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https://www.duolingo.com/profile/LeaBourg63

HELP to translate something

Hello, I would like help to translate a sentence into Hawaiian. I am currently writing a fantasy book and I need to translate a spell into Hawaiian which is supposed to turn the air into water.

In English it's : Water of my blood, water of my flesh. Hear your child's prayer. Forget your soul and become a wave where the air was blowing.

In Hawaiian I translated this: Wai kaʻu koko, wai kaʻu io E lohe pule kou keiki e poina kou uhane, a lilo i ka nalu kahi e lele ai ka lewa.

I am a complete beginner in Hawaiian and I must admit I have a lot of difficulty learning this language ! I used Google and dictionaries like http://wehewehe.org/ but I'm not sure about it ...

So thank you in advance !

PS: I know it's a strange request so if it's not appropriate, I'm sorry and you can totally delete my post ... But I tried everything and you are my last hope >

January 19, 2020

11 Comments


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/KekoaMonkey

Aloha mai. I think my only comment here is that I would suggest you research Hawaiian pule and 'oli so that you write this from the Hawaiian perspective, which this is clearly not. This is English written with Hawaiian words. I mean I guess it's okay as long as you know this and are okay with the fact that you are degrading the authenticity of what you are trying to communicate through the spell.

Hope this helps; Bottom line: You don't just want to be doing whatever you want for the sake of your story, lest you err in the realm of appropriation.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/LeaBourg63

In fact, I did a lot of research on Hawaiian mythology and on traditional pule.

The problem is that most of the traditional pule kahoahoa (prayers for appeal) begin with an acknowledgment of the god and its kinolau ... And for my plot, I can't use the call to a deity (to make short, the spell has been stolen from Poliʻahu, the goddess of snow, and therefore it would be counterproductive to appeal to her or to another deity =)) I also cannot use the offering part for the same reasons.

I studied a lot of different pule and I used it to create this spell but I am aware that it will not be a traditional pule ... Which is not the goal ! (I don't want to create a pule but a spell who is supposed to be a forbidden spell that no one knows about except for Hawaiian deities ...)

But thank you for your advice =) It made me think a lot !


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/KekoaMonkey

Aloha nō e @LeaBourg63, Ahhhhh yes yes, I wish you explained a bit more in your original post, because I certainly understand more your POV for wanting this in this form.

hmmm..... OHHHH hmm okay I will help you then. I am not trying to rewrite what you wrote... but consider the below: - wai (freshwater) or kai (saltwater) which to use? - Wai kaʻu koko, etc --> this sounds like "my blood (that I acquired and wasnʻt born with) is freshwater".... "my flesh/meat (that I acquired and wasnʻt both with) is freshwater". Did you mean to use kaʻu and not koʻu??? - "E lohe pule kou keiki..." This should be "kāu keiki" not "kou keiki" btw. In my head I am getting "Your child should hear prayers" or "Your child should prayer hear..." I think you want to say "E hoʻolohe i kāu keiki mau pule" or "E hoʻolohe i nā pule o kāu keiki". - I would actually take out "lohe/hoʻolohe" and change that to "E mailu mai." This is used more traditionally in prayers when someone is requesting the Akua/ʻAumakua to listen to their wishes. - Also ʻuhane is more like "spirit" is this what you mean? Like a ghost of someone would also be considered their ʻuhane. Have you looked up wailua? This is more akin to oneʻs "soul." Also, see puʻuwai for heart. - Lewa is an specific part of the air/sky stratum. If you are talking about the essence that makes up air; that which gives life to living things.... Maybe look into EA. You could also use HANU - breath (in a more poetic sense).

Hope this helps! if you have other questions, reply here and I will see it ^_^v. You really should add something in the begging though where they invoke the deity. Think of this... even if a deity is speaking the spell, wouldnʻt they invoke something higher than themself? Or invoke the more pure form of what is around them.. such as EA, WAI, etc... Aloha!


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/AdultRefre

Thanks for being cool. I hope to understand more of that someday. (Right now I struggle with: He wahine pakole kona . . . .)


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/LeaBourg63

Thank you very much @KekoaMonkey for your answer, it helped me a lot !!

I took into account what you told me and this is what it looks like: E wai i ke kai nupanupa I added a call to water as if it were a deity which gives "O water of lush seas"

kai kaʻu wai, kai kaʻu kino I don't see the difference between kaʻu and koʻu ... Could you explain it to me ?? And also when you say "my blood (that I acquired and wasnʻt born with) is freshwater" .... "my flesh / meat (that I acquired and wasnʻt born with)" how can I say my blood or my flesh but who belongs to me ?? Can I use wai for my blood (I saw it could be used as body fluid ...) and kino for flesh / body?

E mailu mai i nā pule o kāu keiki,

E poina kou naʻau, a lilo i ka nalu kahi e lele ai ka ea. Ea sounded better indeed but for uhane I wonder ... I looked puʻuwai but the concept of heart like the center of the emotions / soul is an European concept ... So I thought I'd rather use naʻau which are the intestines but which are perhaps more logical here ... ? Aloha !


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/KekoaMonkey

Aloha mai e @LeaBourg63,

Okay a few things I want to help you with

  • "O water of lush seas"... If you are addressing the water (the substance) you would say "E ka wai..." You have to put "ka" in there. If you are saying that itʻs name is Water and you are addressing it, then "E Wai" is fine. Also, if it is ocean water, it must be Ke Kai instead of Ka Wai.

  • also, "E ē..." is more formal than just "E ..." just FYI, up to you.

  • Not sure if nupanupa can be used that way. We would usually say "I ke kai uli" or "I ke kai moana uli" or "I ka moana uli." The word "kai" for sea/ocean is only the part of the ocean that meets the beach/shore. "Ke kai Moana" is the great expanse. The deep darkness of the word "uli" Implies the depth and abundance of the ocean from which all things come. "Uli" also refers to the color -> the dark blue/green of the deep ocean and of the deep forests. Another meaning of Uli is the god of sorcery (in pule anaana).

  • Kaʻu vs. Koʻu. A-possessive vs O-possessive.

Starting with O-pos., these are things that you are born with (inalienable possessions), which include your name, thoughts and feelings, parents, grandparents, body and everything in the body, etc. They also include things you can get inside or on top of. Like a house, car, boat, canoe, plane, clothing.

A-pos. are those which you acquire through life or through decisions you can control. Examples are children and grandchildren etc, gifts, things you buy, students, teachers.

  • If you want to say "My blood that/which belongs to me" I would say "ke koko oʻu" (the blood of mine).

  • Yes you can use wai for bodily fluid, but these are usually excretions to my knowledge... I think we would consider koko to have kai in it tho, not wai.... not sure, but this is my instinct lol. The reason why is we consider our blood composition to be the same as the ocean, which is made up of kai.

  • Kino can be used to reference your entire body in general. If you are talking about your flesh as in the meat of your body... then iʻo is better.

  • the word "ea" is irregular and uses "ke" before it rather than "ka" --> "ke ea" is correct.

  • ʻAe, naʻau is definitely more from Hawaiian perspective, but not sure if "wai" would have "naʻau" or if akua do in their elemental forms. When in human forms, yes, but I am not sure here. Have you looked into " ʻano "?

Mālama Pono <sub>~</sub>


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/LeaBourg63

Aloha ahiahi !

Thank you very much for all your explanations (And I thought Irish was hard to learn ... ><)

So if I understand everything, the spell will look like that :

E ē Kai i ke kai moana uli, (I chose Kai as if Water is its name ... I love the reference with Uli thanks !!)

kai ke koko oʻu, kai koʻu iʻo, (Thank you very much for all the explanations about Kaʻu vs. Koʻu !! It was very confusing and I hope I understand everything !)

E mailu mai i nā pule o kāu keiki,

e poina kou naʻau, a lilo i ka nalu kahi e lele ai ke ea. (I looked into ano but I have the impression that it is less formal and less graphic than naʻau ... I searched but you are right I don't know if Kai would have naʻau but I think it sounds better, and given the way akua are considered (they can change shape but also die like humans), perhaps "naʻau" as the seat of the soul remains coherent ...)

Mahalo nui loa @KekoaMonkey


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/KekoaMonkey

Aloha e @LeaBourg63,

ʻAe! Much better! I think the only thing I see is the invocation/addressing of Kai; what I meant was "E Kai ē..." You put the name in between the two.

Noʻu ka hauʻoli, Glad I could give kōkua~~ ^_^v

Just a reminder that I can only help to my knowledge; and in the end seeing Kūpuna in this field would be the wisest choice, but I also understand that there can be an issue of access to these resources. Goodluck with your work, glad you are taking the pono approach and trying to research the best you can.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/LeaBourg63

A THOUSAND TIMES THANK YOU @KekoaMonkey !!

I could never have done all of this without your help so thank you for all your advices and for having the patience to explain everything to me !

Mahalo nui loa !!

PS: I had tried to contact a Kūpuna but for the moment, no answer ... I keep my fingers crossed =)


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/AdultRefre

As a fellow writer, I support your creative effort. I only started Hawaiian this month, so I can't help you with the translation. The spell in English has a wonderful poetic truth, and I know it will sound beautiful in Hawaiian. Ke Akua pu.

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