"Het meisje en de jongen eten rijst."

Translation:The girl and the boy eat rice.

July 16, 2014

65 Comments


https://www.duolingo.com/Patrick-Justin

From what I understand between 'De' and 'Het' , De is used when gender is assigned. So why is it that it begins with Het? Would the correct sentence not be 'De meisje en de jongen eten rijst' ?

July 20, 2014

https://www.duolingo.com/johaquila

First, "when gender is assigned" doesn't make any sense. In Dutch every noun has gender. I think what you mean is that de is the definite article for the common gender, which is the result of merging the masculine and feminine genders, whereas het is the definite article for the neuter gender.

It is important to distinguish between grammatical gender (Standard Dutch: common gender, neuter gender; Flemish and German: masculine, feminine and neuter gender) and natural sex (male, female and neutral/things). There is a statistical correspondence between the two, but it's not a strict equivalence.

In English, there is no such thing as grammatical gender. The personal pronouns are assigned according to sex and the articles don't distinguish at all.

In German (and, I believe, Flemish), only grammatical gender matters. The articles are assigned only according to grammatical gender. For the personal pronouns this is mostly true as well, though when grammatical gender and natural sex don't agree, most people switch at some point because it feels so awkward to refer to a girl as it or to a company as she.

Dutch is in between these two extremes. The articles are assigned only according to grammatical gender. But the personal pronouns are usually often assigned according to natural sex, as in English.

Meisje is one of those words for which grammatical gender and natural sex don't agree. This is because all diminutives have neuter gender:

  • de meid (the maid[en]) - feminine gender in Flemish, hence common gender in Dutch
  • de jongen (the boy) - masculine gender in Flemish, hence common gender in Dutch

  • het meidje, simplified to het meisje (the little maid[en]) - neuter gender

  • het jongetje (the little boy) - neuter gender.

For some reason that probably has to do with the fact that meid was originally a job description whereas jongen originally meant young one, the diminutive is practically required for girls and quite unusual for boys.

July 20, 2014

https://www.duolingo.com/slipperysadhu

so in Flemish 'de meisje' would be correct ??? I am going to speak this laguage in Belgium so these things count a lot. And what is with things? 'de apple' but 'het brood' .

August 18, 2014

https://www.duolingo.com/johaquila

No, in Flemish it is also het meisje. What is different in Flemish is that masculine and feminine are not yet merged into a single common gender. There is no difference about the neuter gender.

Flemish speakers are still aware that de appel is masculine and de banaan is feminine. So they are likely to refer to an apple as hij and to a banana as zij. In Northern Dutch, zij is only used when referring to a de noun that describes a female person or animal. Northern Dutch speakers use hij for all other de words. (And of course het for het words, just like Flemish speakers do.)

Given the exposure of Flemish speakers to Northern Dutch, I wouldn't worry about the difference.

August 18, 2014

https://www.duolingo.com/NixaEG14

Thank you that makes a lot more sense. ;)

March 7, 2015

https://www.duolingo.com/CadinnoDovero

Great explanation!!! Thanks.

March 10, 2016

https://www.duolingo.com/sixpathscc

Het is used for meisje because meisje ends with -je (-je is a dimunitive, het is used for all dimunitives and dimunitives take precedence over gender).

Also, de is used for singular masculine and feminine nouns (vrouw, man, jongen).

Hope this helps.

August 18, 2014

https://www.duolingo.com/Liorde95

So every time a word end with one of the dimunitives, such as je, it might be a het word?

September 18, 2014

https://www.duolingo.com/johaquila

To clarify the terminology: -je is a diminutive suffix. If you stick it to the end of a noun, the result is called a diminutive.

Diminutives are indeed always het words.

Diminutives are very popular in Dutch, even in situations when you wouldn't dream of using them in English. Theoretically we could make use of this fact when we have forgotten the gender of a noun. Just turn it into a diminutive and the original gender doesn't matter any more.

September 21, 2014

https://www.duolingo.com/kahill5

Grammer and such is not something I'm great in even in english, and I am very confused by what a "diminutive" is? i tried googling it but am still confused?

December 13, 2014

https://www.duolingo.com/johaquila

It's just an ending (or sometimes a prefix) that you can stick to a noun to make it appear smaller - much like adding the word little. (Or more precisely, the diminutive is the word that results.) Some diminutives are neutral, and some carry strong positive or negative connotations. English doesn't really have diminutives any more, but it still has plenty of words that were originally diminutives.

E.g. practically every first name ending in -y was originally a diminutive of the corresponding first name without -y. In fact, they are still often used this way. This is why a little boy called John may be referred to as "Johnny" (typically in the phrase "little Johnny"), but for an adult it's much less likely except it's actually their official name. (Diminutives are getting more and more popular as official first names because lots of parents thinking about names for their baby aren't thinking further than the first few years.)

Other, more obscure diminutives with some traces in English include:

  • -ling (darling = little dear one, duckling = little duck, sterling = little star)
  • -let (starlet = little star, droplet = little drop, applet = little application)

The closest thing that English has to an actual productive diminutive affix (i.e. a suffix or prefix that you can still use to form new words almost freely) is probably the prefix mini-.

December 13, 2014

https://www.duolingo.com/AnikaMears

I understand meijse uses 'het' because of the '-je', but it doesnt really make sense to me why even though jongen doesnt have the '-je', you use de instead of het? Is jongen not still a dimunitive? Why does boy and girl use different forms of the?

December 9, 2015

https://www.duolingo.com/johaquila

In English, grammatical gender is all about meaning, but that's a relatively recent innovation. In Proto-Germanic it was just about grammatical form, and in Dutch it often still is because Dutch hasn't finished the transformation yet.

Diminutive isn't a generic term for words denoting small things or people; it's a technical term for such a word that only applies when it is formed from another by means of a regular transformation. In Dutch that means adding -je (or one of its variants depending on how the original word ends), or occasionally adding -ke or -lijn. Saying that jongen is a diminutive is a misunderstanding like saying that marriage is a conjunction, or that action and active are verbs.

Jong is an adjective meaning young, and de jongen is a derived noun meaning young one. Nouns derived from adjectives get either the natural gender of whatever they signify, or if there is an implied noun they can get the grammatical gender of that noun. Therefore, if jongen had started as a word for little children it might have started as a het word because het kind would have been implied. But it probably started as a word for young men, so natural gender and grammatical gender of the implied noun de man agreed that it should be masculine (which together with feminine became common gender in modern Dutch). So this is mostly about meaning, though form can play a role.

Diminutives are different. In them, the original principle that grammatical gender is determined by grammatical form is still strong.

It is also important to understand that diminutives are probably not common enough to influence the nature of the transformation from formal grammatical gender to natural gender. Nouns are unlikely to become het words just because they denote small people or animals, and if de words for small objects turn into het words, then it is only because they denote objects, not because of their smallness.

December 10, 2015

https://www.duolingo.com/MohammadFa116434

so it is just the same as in german, adding -chen suffix will always make the noun gender neutral. is that correct?

February 19, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/johaquila

Yes, all German diminutives have neuter gender as well.

February 19, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/craysiii

I think that meisje being diminutive takes precedence over it being a person

July 20, 2014

https://www.duolingo.com/kimberlytylr

It is the same in German with Mädchen (lit. "little maid"). Even though this is a girl, adding -chen to the end of the word makes it a neuter noun: das Mädchen.

December 16, 2014

https://www.duolingo.com/asturt

Here is a very good (I thought, very clear) explanation of the difference between "De" and "Het" and other marked and unmarked, stressed and unstressed pronouns: https://www.duolingo.com/comment/3734337

October 26, 2014

https://www.duolingo.com/-Katrina.-

Could it be eet instead of eten?

July 16, 2014

https://www.duolingo.com/Simius

No, you have to use the plural form "eten". Using the singular "eet" would be like saying: "the girl and the boy eats rice."

July 16, 2014

https://www.duolingo.com/-Katrina.-

Ohhh, ok, thanks! :)

July 17, 2014

https://www.duolingo.com/Urthb

As an english native speaker I know that doesn't sound right but I understand it and makes it sound like a person from a rural area said it. Would it be similar if talking to some one that is a native speaker or dutch? They would just think your from a rural area or would they just thin k your stupid because you don't know the grammar?

August 30, 2014

https://www.duolingo.com/johaquila

Good point. In that respect Simius' comparison wasn't perfect.

A little complication we have here is that in the sentence we have the boy and the girl, not the children. When two singulars are connected by and, the odds that someone uses the singular form of the verb are slightly increased (at least in my native German, and probably also in Dutch), though it's not correct.

August 31, 2014

https://www.duolingo.com/peter933474

Not in Dutch it is wrong

July 23, 2017

https://www.duolingo.com/PaulineStinson

no, it wouldn't sound like a dialect, just lacking knowledge of grammar.. sorry :)

November 12, 2014

https://www.duolingo.com/-HystErica-

Unfortunately, here in the US, lacking knowledge of grammar is the basis of most regional dialects... :P

November 3, 2015

https://www.duolingo.com/JackStorey

Could the second 'the' be optional e.g. "The girl and boy eat rice"?

July 17, 2014

https://www.duolingo.com/aokoye

I would think that the second "the" in English could be omitted. I don't know enough about Dutch grammar to tell you if the article could be omitted in Dutch but "The girl and boy eat rice." should be an alternate sentence in English.

July 17, 2014

https://www.duolingo.com/johaquila

As a native German speaker I am pretty confident that the second article in Dutch cannot be omitted because it's a different grammatical gender from the first one. As in German, Dutch girls have neuter gender because technically the words meisje and Mädchen are diminutives, whereas boys have common gender (in Dutch) or masculine gender (in Flemish and German) as expected, because the words jongen and Junge are not diminutives.

As a result, your English sentence "The girl and boy eat rice" can only be translated to Dutch by duplicating the definite article. It follows that it is in fact a correct English translation of the Dutch sentence.

July 19, 2014

https://www.duolingo.com/Magister_Smith

Any chance of conjugation charts on mouseover? I know I can find them elsewhere on the net, but they are available in other languages on DL when learning the beginning levels

July 28, 2014

https://www.duolingo.com/Lavinae
Mod
  • 16

We currently do not have that feature.

When it comes to features for incubated courses, these first have to be developed and can then be implemented universally. ^^

August 18, 2014

https://www.duolingo.com/raemlpz

What is the difference between eet and eten?

February 17, 2015

https://www.duolingo.com/johaquila

The same as between am/are(singular)/is and are(plural)/be.

February 17, 2015

https://www.duolingo.com/yadwinder_gadari

So "eten" is plural or is it sort of an "ing" form of "eat" in Dutch ?

February 26, 2015

https://www.duolingo.com/johaquila

It is both. And it's the infinitive, too:

  • Ik/jij/hij/zij eet. (singular)
  • Wij/jullie/zij eten. (plural)
  • aan het eten zijn (present participle)
  • Wil je eten? Eten is belangrijk! (infinitive)
February 26, 2015

https://www.duolingo.com/Im-A-Kitty

Easy way to remeber boterham. Butter—ham. A butter ham sandwich ;P

March 27, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/AlexSeeney

When eten gives "eat" and "eating" as acceptable translations, why is "eating" marked as incorrect?

October 14, 2014

https://www.duolingo.com/johaquila

Because it depends on context which of these translations is correct. Most hints are general ones just for the words, not adjusted for the context in which they appear.

  • "The girl and the boy eat rice." - Correct translation, though it's hard to think of a context in which this is the required translation. (Nevertheless I usually enter this kind of variant when I am on my Android phone, to save typing.)
  • "The girl and the boy are eating rice." - Correct translation, and the best in the most likely contexts.
  • "The girl and the boy eating rice." - Not a full sentence; makes sense in English as a description of a particular girl and boy (the ones who are eating rice). But since the Dutch sentence can't be read that way (in Dutch you can't drop the relative pronoun), it's not a correct translation.

Just eating on its own would e.g. be the correct translation of eten in this sentence:

  • "Eten is belangrijk." - "Eating is important."

Or it can appear in the Dutch progressive:

  • "Hij is rijst aan het eten." - "He is eating rice."
October 14, 2014

https://www.duolingo.com/TylerRuzich

I got it correct but what us the past tense form of eat in dutch

November 4, 2014

https://www.duolingo.com/Lavinae
Mod
  • 16

'To eat' in the simple past is 'at' (singular) or 'aten' (plural).
This is the conjugation:

  • I ate = Ik at
  • You ate = Jij at
  • S/he/It ate = Zij/Hij/Hat at
  • We ate = Wij aten
  • You ate = Jullie aten
  • They ate = Zij aten
November 4, 2014

https://www.duolingo.com/alessione_arg

"Jongen" is plural, isn't it?

November 16, 2014

https://www.duolingo.com/johaquila

No, it just looks like one by accident. The plural of jongen is jongens.

November 16, 2014

https://www.duolingo.com/J_Koutoh

From this question, i noticed that "het" was used for feminine and "de" was used for masculine...is that the case?

November 17, 2014

https://www.duolingo.com/Lavinae
Mod
  • 16

No, 'meisje' is a diminutive and this is why it receives the article 'het'.

More information about the correct use of articles can be found here or elsewhere in this thread (scroll up). :)

November 17, 2014

https://www.duolingo.com/Lo-Lo98

I do not under stand the difference between "de" and ''het" can some one help.

February 20, 2015

https://www.duolingo.com/johaquila

For the plural it's always de. For the singular it's de for roughly two thirds of all words (common gender words) and het for the others (neuter gender words). The gender of words is just something you have to learn.

February 26, 2015

https://www.duolingo.com/unitypeter

Why is it eten and not eet?

May 28, 2015

https://www.duolingo.com/johaquila

Because the boy and the girl together are two persons, hence plural. Eten is the infinitive, plural and progressive form of the verb.

May 28, 2015

https://www.duolingo.com/Rosy117426

"Het" vs "De" ?

February 10, 2016

https://www.duolingo.com/johaquila

Meisje is a het word because it was originally the diminutive of de meid (little maid). All diminutives are automatically het words. Jongen is a de word because it was originally something like de jonge man (young man). See also discussions elsewhere on this page.

February 11, 2016

https://www.duolingo.com/Emerson2121

Why would jongen change from boy to lad?

February 10, 2016

https://www.duolingo.com/johaquila

Why would you ask that question? What are you referring to? Jongen literally means young [one]. It's used for a wide range of ages, covering both boy and lad.

February 11, 2016

https://www.duolingo.com/Cen808631

I couldn't hear the pronunciation of rijst,.What is the correct pronunciation of it? :)

March 14, 2017

https://www.duolingo.com/notaprofessional

im not a professional, but according to https://forvo.com/word/rijst/ , it's pronounced as "rest" or "raist" . I hope this helps !

May 20, 2017

https://www.duolingo.com/CEKuZ

If we want to say "is eating", would it be is eet or is eten?

June 23, 2017

https://www.duolingo.com/johaquila

Dutch isn't just English with different words. It's a different language. Dutch for "He is eating" is normally just "Hij eet" (literal translation: "He eats"), or when you really want to stress the progressive aspect it's "Hij is aan het eten" (literal translation: "He is at the eating").

June 23, 2017

https://www.duolingo.com/mutiarajas

Why eten ?

October 5, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/johaquila

The girl and the boy are together two people. Therefore the plural form of the verb is required.

For all Dutch verbs, the (first, second, third person) plural present tense form is identical to the infinitive and to the present participle and gerund ('-ing form' in English).

October 5, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/Daddeo007

Could this also be "The girl and the boy eats rice"

March 1, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/PolvandenBleek

No, that's grammatically incorrect in English.

March 1, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/doodlenood6

I had it wright and it said it was wrong then it corrected me with what i had said

June 5, 2019
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