Romans waged (were in) war with the Phoenicians.

He notes that in dat. poss. with esse, the owned is stressed, whilst in gen. poss., the owner is:

  • Domus patrī est: My father has a house
  • Patris haec domus est: This house belongs to [my] father

He further notes that in the expression mihī nomen est the personal name is either in nominative or dative, according to the possessive dativ (so-called attraction):

  • Mihi nomen est Mārcus (Mārcō): I have the name Marcus.

The same rule applies to expressions like alicuī nōmen (cognōmen) dare (indere, dīcere, tribuere), that is: It may be a dative rather than an accusative.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/CannedMan

Dative is used with verbs, some adjectives and sometimes even nouns. The following are from Nils Sjöstrand:

  • Dative object: e.g. pater fīliō librum dedit, ‘father gave a book to the son’; hunc mihī timōrem ēripe, ‘save me from this fear’. Many intransitive verbs. Some impersonal verbs. Transitive and intransitive verbs concatenated with the prepositions ad, ante, con¹, in, inter, ob, post, prae, re², sub, super. ¹ Strictly speaking a prefix. ² Should be considered a particle.
  • Datīvus commodī et incommodī: Homō nōn sibī sed patriae vīvit, ‘Man lives not for himself, but for (contributing to) his country’.
  • Datīvus possessīvus: The owner or whoever is affected by the action of the verb or matter, as in ‘The wind blew me in the face’. Sēsē omnēs Caesarī ad pedēs prōiēcērunt, ‘They all threw themselves before Caesar’s feet’. Compare with German ‘Er warf sich dem König zu Füssen’.
  • Datīvus relātiōnis: The person whose perspective is described. Mihī purgātus est, ‘To me you are clean’.
  • Datīvus ethicus: Has a personal pronoun and stresses the sentence; often requires an adverb in our languages. Mihī illam laudās?, ‘Are you really praising her?’
  • Datīvus agentis: The acting person in passive constructions, e.g. Epistula mihī scrībenda est, ‘The letter must be written by me’.
  • Datīvus fīnālis: Usually has an abstract noun, denoting the end or result of an action. Alicui auxiliō esse, ‘To be of help to someone’. Further in idioms with dare, accipere, habēre, dicere, venīre, mittere, and so on, as well as tribuere.
  • With adjectives: Often matches Germanic languages well, such as Homō mihī cārus est, ‘The man is dear to me’. Somnus est mortī similis, ‘Sleep is like death.’ Note that in the latter example, similis is predicate to somnus, whilst mortī is the dative.
  • With nouns. 1) To verbal nouns made from verbs that take the dative. 2) To other nouns to express person or matter when the noun takes a dat. comm., or more often to express the goal or end (dat. fin.). Example 1: obtemperātiō scrīptīs lēgibus, ‘obedience to a written law’. Example 2: tribūnīcia potestās, mūnīmentum lībertātī, ‘the tribunal power, an entrenchment for freedom’.
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