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"Jij draagt hemden."

Translation:You wear shirts.

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4 years ago

29 Comments


https://www.duolingo.com/Lenkvist
Lenkvist
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I wouldn't call a "shirt" a "hemd". A hemd is a piece of undergarment.

Wiktionary says:

Noun

hemd n (plural hemden, diminutive hemdje n)

  1. (Belgium, Suriname) a shirt (article of clothing)
  2. (Netherlands) an undershirt

hemd

overhemd

t-shirt/shirt (same pronunciation as in English)

42
Reply44 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/Lavinae
Lavinae
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Looking into this! :)

There's a reason why we chose to eventually include 'hemd' as a best translation for shirt in the other course, but I've forgotten what this very reason was... ^^"

Thanks for the images & feedback Lenkvist!

29
Reply24 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/Goim
Goim
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fun fact in german its exactly opposite. the overhemd is the standard translationg, the undergarment would be "Unterhemd" =)

4
Reply4 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/coisasdecasa
coisasdecasa
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Lenkvist is right. At least my visual Dutch-German dictionary states exactly the same thing as he does.

0
Reply2 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/El2theK
El2theK
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1
Reply2 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/Lenkvist
Lenkvist
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Well, it can, but wiktionary says it's not used like that in The Netherlands. The course was always called Dutch (Netherlands) to indicate the difference.

For the English for Dutch course, the team has been very reluctant when it comes to accepting Flemish words. For example, "dress" could not be translated as "kleed" because that would be too confusing for people from the Netherlands (even though they would never see that option).

My post was a reaction to those discussions. I felt it was rather ironic for the course to use "hemd" because I would never use that word for "een overhemd" or "een t-shirt".

I hope the next course version will teach these words separately.

I also recommend the inclusion of the word "trui" (sweater, jumper) as it's quite common as well.

1
Reply2 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/El2theK
El2theK
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If the use of hemd as overhemd / shirt was limited to Belgium Van Dale would indicate this by putting België next to the definition of overhemd, which is not the case.

Other than that I am Dutch and apart from using hemd myself to refer to overhemd / shirt I have experienced plenty of native Dutch speakers from the Netherlands using it in a similar way. In other words, it is not Flemish.

Please bear in mind that anyone can provide information to Wiktionary, hence it is best to check with authoritative sources like www.vandale.nl.

Furthermore, what you refer to as a hemd in your post can also be referred to as a onderhemd, some people could argue they only refer to that using onderhemd yet that doesn't mean hemd all of a sudden is wrong.

1
Reply2 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/Lenkvist
Lenkvist
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You are absolutely right, of course :)

Like I said, I wrote my original comment due to my experience with discussions on the English for Dutch course. Duolingo's sentence discussions have taught me things about English and Dutch that I didn't know before. If someone provides a good source for their claims, then I have no problem accepting them.

I just wish the same attitude had been employed with adopting Flemish terms. Someone went as far as creating an image to explain the difference between "kleed" and "jurk" to Flemish speakers. While the intention may have been good, the result might have been that Flemish people felt they were treated like they were dumb. It also sent out the message to outsiders who don't know Dutch that people from the Netherlands and people from Belgium have trouble communicating with each other through words.

That was my reason for using images as well. I accept your interpretation of the word "hemd" just like I accept people's use of "kleed" for "dress" or "tas" for "cup". I hope you now understand my position.

0
2 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/coisasdecasa
coisasdecasa
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Dat klopt. Bedankt!

0
Reply2 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/ZelvaCZ
ZelvaCZ
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Is singular 'hemd' really wrong?

3
Reply4 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/Joao1362
Joao1362
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i guess if it was singular there'd be a "een" in between, "jij draagt een hemd"

14
Reply44 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/ZelvaCZ
ZelvaCZ
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Oh, I think you are right :) Thank you, lingot :)

2
Reply4 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/Joao1362
Joao1362
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geen probleem! :)

2
Reply4 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/davidvdb
davidvdb
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Yes, if the translation is shirts.

0
Reply4 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/ZelvaCZ
ZelvaCZ
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Yes but there wasn't any translation.. i had to choose between 'hemd' or 'hemden'..

(If there's is a translation in this type of exercise and if I didn't see it, correct me)

2
Reply4 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/Susande
Susande
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In normal (full) sentences only plural indefinite nouns are not preceded by a noun. For all singular nouns there has to be an article (de/het for definite, een for indefinite), plural definite nouns take de.

5
Reply4 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/LoesVanBos
LoesVanBos
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Can this also mean "You carry shirts"?

1
Reply4 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/johaquila
johaquila
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Sounds a bit strange to me without a special context, but "You are carrying shirts" would make perfect sense.

3
Reply4 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/Nootmuzkaatje

Lenkvist is not totally right with 'hemd = undergarment'. Hemd is quite specific in Dutch. There is a difference between undergarment hemd (onderhemd) and normal hemd (overhemd, which is specifically a dress shirt). But in English, shirts is a catch-all term for a broad variety of upper-body garments and undergarments (Wiki). So this is not a correct translation, because the definition of hemden is not as broad a definition in Dutch as shirts is in English.

To make it more confusing, the word hemd is actually mostly used in this form: "De eerste 5 tops zijn allemaal lossige hemdjes. Ik vind dit vaak erg leuk staan en bovendien is het lekker luchtig met warm weer!" As this random girls says about this picture:

http://i1358.photobucket.com/albums/q765/Gloriouslotte/kledingg_zps58ec7b0f.png

This means she wears these as normal top, not as undergarment, and just the way I and everyone I meet interprets hemdjes. These are not undergarments nor dress shirts... So the term hemden is getting more and more broad in definitions recently, but not in such a way you can call them shirts. Because we don't call these in the picture 'hemden' but 'hemdjes'. Where 'hemden' is oldfashioned and could mean undergarment top or dress shirt, 'hemdjes' means regular top without sleeves. This is very commonly used in this generation.

Conclusion: don't use the word hemd in this basic course, it's too ambiguous. Only in context you can know which hemd it is (overhemd or onderhemd or 'hemdje'). In Dutch these garments all have specific names, we don't have an equivalent of the broad shirts yet, although I think we are moving towards embracing the English broad definition. In which case your best bet is shirts = shirts ;) What a puzzle.

To illustrate the problem: I answered this question with 'you wear tops'. (I'm Dutch)

1
Reply2 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/Lavinae
Lavinae
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Hi!

Thanks for your thoughts. :)
We are aware of the ambiguity and will fix this issue in due time.

2
Reply2 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/CraigHealey1

Just for clarity, when you say "English" above, you are specifically referring to American English. In British English, a shirt always refers to an overgarment (overhemd in your description). A dress shirt in British English refers to a very formal shirt normally worn with a dinner suit. An onderhemd has various names: tee, t-shirt, vest, undershirt etc.

2
Reply2 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/AClark20

Why was "Je draagt hemden" incorrect?

1
Reply2 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/MentalPinball
MentalPinball
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If it's a listening exercise, you must type exactly what the voice says.

Jij and je are different in terms of emphasis and pronunciation.

jij: emphatic pronoun, the ij sounds close to 'ay' in the English word May.

je: unstressed, 'regular' form. The e is pronounced with a schwa, which is the sound of the e in the English word differ.

Hope this helps.

0
Reply11 months ago

https://www.duolingo.com/nSSn
nSSn
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I'm confused. If is “you wear shirts”, why is “draagt” instead of “draag”? In my head, from what I learned so far, “draagt” translates “wears” and “draag” “wear”. Am I wrong? It seems to be like this with other verves at least.

0
Reply3 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/johaquila
johaquila
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It's more complicated. Here is what the English translations would have been in Shakespeare's time and in the King James Bible:

  • Ik draag hemden. - I wear shirts.
  • Jij draagt hemden. - Thou wearest shirts.
  • Hij draagt hemden. - He weareth shirts.
  • Wij dragen hemden. - We wear shirts.
  • Julllie dragen hemden. - You wear shirts
  • Zij dragen hemden. - They wear shirts.

As you can see, the reason why you are having trouble is that in English, we no longer use the original second person singular. After centuries of people politely addressing a single person in the plural, it has been lost completely and replaced by the second person singular.

If this were all, then it would be very simple: Dutch has -en for the plural and -t where English used to have -st or -th. But for some reason Dutch has lost -t in the second person when the sentence is inverted as in a question: Draag jij hemden?

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Reply23 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/nSSn
nSSn
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Oh wow, thanks!! I'm also learning English so this is super helpful for that also. :D

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Reply3 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/jackie.eng

Cool! Thanks for sharing.

0
Reply3 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/luizalazzaretti

Hey guys, I learned in Belgium that you could use "je" as well as "jij". is it wrong?

0
Reply6 months ago

https://www.duolingo.com/El2theK
El2theK
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It's not, unless it is a listening exercise due to the difference in pronunciation.

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Reply6 months ago