are you trying to say the comma is supposed to indicate someone wants juice and this is NOT adressed to the juice itself?
... I'm still not convinced :
but yeah, allright.. there's quite the pause after "good day" and he makes a full stop after "sap"
now I'm disillusioned and almost dissapointed too :\ sniff :'(
this is indeed less rude considering you are using it to anwer a question. Still, ''hello, juice'' is literally saying hello TO juice in almost every language. if you want to order juice in the morning you rather could say; ''goedemorgen, sap graag'' or ''goedemorgen, zou ik een sapje mogen'' or even maybe ''goedemorgen, een sapje alstublieft'' wich all means practically the same. i hope you learn something out of this :)
It could be all kind of juices, but in the Netherlands most of the time they mean orangejuice when they say 'sap'. Otherwise they would specify the kind of juice.
But it is not 'sinesappel sap' but 'sinaasappelsap' (without space and with 4 a's). It is also 'appelsap' (without space' and not 'appel sap'. In Dutch you don't use spaces if someting is one word.
In Flanders they use 'appelsiensap' instead of 'sinaasappelsap' and 'appelsien' (for the fruit) instead of 'sinaasappel.
P_Azul When I get to visit the Netherlands, I will be speaking with real people. Conversations do not always happen in complete sentences. If the all important comma wasn't there, then it would be a nonsensical bit of communication. The exception being that someone named Sap was being greeted.
But picture this. A man who is a regular morning customer at the Dutch equivalent of a diner sits down at the counter after 16 hours of flight. He looks up with a sleepy grin at Trijntje his favorite waitress. "Goedendag, sap.", he says as his sleepy eyes can barely stay open.
LOL! So funny! :) I do imagine it will make complete sense if there was a question mark instead of a full stop? Being Afrikaans we use it in that way, although adding a word or two more maybe. Something like "Goeie more, sap vir jou?" but if you are in a hurry it's similar to the English "Good morning. Juice?"
I have no friends so I am going to talk to my glass of orange juice.
Me: Good day, Juice Orange Juice: Good day, Lucisawesome. Me: How did you sleep? OJ: Good. The cat didn't drink me this time. How about you? Me: Good. Are you excited for the Patriots and Giants game tonight? OJ: Oh, you bet I am. Me: We have a test today in Dutch. OJ: Really? Me: Yeah. OJ: Poop Me: I always get stuck on one particular sentence. OJ: What sentence? Me: "Ik drinkt het sap." OJ: Oh, hee hee. Awkward silence Me: Gulp, gulp, gulp, gulp.
Before introducing all the words with the letter G, it would really help if you would explain some of the pronunciation ahead of time. Until the pronunciation is explained a bit, hearing all those -ij combos and g pronounced like h leaves the novice with a lot of cognitive dissonance.
Also, I have a historical linguistics question: how did Dutch end up with g having the h sound? For two adjacent letters to have the same pronunciation seems really odd to me.
Well, sounds don't change in languages based on their closeness in the alphabet, as writing is secondary to spoken language.
Short answer: it's not that strange. The sound you're hearing isn't a h, it's what might be written in English as gh. The sound typically represented by the letter g is a voiced velar stop and the sound you're hearing here is a voiced velar fricative. The main difference is that the second has less tension at the back of the mouth.
As ataltane says, Dutch g and h are not in fact the same: in je hoed is goed (your hat is good) hoed and goed have different sounds: Dutch h is like English h; Dutch g is articulated with the same part of the tongue as English g but (not to be too technical about it) the sound is "scraped" rather than being a complete stop-and-release.
Many people don't seem to understand the importance of the comma.
Without a comma you are saying 'good day' to the juice. Thats a bit crazy, but also funny and with some fantasy, if you have children, if you have ever seen a Disney movie, ... you can see it is not that far-fetched.
But there is a comma. So the 'good day' an the juice are seperated. You are not wishing a good day to the juice. You are wishing somebody a good day and you are saying/asking for a juice.
I enter a reception. There is a table where you can get coffee, tea or juice. I walk to the table and say to the waiter behind the desk: 'Goedendag, sap (alsjeblieft)'.
A very normal sentence and as a native Dutch (Flemish) speaker I can guarantee that nobody would find it strange if I say that. I am pretty sure I have used that sentence in the past.
I have been always thinking about this sentence as a situation in which a man enters a small grocery shop. He always takes the same sort of juice and the seller knows that very well. So he just says "goedendag" as a greeting and adds just "sap" to confirm that he will take the same thing as always. ;)
Pay attention to the placement of the comma. This is an example of spoken Dutch as opposed to literary written Dutch. If there wasn't a comma the person would indeed be saying Good Morning to an unspecified container and quantity of Juice. "Good morning juice." Now, with the comma strategically inserted it is likely an English speaking tourist has just woken up. He or she is not fully awake. He or she sits down at a table or counter. The tourist catches the waiter's eye, "Goedendag, sap.". It's the best, the tourist having just arrived and jet lagged, can manage. It is enough to get started.
For those of you who have a long flight through multiple time zones, you may actually find yourself in a very similar situation. Being jet lagged, you may very well be lucky you don't say, "Goedemorgen, Ik ben geen banaan. Ik ken een sinaasappelsap het loopt. At which point your server, like most people believes it's kinder to be direct says,"Please, enough. You are murdering my language. I speak English better than your Dutch. Please order in English."
This is Dutch, not English. So, maybe the Dutch don't use "good day" for both greeting and farewell like it is in English. I'm not saying this for certain, as I'm new to the language. But, it's good to keep in mind that phrases don't always carry identical function from language to language. :)
I say "goedemorgen", "goedemiddag" and "goedenavond" for hello-greetings and "fijne dag verder" and "fijne avond verder" as bye-greetings.
I find "goedendag" a bit formal, so I don't use that one. Some people use "dag" as hello-greeting, but for me it has a strong meaning as bye-greeting. For hello I use "hoi" or "hallo" and for bye I use "doei" or "dag".
For example, I wrote an answer: "Good afternoon, juice". It showed that I made a mistake and by correct answer there was given a notice: "For good afternoon, the Dutch greeting "goedenmiddag" is more appropriate|". Did creators make a mistake on this explanation, because in lesson "goedenmiddag" is written as "goedemiddag", but now it is explained as "goedeNmiddag". Who can explain, how the heck to understand all this? :)
Curiously, Dutch went from a period where most sensible spellings were allowed as variations, to one that allowed only the standard spelling, to now where even the standard may have been changed without allowing variations. Probably, once enough teachers have been forced into forcing enough pupils to follow the current rules, the previously correct forms will die out, regardless of which rules are superior.
At < https://woordenlijst.org > you'll find the currently taught rule is "goedemiddag".
Hi Chelsey, please remember that volunteers have to clean the forums and there are over 300,000,000 users on Duolingo. When people leave casual comments that aren't asking a question related to the sentence or answer it, it creates clutter. When everyone does that, it consumes thousands of volunteer hours a year. Here are some Tips for using the Sentence Discussions. Thanks!
No prob! After posting this, I realized this whole sentence discussion was full of casual comments. It can certainly be confusing how to use the SDs when they get cluttered. I can see how you got the wrong impression. The desktop website has a discussion forum that, while still for discussing language, is not nearly as constrained as the SDs. https://forum.duolingo.com/ :)
I've gone out to find myself. If you see me before I return keep me there. I want to have a discussion with me, myself and I.
Not in a restaurant (too much choice). But it is possible at a reception where the waiter offers someone the choice between sparkling wine and juice. Ok in a household where a parent offers two different drinks with the meal (one being juice).
People who say this is an unrealistic phrase are wrong.
Met alle respect, meneer VanHoof, als geboren Nederlandse vind ik het een nogal hufterige manier van communiceren en daarom niet normaal, noch aanbevelingswaardig als oefenzin. Ik begrijp dat u het niet met mij eens bent. Dat is prima. Maar misschien is het goed om u uit te leggen dat om reden van dit soort van taalgebruik buitenlanders (o.a. mijn man) Nederlanders vaak nogal lomp vinden. Misschien hebben die andere 45 studenten het niet zo slecht begrepen als u denkt/dacht.
Heb je de inspanning gedaan om mijn voorgaande reacties te lezen?
Intonatie, context, ... zijn belangrijk. Maar ik ken omstandigheden waar ik perfect 'goedendag, sap' kan gebruiken zonder hufterig over te komen.
Standaard zou ik die zin niet gebruiken. Maar waarom begrijpen mensen niet dat een taal leren zoveel meer is dan het leren van wat standaard zinnen. Ik begrijp echt niet waarom sommige mensen zo zwaar aan deze zin tillen. Een zin waarvan de meeste mensen blijkbaar onmiddellijk begrijpen dat deze niet standaard is.
Most people will not pronounce the 'n' in 'goedendag'. They say: 'goededag'. Even 'goeiedag' is a 'normal' prononciation.
But goedendag is a much less used then 'goedemorgen', 'goedemiddag', 'goedenavond' and 'goedenacht'. The n in goedenavond is also not pronounced by many people.
In Dutch it's (also) more common to say "goedemorgen" or "goedemiddag" than to say "goedendag". But it's better to stick to the more literal translation. "Goedendag" can be used in the afternoon, but it can also be used in the morning and then 'good afternoon' is incorrect.