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  5. "I do not like soup at all."

"I do not like soup at all."

Translation:Cha toil leam brot idir.

December 9, 2019

16 Comments


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/AlanS181824

Anyone know the etymology of idir? In Irish it means between so I'm curious to know how two languages so similiar can have such a difference in meaning of a word! Tapadh leibh/grma!


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Ivitcyex

https://en.m.wiktionary.org/wiki/idir Looks like they aren't related. SG idir is from Old Irish etir, meaning at all. Modern Irish idir is a cognate with SG eadar, from OI eter, meaning between.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/OrkneyBadger

Would anyone mind helping me understand when it's leam and when it's leum? The app lets me get away with it, but I'm not really understanding the distinction. Tapadh leibh!


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/silmeth

leam means ‘with me’ (a form of the preposition le), leum is ‘leap, jump, jumping’ (a verb and a verbal noun).

The construction is toil leam X meaning ‘I like X’ means literally ‘X is pleasure/delight/desire with me’.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/ChelseyMaeD.

Is there another way to say/pronounce "Cha"? The audio just did a "keesh" sound when i selected "cha". Is it pronouced differently in different parts of scotland or is that a Duo error?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/PatriciaJH

The ch is like the ch in "loch", as in Loch Lomond. From an American English speaker's point of view, it's placed fairly deep in the throat; we don't place anything there except throat-clearing. (In another discussion the Scotts thought it was a pretty normal place to put a sound, and not deep in the throat at all, but...)

I've no idea what you heard, as they've changed the recordings around a lot and fixed some of the problems. I do know there's a lot of Scottish Gaelic pronunciation variation from place to place though.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/silmeth

ch (…) it's placed fairly deep in the throat; we don't place anything there except throat-clearing.

That’s not true. It has the exact same place of articulation as (English) /k/ and /ɡ/, ie. it is a velar consonant (the tongue gets close to the velum AKA soft palate). The only difference between /k/ and /x/ (the ch sound) is that /k/ is a stop and /x/ is a fricative. That means that when you say /k/ you entirely block the air flow with your tongue (you stop the air flowing) while for /x/ you put your tongue in the same place but instead of blocking the air flow you just obstruct it a little to create friction.

It’s a similar difference as between English /t/ (a stop) and /s/ (a fricative).

It’s definitely not deep in the throat (it’s possible to make consonants further back there, eg. German ch might be [x] like in Gaelic but also it might be uvular [χ], or French /r/ is voiced uvular [ʁ] – the tongue indeed closing to uvula a bit further down, or Arabic has eg. /ʕ/ – a pharyngeal fricative that indeed is made in pharynx, in the throat… – but none of that in Gaelic, its /x/ has the same exact place of articulation as /k/).

As for the original comment – I remember there being some more comments about weird sound for cha, so I guess there was something wrong with the recordings (or maybe some bug with playback distorting beginning of the recordings?) at some point, but since I don’t see newer reports like that, I guess it’s been fixed?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/PatriciaJH

Yes, well, there are no fricatves placed in the throat like that in American English, and IMO while as you say the shape of the sound is placed where the k is, the action and vibration of the airflow is distinctly deeper in the throat than the action for the k. It's not something we know how to coordinate. There is a similar sound in the same position in Hebrew, though less aspirated, and my (largely expert) church choir sat around teaching it to each other -- all describing that as "deep in the throat" -- and with the additional aspiration and extra coordination needed for the Gàidhlig "ch," it feels even deeper. This is a sound I presume you have in your linguistic repertoire; it's not one we have.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/silmeth

the action and vibration of the airflow is distinctly deeper in the throat than the action for the k.

But it’s not. It’s really the same place as /k/. The only difference being the manner of articulation. You’re right there is no such phoneme in English and it might not be easy or natural for native English speakers to produce this sound but it’s in no way ‘deeper in the throat’ than /k/ is.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Fiona_Emm

I'm sure the 1st item is most often the right answer. Can developers make it more random?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/AlisonPalm18

What does sin mean


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/ElizabethD912769

I think SIN - say shin - means THAT. If I have misinformed you - big apologies! I meant well.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/JudeNicol

How do you know when to use "Cha toil leam" or "Ha toil leam"?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/silmeth

Simple – never use Ha toil leam as that’s not valid Gaelic…

Where did you get this ha toil from?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/ElizabethD912769

I have trouble distinguishing between THA and CHA with some of the speakers. Quite often they both sound like HA in "Cha toil leam......" and "Tha toil leam....." and other phrases too. Probably my ears are faulty!


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/YukWah

Same here - I can't differentiate the pronunciation of "tha" with "cha" either; I'm not even certain there is a difference. I've had to report some of my answers as invalid after checking that I had used the wrong form but they were accepted.

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