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"I have a bonnet and underpants on."

Translation:Tha bonaid agus drathais orm.

November 29, 2019

32 Comments


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Eilidh19845

I need to think of the old Scots "DRAWERS" (underpants) to remember this one


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Morag_Kerr

Good one! Mind you I have no idea why I might need to know the Gaelic for underpants. Unless it's the same word for women's panties.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Samantha782608

it would be (or at least I imagine its the umbrella term, rather than referencing individual types of briefs)


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Ivitcyex

Good tip, thanks. Didn't know drawers came from Scots.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/DaibhidhR

They don't. It is an English word also used in Scots. The word has no entry in DSL although it does appear in SND example 17.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Eilidh19845

For women they are called knickers.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Eilidh19845

I asked a native speaker, and bonaid can be used for either male or female headwear


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/PatriciaJH

Yes, in Scots bonnet is for either gender too. All the old songs and poems and stories seem to have bonnets and plaidies in them; how you survived the weather.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Ealasaid.

I would love to put a 'mi' in... "tha mi bonaid agus drathais orm". Please can someone tell me why that would be wrong? Tapadh leibh :)


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Eilidh19845

orm already means ON ME, so it would be redundant.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Slobkra

I believe that would be incorrect because you would be saying “I am a bonnet and underpants on me”. That doesn’t make much sense.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/DaibhidhR

I suppose if you were really desperate to put an extra pronoun in you could learn Welsh and put an extra (f)i (equivalent of mi) at the end.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Deio251646

What you can do is make it clear that you are wearing your own bonaid, something like: Tha mo bhonaid orm; also possible are similar constructions with fein (acute on e) and cuid: tha mo chuid bhonaid orm....But that is not what the translation requires, but could be useful for those who wear the wrong hat!


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/DaibhidhR

Yes that first bit is exactly right. If you were trying to emphasise that it was your hat you are wearing you would almost certainly add a se to the end as well.

The fhè(i)n is also a good idea, for emphasising YOU are wearing your hat, as opposed to you are wearing YOUR hat. Note my grave accent. The acute accent is modern Irish or obsolete Gaelic (still shown, incorrectly, in Am Faclair Beag).

The cuid construction is very common in Irish (but I do not have the knowledge to say how to use it). However I have never heard it in Gaelic with a countable noun such as bonaid. Have you? I would only use with an uncountable noun (one that does not have a plural) such as Gàidhlig or aodaich 'clothing' (note the genitive).


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Deio251646

Tha sin ceart agad. When I first learnt Gaelic, both accents were used. I always get them the wrong way round when thinking of them in English, for Irish, I just say, fada, short for: an sìneadh fada (since I am in the Gàidhlig box, I am being acute). Cuid is not as commonly used as in Irish, but is still to be found and heard. But memory is fickle and it has been too many years since I was last in the Uists. I would not like to say exactly what is current these days ... I need to go back! All the best, work calls.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Slobkra

What is meant by ‘bonaid’? Does it mean the same as the American use of the word ‘bonnet’, an old fashioned hat primarily worn by women? Or does it have a different meaning in Scottish or British English?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Eilidh19845

Men in Scotland still wear "bunnets"( flat caps with a skip, usually wool or tweed).


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/PatriciaJH

The round plaid caps with a button on top that you see pipers and Scottish dancers wearing are the traditional Scots bonnet, also known as a tam o'shanter -- and they're worn by men and women both. In Scotland, apparently bonnet still means any hat -- and the Scots word for it is bunnet.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/DaibhidhR

It's easy to think that a word covers a certain range of meanings, without actually thinking about whether it covers all possible examples. In this case, would all hats be described as bonnets? I will come back to that.

I was interested in what the history of the word was, to see if it referred to men's or women's headgear, or both.

Ultimately it is related to the word bound and is thought to mean 'material bound together to make a hat' – but of course that does not really help us much. It comes to us through Middle French, so I looked it up in CNRTL which redirected me to the modern word. The first thing it said was

Coiffure d'homme ou de femme en matière souple et sans bord ni visière
Men's or women's headgear in flexible material and without edge or visor

It then gives various examples, such as the calot (forage cap) worn by French police, the Phrygian cap, fur cap, etc. all meeting these criteria.

Or in other words, just the sort of hat that a Tam o' Shanter is. Thinking about it, I would be much more likely to call a Tammy a bonnet than I would a top hat or a peaked cap, so I think that is basically what it is. And of course it clarifies that it is not gendered.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Sandra908885

Looking for an explanation of the difference between orm and ort


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/AlbaShaor60

Orm means I have on/I am wearing and ort means you have on/you are wearing.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Morag_Kerr

If you look at the hints and tips for "Clothes", the sixth skill on the tree, you will find the explanation.

Basically, "orm" is a contraction of "air mi" and means "on me", while "ort" is a contraction of "air thu" and means "on you". So "Tha bonaid orm" literally means "A bonnet is on me" while "Tha bonaid ort" means "A bonnet is on you." So, "I have a bonnet on" as opposed to "You have a bonnet on."

But read the hints and tips, they explain it better.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Sandra908885

Thanks. I had never seen the Tips. I usually use the Tablet app and it doesn't offer Tips. Today I'm on the desktop computer and I've found the tips for the first time. So I'll go back and read all the ones I've missed. I was also puzzled by leat/leam but now I know....


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Morag_Kerr

The tips are great and to my mind an essential part of the course. I didn't see them myself when I started and felt like an idiot when I realised, somewhere around the first castle. Since then their existence has been made a bit more obvious, at least on the web version, but people still miss them.

If you go to https://duome.eu/Sandra908885/progress when you're logged into Gaelic on Duolingo, and then click on the "Tips and Notes" tab which is some way under your avatar picture, you will get all the notes combined in a single page for easy reference.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/ScottishScones

Tips are awesome. That being said, their use and prevalency has varied throughout duolingo. In particular, the mobile and desktops forms often differed over whether or not they had tips. I'm not sure if that is still the case, as there's been a few updates since then.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/DaibhidhR

As far as I know, tips are always available if you use the website, whether on a computer or a mobile.

As far as I know, it is still the case that tips are available on the app in a small selection of languages that does not include Gaelic. This is a bug in Duolingo. But since they obviously can provide the tips, it is a complete mystery as to why they don't in most languages.

A more direct link than the one Morag_Kerr gives is https://duome.eu/tips/en/gd which takes you direct to the tips on Gaelic. Once there you can click on the contents to get a menu of sections. A bug means this does not work on all browsers on phones, so if it does not work for you, try Chrome instead. Alternatively you can search for a word of interest in the whole text.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Deio251646

Well, there is a clothes combination I would hope never to see! Cha creid!


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/DaibhidhR

You don't have to see me wearing that combination. Each time you see me wearing a bonnet (a unisex term in Scottish usage) I would just like you to assume I am wearing underpants, without requiring evidence.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Deio251646

Tha mi a ’dèanamh mo dhìcheall, a charaid. Is toigh leam e gu dearbh!


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/robertdon27

Why is it not tha mì bonaid agus drathais orm , I have seen tha mì being used for i have so why not hear


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/DaibhidhR

The thing to do with the Celtic languages is to get out of the mindset of thinking that the words match the ones in English. The structure is completely different. It is unfortunate that the Duolingo system is not good for showing what the actual words are doing, but here is a calque (word-for-word translation). You will see there is no 'I' and that there is a 'me' hidden inside the orm.

Tha bonaid agus drathais orm.
(There) are bonnet and underpants on‧me.

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/MariaKaren415308

I certainly hope you have underpants on!

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