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  5. "Fàilte, halò agus tìoraidh."

"Fàilte, halò agus tìoraidh."

Translation:Welcome, hello and bye.

November 29, 2019

12 Comments


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/RobertEddy

Well, that visit didn't drag on indefinitely.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/JanBending

'welcome the visitor and speed the parting guest'


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/caterina

Choices 1 and 4 are identical, but choice 1 is considered wrong.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/FearDorcha5

1 = tioraidh. 4= tiomnadh. Numbers 1 & 3 are similar but not identical.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/VanMelsing

There are two identical options (letter-by-letter the same) and two similar other options. Of the two correctly-spelled options, one is considered incorrect. (Yes, I triple-checked that they are actually the same.)


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/FearDorcha5

Maybe it had changed, but when I saw it there was a "tíoraidh" and a "tioraidh", i.e. one with a fada and one without. [I neither know the proper term, nor able to make the proper character].


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/DaibhidhR

Since we dropped the acute accent in 1988, all accents have been grave. They are usually just called an accent when speaking English (as we only have one) or stràc in Gaelic. It does exactly the same as the fada in Irish or to bach in Welsh, so Irish á, Gaelic à and Welsh â are all just ways of writing a long a.

Fada is the same in Gaelic and means 'long'
Stràc is the Gaelic form of strike or stroke
To bach is cognate with tugha bheag where the nouns also correspond to English thatch, and it means 'little roof'. D


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Ariaflame

tìoraidh? These days all the accents are from top left to bottom right. (Older stuff has more mixed but todays orthography is fairly consistent). But I think there isn't the accent making it longer (fada) here.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/SuryaKiriti1

Is tìoraidh also used as cheers?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/DaibhidhR

That's quite a complicated and interesting question. You may be thinking that cheers has one meaning, but in some dialects it has three. Wiktionary says

  1. A common toast used when drinking in company
  2. (Britain, South Africa, informal) goodbye
  3. (Britain, Australia, New Zealand, Canada, Ireland, informal) thank you

No one seems to know where any of these come from but I think it is generally assumed they are related. Now the second (also found as cheerio) is pretty convincingly related to the Gaelic tìoraidh. Wiktionary says the Gaelic comes from the English. But I think that is just bias. I don't think there is any actual evidence as to which comes from which. And how this is connected to meanings (1) and (3) is still a mystery.

So it would be great to know what is going on. But to actually answer your question, the answer is no for (1) and (3) but yes for (2) - as far a I know, but it is the sort of thing where usage could vary a lot. D


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/bzg59

A wonderful book recommendation, from a local author,(Berkshires, western Mass, USA), The Professor and the Madman. About the making of the OED. Main editor was a Scot, but i wonder whether he spoke Gàidhlig. It was considered a "common/low class" language, apparently. So, no surprise Gàidhlig gets no credit for as source for English words


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/DaibhidhR

James Murray (Wikipedia) is not known to have had much familiarity with Gaelic. By his own estimation (see the Wikipedia link) he "he knew 'a little of the Celtic'", put this 14th on the list of languages he had various levels of familiarity with. He was also born in Hawick (pronounced 'hoik') about as far from the Gaelic speaking region as you could get at that time. However, there are, if I recall correctly, one or two entries in the OED that suggest that he was more disposed to Gaelic than most of his contemporaries.

It is important to note that there are two, not one, important assumptions hidden in what you say about attitudes at the time. One is that Gaelic was a common language. The other is that this would somehow prevent words being borrowed from it. The first may be true, if you accept that 'common' means 'inferior in the eyes of the observer' - i.e. it is entirely subjective, but the second is simply a prejudiced presumption. For attitudes at the time I will requote what I have quoted before because I think it is so fundamental to understanding the way people thought at the time. An eminent linguist, Otto Jespersen, summed up the sentiment quite well in 1905 when he said

We now see why so few Celtic words were taken over into English. There was nothing to induce the ruling classes to learn the language of the inferior natives; it could never be fashionable for them to show an acquaintance with that despised tongue by using now and then a Celtic word. On the other hand the Celt would have to learn the language of his masters, and learn it well; he could not think of addressing his superiors in his own unintelligible gibberish, and if the first generation did not learn good English, the second or third would, while the influence they themselves exercised on English would be infinitesimal.

Murray may well have been more than usually open-minded, but he faced a second problem – lack of resources. The first decent Gaelic dictionary was Dwelly's, published 6 years after Jespersen's quote, and near the end of Murray's life and career. But how would he have looked up the word cheers in Dwelly, or one of the previous dictionaries that were virtually all Gaelic–English only. He would not have found anything in the ch section as Gaelic spelling is so different from English. My guess is that he had essentially zero resources in London that would have been of any use at all, including dictionaries, grammars, universities with Gaelic departments and friends that spoke Gaelic. D

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