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  5. "Chan eil mi ann an Uibhist f…

"Chan eil mi ann an Uibhist fhathast."

Translation:I am not in Uist yet.

January 5, 2020

27 Comments


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Segwyne

Fhathast is said to mean either still or yet, but I am confused because those don't really mean the same thing. Still and anymore both mean that something has already begun and either is (still) or is not (anymore) continuing, whereas yet means it has not begun.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/CIMacAonghais

Fhathast can mean still or yet. :) Chan eil mi ann an Uibhist fhathast. - I am (still not in Uist/ not yet in Uist) (maybe the ferry is late) Tha mi ann an Uibhist fhathast. - I am still in Uist.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Segwyne

Okay, thank you. I can see it in the negative sense now. I agree that still not is equivalent to not yet. Got it!


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/CIMacAonghais

Glad that helped! :)


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/PurpleJulie26

I think there is a difference between "I am still not in Uist" and "I am not still in Uist". The first one being similar to 'not yet', the second one meaning something like "I was in Uist, but I'm not still there now" which is quite different to 'not yet'. I typed the second sentence and was marked correct for it but, I think with the word order in that second sentence, it doesn't mean 'still in the sense of not yet' and so should be market wrong. Didn't think to report it though.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/DaibhidhR

There is no option in the word order in Gaelic, becasue the not and the still are nowhere near each other, so I think the sentence is ambiguous. It can mean both so I hope they accept both.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/CIMacAonghais

Hi, I’ll look at it properly when I get home but Uist is actually several island. You would say I’m in Uist just as you would say in Hawaii.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/StevenClar923640

So, i answered this correctly, but i was wondering, how would i say: I am not still in Uist? With the meaning, "i used to be in Uist, but I'm not there any more"?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/joannejoanne12

Chan eil mi ann an Uibhist a-nis? Maybe? That would be 'I'm not in Uist now'.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/StevenClar923640

Thanks for having a think about it. I know that there are ways we express things in one language that don't have an exact translation so we either find another way to say the same thing or sometimes, if the alternative is too convoluted, it becomes something you don't say - at least not in the same way.

Thanks again.

Steven


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Agatha631151

I think that is one of the most significant aspects of the English language. It is really huge. We can say the same thing in a bunch of ways with each one meaning something subtly different.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/DrDuthie

I realise that the way to say, in Gaelic, that you're on one of the islands is to say the equivalent of "in" - e.g. "ann an Uibhist" - but I would have exlected this to be translates to "on" in English - i.e. "on Uist", not "in Uist". However, this is not accepted as an answer.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/DaibhidhR

I'll let others answer for what is or should be accepted, but I'll point out that Uist is not an island - it is a collection of islands, but only part of the island chain called the Outer Hebrides. As such I would not expect to say 'on'. D


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/DrDuthie

Yep, I'm well aware there is a Uibhist a Deas and a Uibhist a Tuadh and I can see from some searches on the web the language used varies: https://www.cicerone.co.uk/walking-on-uist-and-barra Also, that the Uists are referred to as "Uist" or "the Uists".

I'm happy to go with "in", but it'll probably take an islander to say what is used and what is never used.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/joannejoanne12

We'll accept both on and in when talking about islands, but as DaibhidhR said above, Uist is not an island and so we only accept in Uist :)


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/uU8l10

Cuidich mi - "Chan eil mi ann an Uibhist fhathast" - i translated it as "I'm not still in Uist" (meaning I'm not there anymore) it said another correct answer is " I am not in Uist yet" (meaning I've not arrived there yet)- now from my point of view as a Scot, these two things have different meanings. So which one is correct? Puzzled now.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/DrDuthie

You could also translate it as "I'm not in Uist still", which again has the second meaning (I've not arrived there yet). I think this is the correct one...


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/FionnaidhP

I am finding some of the lessons are telling me I've written in English, when I've actually written in Gaidhlig. Then it says it'll be back in an hour. I've dropped 43 places since this has happened.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/CIMacAonghais

Hey, this is usually because there is enough of a typo in your answer to stop it being accepted (although I can't say for sure)! The system isn't clever enough to know that an answer in Gaelic that it wouldn't accept is still in Gaelic. If this is not the case and there are no typos then the troubleshooting forum on here may be a good port of call, as technical things are beyond the powers of the Gaelic volunteers. :)


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/morag771767

I am typing in gaelic but am being told it is english. This is happening too frequently


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/CIMacAonghais

This is almost always because there is an unseen spelling error. If the answer wouldn’t be accepted the system thinks it is in English. If not it is a bug, may be raise in the troubleshooting forums if you are 100% certain no mistake has been made.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/I2cGAc67

Noticing that the speaker of the whole sentence pronounces fhathast as English chast, and the speaker for the word tile pronounces it as English yast. Interesting.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/DaibhidhR

There seem to be a couple of practical problems here.

Firstly, when I clicked on fhathast to take me to the dictionary from where you can listen to the sentences, this one was not present, and the single word was different from what you describe. I suspect they have inadvertently put two separate entries in for this word, so there is no way to replay what you heard.

Secondly, fh is normally silent but there are four exceptions - fhathast, fhèin, fhìn and fhuair. I looked in my trusty linguistic atlas that shows how each Gaelic phoneme was pronounced in 207 different places in the 1950s. Unfortunately none of these four words was listed, in what can only be described as a disastrous oversight.

Because of these issues, and because my limited knowledge of Gaelic accents certainly does not extend to words with irregular pronunciations, I cannot answer your observations directly. All I can do is say that virtually everyone pronounces the fh in these four words as an /h/, the only pronunciation I have ever seen in a dictionary: so that is what I would do,

pronounce the fh in these words as /h/, regardless of what you hear in a particular recording of a particular accent.

It is worth noting that there is no obvious reason for the first three of these to be lenited anyway, or for the last to be in the form it is.

  • Fhathast comes from words that contain no h with no obvious reason for the h to be inserted.
  • Fhèin (of which fhìn is a variant) is given in Mark (2003) as "fèin pers pron (usually lenited nowadays)" with no explanation for the lenition offered. There is no h in Irish - Sinn Féin.
  • Fhuair would be * dh'fhuair if the h were silent - so presumably the dh' is missing precisely because the h is not silent.

My guess would be that this is not really lenition. The f changed to /h/ for an unknown reason, and for some reason they decided to write this as fh. D


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/I2cGAc67

Thanks for sharing the research! This speaker (who sounds like a somewhat older lady with a dialect different from all the other speakers) definitely did pronounce this fh like English ch, as in "chest." Her pronunciation of fhathast was very much like English "chaste." I replayed it several times with same results. Interesting!


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/DaibhidhR

I've just had a look at the sentence, as opposed to the word. The slender t is normally a /t͡ʃ/ (like the ch in chest) in standard Gaelic, where the IPA reminds us it is an 'affricate', actually two sounds, one after the other. If you then put this after the s /ʃ/ in Uibhist and you get quite a mouthful, /ʃt͡ʃ/. I think many younger speakers give up and just pronounce the t as in English, but with practice (as an older speaker would have) I am sure you can pronounce it properly. It is notable that they have actually have a letter for this sound in Cyrillic (Щ), still pronounced this way in Ukrainian. The fact that they have given up on this pronunciation in Russian gives a clue that it is not easy to pronounce. Learners are told to pronounce it like the shch in fresh cheese. That is, you cannot easily avoid attaching the ch to the next syllable, and I think that is exactly what has happened here, with the /h/ simply getting squashed between the ch and the athast. So the lady is not pronouncing fh as ch but rather she is pronouncing the t_fh as ch. Does that fit what you hear? D


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/I2cGAc67

Yes, I suppose it does, thanks. (I'm familiar with-- though certainly not fluent in-- Russian, and so readily know what you mean about the Cyrillic alphabet).

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