1. Forum
  2. >
  3. Topic: Klingon
  4. >
  5. "vengvamDaq tungyen luyugh Ho…

"vengvamDaq tungyen luyugh Hoch qachmey."

Translation:All of the buildings are made of concrete in this city.

January 10, 2020

9 Comments


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Qov-jIH-je

A My answer should be accepted report on this sentence raises an interesting grammar point. The learner wrote vengvamDaq tungyen luyugh Hoch qach. In most cases the plural suffix is completely optional in Klingon, allowing the noun to be understood as singular or plural, depending on context, and the context of luyugh here clearly marks the subject as plural. So why didn't I accept Hoch qach?

The answer is that Hoch has a different meaning when used with a singular or plural noun ending, and furthermore is grammatically different. Consider these two canon sentences, both from The Klingon Way.

Hoch 'ebmey tIjon - Capture all opportunities. The plural tI- prefix is used, so Hoch 'ebmey is grammatically plural. Hoch before a plural noun mean "all".

DujDaj HubtaHvIS Hegh 'e' tul Hoch tlhIngan - To die defending his/her ship is the hope of every Klingon. The verb is tul not lutul so we know Hoch tlhIngan means each Klingon, every Klingon.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/mIQey

This construction is weird to me. And seems to break my understaning of something. The -Daq applies to the verb, so it would jave to mean all of the buildings made of concrete were made in this city?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/jdmcowan

This Klingon sentence does not say anything about where the buildings were made, only what they are made of.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/DavidTrimb3

yugh means consist of, be made of. A more literal way to translate this would be In the city, all the buildings consist of concrete.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/mIQey

TLD states, -Daq "indicates something is happening (or has happened...) in the vicinity of the noun to which it is attached."

To me, this seems like vengvamDaq applies to the verb. And in this case, the verb is consist. So, it seems to me like the sentence is describing where they were consisted, which doesn't make sense to me.

For example. My (admittedly limited) understanding is that vengvamDaq qagh vISop means that we know nothing about where the gagh was from, but that the eating must take place (or have taken place...) in the city. Is that correct?"

And if I'm correct about where the eating takes place, how does that jive with the verb consist above?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/jdmcowan

Theoretically this sentence could imply that if the buildings moved they might consist of something else there. That's clearly absurd as the buildings are unlikely to move and unlikely to change their constitution. So it makes much more sense to just read this as a comment on which buildings we are talking about.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/DavidTrimb3

I see where you're coming from. You could avoid this by saying tungyen luyugh Hoch vengvam qachmey.

However, I'm not sure the original is wrong. You seem to be imagining yugh to mean some kind of "they put it together" verb. All the verb means is these buildings are made of concrete, and this being-made-of is the case in the city.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/mIQey

Yeah, I originally put my English bias from made, but I like consist better.

So, if -Daq indicates where something is happening, and in this sentence it's happening vengvam. What is happening in this city?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/DavidTrimb3

Consisting of concrete is happening in the city.

In Klingon, unlike in English, states of being are also actions.

vengvamDaq jIQuch I am happy in this city.
vengvamDaq law' qachmey The buildings are many in this city, there are many buildings in this city
vengvamDaq tungyen yugh qachmey The buildings consist of concrete in this city.

Learn Klingon in just 5 minutes a day. For free.