Mar Plateado Spanish Immersion Team (July 17-August 15, 2014 session)
This replaces the discussion for the previous session: https://www.duolingo.com/comment/3368345
This session is now closed. The new session is at: https://www.duolingo.com/comment/4158276
WHO WE ARE
The Mar Plateado Spanish Immersion Team is an informal group of native-English speakers who use the “Immersion” mechanism of Duolingo.com to support our study of Spanish. We believe that serious students should work with entire documents, not just isolated sentences, and we work together to produce complete translations. Any serious student who shares these goals is welcome to join us. To join, just sponsor a document that you intend to finish. Details are here: https://www.duolingo.com/comment/2824354 Happy translating!
ACTIVE ARTICLES (limited to one per sponsor):
Bañares (gamesmasterg9) https://www.duolingo.com/translation/26666f242772310cba9466f860ad8ee6
Revolución mexicana (GregHullender) https://www.duolingo.com/translation/6a7c3b8404d5b36ef95dda292217dc8f
“Defensa de las mujeres”: el conformismo obligado de Feijoo en la España del siglo XVIII (Markmcopc) https://www.duolingo.com/translation/8b63bcd9827638040722761e5f13bcb9
Mauna Loa (AlexisLinguist) https://www.duolingo.com/translation/3e7706a66363b88db6bbfc34f61be3a9
Steve Jobs (Luyematsu) https://www.duolingo.com/translation/ba1f822f2507708bde489cbba33ca919
READY ARTICLES Translation complete but proofreading is needed.
IN-PROGRESS ARTICLES Translation incomplete and help is welcome.
Nuestra Señora del Prado [Ciudad Real] (mommarigo) https://www.duolingo.com/translation/9a1baf477d8e57164965bfc944c63bd4
Catedral de Santa María de Palma de Mallorca (mommarigo)(https://www.duolingo.com/translation/e262974d2b42c24f716b4d44ea573386)
COMPLETED ARTICLES: signed off by sponsor
Cathedrals in Spain: (Professor01) https://www.duolingo.com/translation/2a879f88c03bdae2b4f169d6f8deb961
Eurocrats vs. Perfumes (Professor01) https://www.duolingo.com/translation/1180e2f5f6a7cc5d1d92ec9edb6810b1
Aterrizar el 'Derecho al Olvido' tecnologia (The new European Internet "Right to Leave Behind...") (Professor01) https://www.duolingo.com/translation/f0e7683cf5bd446c9a2ce2c0a205be53
Centenares de bacterias terrestres pueden haber llegado a Marte con el rover Curiosity (AureliaUK) https://www.duolingo.com/translation/f03fc451a8385defea6db95c7521e23b
Hallan signos evidentes en el Pacífico de que se avecina un importante fenómeno de El Niño (Luyematsu) https://www.duolingo.com/translation/705c5e271835647bf9e8e1b24d07ae0e
Barak Obama (DickLuijten) https://www.duolingo.com/translation/e1d2c913184ebe69607dd99440acfb24
John Updike (Professor01) https://www.duolingo.com/translation/192620f1794025f1ded9595a31df435a
Quebrada de San Lorenzo (mommarigo) https://www.duolingo.com/translation/49dbbb0ee6e6f2b1e326b488cf758d2b
¿A qué se debe la misteriosa formación de los 'círculos de hadas' en Namibia? (Luyematsu) https://www.duolingo.com/translation/ff79fc55d5110afbd9c57650ff74f1cc
Dia de los Santos Inocentes (mommarigo) https://www.duolingo.com/translation/acef6de88fee0075147d1b7771392343
Hallan a un joven argentino "crucificado" y con un cartel de "no robarás" (Luyematsu) https://www.duolingo.com/translation/0b8094645e35e9940f2eb8cd423db4fe
A Chat About Theatre, with Federico García Lorca: (Professor01) https://www.duolingo.com/translation/d32a407dbff00fdb2247c601d7fe6729
Idioma Chamorro (sanlee) https://www.duolingo.com/translation/0a51f2027d020719725b738e5f8e1f23
Boiga irregularis (sanlee) https://www.duolingo.com/translation/965450d813ddc16e85f8110d19208ea3
Berlín-Brandeburgo: este aeropuerto es una ruina (sanlee) https://www.duolingo.com/translation/5e1f185e03ca9e8d074475c4fac3c7a1
Infraestructura, agua y seguridad: los retos de la Ciudad de México. Entrevista con Miguel Ángel Mancera, alcalde capitalino. (BenjaminVigreux) https://www.duolingo.com/translation/9ac845eb4d4a36193bfc9e63522c9fc3
lol, I almost missed this because it was at the top instead of the bottom.
Thanks for taking over Lisa. Dick, isn't Barack Obama done yet? It's all green for me :)
Buen día, Lisa. Here is an article for the "Ready" section (A Chat About Theatre, with Federico García Lorca): https://www.duolingo.com/translation/d32a407dbff00fdb2247c601d7fe6729
"Cathedrals of Spain," Eurocrats-Perfumes, and "Aterrizar el Derecho de Olividar" can now be moved to "Completed."
I think I've done whatever rearranging remained to be done. Please let me know if I've overlooked something. I have adopted Aurelia's articles for now, but I'll have to take a closer look to see if I want to keep them. If anyone wants to adopt either of the Ready articles that now have my name on them, just let me know. Thanks!
Native-English speakers only? I'd love to take part in it, but English is only my second language (though I learn from English on duo)
Hi SDaz. Thanks for stopping by. I think we had put "native English speaker" in the description because we want to make sure the focus is on understanding the Spanish and not on correcting other team members' English. That said, I snooped in your stream, and based on your posts, I think you'll do fine. :)
Thanks! If you don't mind me joining in, I'll select and sponsor a document, and will post it in the stream below :)
The idea was to exclude people who would often change correct sentences into incorrect ones simply because they don't speak English well enough. If you have C2 written English, it should be fine. Also, a comment saying "I'm not sure if this is right" will go a long way. We are all students here, and we can't resist a genuine request to teach someone something. :-)
I just checked the TOEIC equivalency table, I do actually have a C2. I'll make sure to upload an article, so as to join :) Thanks!
There aren't any restrictions. Mar Plateado is just a group of Duo users dedicated to seriously learning Spanish and translating articles on Immersion (not translating five sentences, and then abandoning said article). Message Luyematsu to let her know you want to join.
Am I allowed to help translate without submitting articles? I would like to help finish articles that people actually want translated rather than the same repeating articles about various pop culture characters.
Hello Lisa and fellow MPs, Is anyone interested in translating documents from English into Spanish? Might there be any interest in experimenting with articles in the reverse direction as a part of MP? If the idea is of interest, I could post samples. Thanks. John
Hi John. I actually had this same thought myself the other day. I don't think I personally have a strong enough grasp of Spanish to contribute much to reverse translations, but I sure would like to give it a try (or at least watch you, Greg, and the others in action). I would advise having English to Spanish on a separate thread and we can link to it.
We should probably discuss this in a different thread, but I like the idea, if we could make it work. The challenge with reverse immersion, as I see it, is that we could only do the original translations--making edits would be a recipe for disaster. (For the same reason we excluded non-native speakers from Mar Plateado.) Otherwise we'd get slammed with downvotes every time we damaged a valid translation in the mistaken belief that we were improving it.
But to learn from our work, we would definitely want some native speakers editing and correcting our translations. Especially if we could ask them why. So to make it work, I think we'd need a team comprising both groups.
The more I think about it, the more it seems like we'd be creating a "Silver Sea" group for anyone translating English to Spanish--we'd just have special rules to allow native English speakers with less-than-perfect Spanish to participate.
Or did you have a different plan? I'll admit this sounds a bit heavyweight. I think you have my e-mail; we could hammer out details via e-mail before presenting anything to a larger group, if you'd like.
I would still be concerned with doing the original translations because those could be downvoted by not having sufficient grammar skills in Spanish.
I'd also be concerned that we wouldn't be able to do the group work on it, because if the easy document were to be unlocked, native Spanish speakers would probably jump on it in a heartbeat.
I agree that we should try this as a group.
Hi John, Greg, Lisa and Alexis, I'm all for John's idea. It would be really exciting! Having it on a different thread would be best, I agree. Greg has a great point: we wouldn't be able to rack up 100 comments in the Discussion section beating a word or phrase to death as we look for better alternatives. Our abilities to express in Spanish are not going to be anywhere near what they are in English. I've been doing a couple of English-->Spanish translations lately, and have run into a couple of very helpful Spanish-speaking souls. Perhaps we could start by asking a couple of people personally, to join the group?
Yes, finding Spanish speakers who are studying English will be critical. We'll be a burden on them so we have to be sure that we're giving back in some way. Imagine if some of them were editing our documents, making serious errors in English, and expecting us to explain our corrections. That would be a lot of work.
Probably the best we could offer would be a reciprocal arrangement. If they'll do this for us, we'll do the same for them when they want to translate into English.
Gracias, colegas. Voy a charlar con Greg. QT1BFDS. (Castilian text-messaging for Que Tengáis Un Buen Fin De Semana).
A quick thought for everyone: when you vote something up (or down), Duolingo rearranges the order. In this particular thread, though, I think it helps a lot if things stay in their original order. Would it make sense to encourage people not to vote up (or down) the comments in these "session threads?" Instead, if you really liked something, you should give a lingot. :-) Does that make sense to everyone?
Of course voting up the entire thread is just fine!
It does. This type of post can get very confusing if up-votes/down-votes are used. I've upvoted the main thread, but not any of the main comments.
Good point, Greg! It's especially helpful to the current manager of the discussion if posts remain in chronological order, so thanks for bringing it up.
Luyematsu, I've checked all the way through the El Nino article. looks good to me.
I've just gone through it, and it now shows as 33/33. But I made a content change to the last sentence and would like other eyes to check that one sentence please.
I'm taking a page out of Greg's book by just moving up a team member's topmost "Ready" article to the "Active" section as needed. I'll also scroll through the "In Progress" articles and move them to "Ready" if they're completely translated. If you want me to bump articles back down, just let me know.
Did any of us work on "Mexican Revolution?" I selected it back when it was mostly untranslated, but while I was asleep. :-) people finished it. Except I don't see any of us in there.
I don't mind reviewing someone else's document (or I wouldn't be here), but if I'm going to do that, I want it to benefit us. :-)
Palocortado and gamesmaster seem to have done some work on that article. (btw, I just noticed today that the articles have the translators/editors listed again. Has this been going on for a while, and I've just been oblivious?) A lot of people have worked on it, so I may have overlooked other team members.
Thanks. I'll go through it then, once I'm done with Quebrada de San Lorenzo. (I'm not seeing the editors, so that must not be a global feature yet.)
If when you go to the article, you will see the right hand side the section that has "Legend" - Not translated yet; translation needs checking; etc.
Then go above that, you will see a little tab for contributors. If you click on that, the Legend disappears and the contributors appear instead.
It's sort of hidden.
I have made a complete pass through "Quebrada de San Lorenzo." It's all green to me now.
Thanks Greg! I think both you and Professor01 improved it :) Luyematsu, would you move it to complete?
After a month or so, I finally completed the Mauna Loa. You can move it into the "Ready" section, Lisa. Thank you. :)
Actually moving Mauna Loa up to Active, since you don't already have an article in that section. :) (By the way, my son is a big fan of Lotso. Or he was a while back...he's 14 now.)
Thank you, Lisa. :) (I'm sure he appreciates the photo then, deep down in his heart.) ;)
My son just now saw your profile pic, pointed to it, and said "Gotta love it!" So he's not too old and cool for Lotso. :)
Awesome, I will never be too old for a good Pixar movie (and characters). :)
Is anyone interested in adopting Benjamin's Infraestructura article? He hasn't been active on Duo at all for the entire month, let alone on MP. For now, I'll move it down to Abandoned. I'm kinda sad. :( It was Benjamin's post that inspired a few of us to start what would become MP.
I think everyone is having a summertime slump. Here in Seattle, attendence at meetup groups for French, Spanish, and Italian is about half of what it was in the winter. When the sun it bright and the sky is blue, people find other things to do. :-) I expect he'll be back.
I hope it's just that. Since I'm in Southern California and the sky is usually blue, and right now it's in the 90s, I would rather be inside on Duolingo!
I assume everyone has seen this discussion about forming a different group: https://www.duolingo.com/comment/3880773
I think it's fine to have multiple groups. From what I can tell, the only real difference is going to be that they plan to ban Wikipedia articles. I don't see any reason for us to make any changes, although I do think we should find a way to reach out to native Spanish speakers who want to practice writing English. My thinking is that we'd want them to translate--not edit--and always put in a comment like "Native Spanish speaker" so people would know not to flag them as bots and so we would know that they welcome explanations for changes. They could help a lot with really difficult sentences too, I think. As opposed to us hunting up native-speaker friends and asking questions. :-)
Yes, let's not get rid of Wikipedia articles. They're very useful for practice and not above my skill level. I'm just remembering that Borges excerpt the group was working on....I was so out of my depth there!
Inviting native Spanish speakers could make for some great discussions!
The Borges story was also an example of an editing group with (in my view) all the wrong priorities. They favored unnaturally literal translations. They put a lot of effort into picky issues of English capitalization, punctuation, and usage. They never commented when they made changes. They tended to revert any edit made by someone they didn't know (even if they hadn't edited that sentence at all). And they were downright rude if you tried to communicate with them in private.
In my view, the biggest thing we've accomplished here is creating a group where the expectation is that we are working together in a friendly way to get good translations. Cooperating and having fun at the same time. We can edit each other without fear that someone will get mad at us. And if there's a problem with a third party, we have each other's backs.
Luyematsu, could you move "Dia de los Santos Inocentes " to the completed section? I went to look over it tonight, and it's finished. thanks!
Hi everyone! It's almost the end of my shift....is anyone up for taking on the next shift? :)
We should probably talk a bit about what we can do to attract more interest. It seems to me that participation has fallen off a lot. I know that I've been putting more effort into French and Italian the past few months, and I know Aurelia is focusing on German.
The creation of the literary group is an interesting development. Our focus was always on learning how to translate, which meant working with modern texts at a reasonable reading level. Wikipedia articles worked well for that. Perhaps we should emphasize that we're very open to intermediate Spanish speakers. I think some folks have been shy for fear that they weren't good enough to work with us.
Perhaps we shouldn't require that they come up with an article in order to join, but welcome them to dabble around in the existing articles whenever they want. I know I have a hard time finding an article that's the right level, is reasonably interesting, and isn't in the midst of being churned through by a bunch of literalists.
"open to intermediate Spanish speakers": You might want to rephrase that. I don't even consider myself an intermediate Spanish speaker although I'm probably an intermediate Spanish reader. I'm more of a visual person, so my speaking and listening skills are way behind my reading skills.
It never crossed my mind that people would think that posting a document was a requirement. However, I suppose we do need some way for them to introduce themselves.
By "intermediate" I really mean someone who's at about the B2 reading level or higher. Have you checked out the level definitions lately? https://www.teachers.cambridgeesol.org/ts/exams/cefr/b2
I thought that posting a document was a requirement, which is why I earlier asked if I could participate without doing so. Specifically, I thought it meant I had to have something in Spanish that I wanted translated into English to upload to Immersion. Are we actually selecting existing articles in Immersion and sponsoring them to be completed? Then what happens with it after that? Up to the original poster of the article? I would be up for picking an existing Immersion article, but not for uploading my own. I do like the group and I want to help actually finish things. It bothers me to see so many unfinished articles in Immersion.
Some people have found articles in the wild to bring to Duolingo. I have never uploaded to Duo and only sponsor existing articles in Immersion that are interesting to me and seem to be neglected. (In fact, that was the original inspiration for this group...people were tired of seeing orphaned articles!)
We haven't been notifying the original poster of the article. I figure that if the OP really cared, they would be keeping tabs on their articles, if they were planning on uploading to Wiki or otherwise taking some kind of action.
Please do find an existing article and bring it to the group!
ETA: I did respond to your previous post, but I see how my answer may not have been specific enough to reassure you.
Yes, I did see your previous response! But thank you even more for the extra clarification! I should be able to find an existing article to post.
How do we submit articles for the next session? Just post it in the new thread?
Yes, just post the link and title in the next thread. Or here, and it will carry over into the next thread.
While I'm still participating, I don't think I can do the next shift. I don't think I'm going to have the time available. :/
Hi Luyematsu, Thanks for doing this shift of MP. Please move my articles to complete. I appreciate everyone's help. Great job.
Hi Lisa. Chat About Theater can now be moved to Complete. Many thanks. John
I'd like this article to be put into the 'In-Progress' section: Sintaxis https://www.duolingo.com/translation/fbe38adaf707735790b01176a6508c2a
Hi Magalie48! Thanks for stopping by. I'll add your article to the top post when I can get to my desktop computer. Please let us know if you have any questions. :)
Thank you. In the meantime, the text 'Syntaxis' has been finished thanks to you and AlexLinguist. So it could be moved to the Ready Articles Section, as I am sure it will need a thorough correction. I transIated most of it, but I am a translator and not a linguist. I am eagerly awaiting your corrections, because I learn a lot from them. If there are passages that sound a little bit strange in English, this is due to the fact that I have to translate from a language I am still learning to a language which is not my mother tongue (which is Dutch).