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  5. "Een vrouw en een jongen"

"Een vrouw en een jongen"

Translation:A woman and a boy

July 17, 2014

48 Comments
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https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Timothylawson

Wow, this is really similar to German.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/MarcoBianca

It sounds like German but it is written other way


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/carloscids

Agreed.. but is it as complicated as german? I wonder if i should've started learning dutch first and then german


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/frankk1m

For an English speaker, Dutch is significantly easier, since it has less inflection (nouns and pronouns changing form for grammatical purposes) and one fewer gender (Dutch has common and neuter; German has masculine, feminine, and neuter).

A great example would be the word "een," which corresponds to German "ein" (m. and n.) and "eine" (f.). The German words can decline (change according to grammatical role) into numerous forms like "einem", "einer", "eines", while Dutch, like English, has lost this feature, except in pronouns. German adjectives also change in a similar manner, while Dutch does this in a way that is much easier for those of us with a background in more analytic (less inflectional) languages like English.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/haleycathy

Are 'en' and 'een' pronounced the same?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/iampatriciag

'en' should be like the sound in 'Ben' while 'een' should sound like the second half of 'hidden' or 'fallen' - the vowel has no distinct shape in your mouth or with your lips, like 'uh...'


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/byes11

Those have the same sound.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/frankk1m

(Native speakers please halp.) Can't "een" and "en" be pronounced the same in certain contexts? "Ik heb een hond." and "brood en boter" -- in these unstressed contexts, in natural speech, that is, are they pronounced differently?

Otherwise, "een" is pronounced like the English indefinite article "an", to my understanding, unless it is stressed as "één", where it becomes more like Ayn. A stressed "en" would be like the "en" in Ben, but I was under the impression that in unstressed locations, it would be reduced to a schwa. Please correct me if I am wrong, bedankt.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/StefvanSchie

No, 'een' and 'en' are always pronounced differently. I found this site, while searching for words with matching sounds: http://www.heardutchhere.net/DutchPronunciation.html#voicelessE. The 'ee' in 'een' is pronounced like the E-voiceless (schwa) and 'en' is pronounced like the E-Short. That's always the case. When comparing 'één' with 'en', the 'éé' is pronounced like the E-long and the 'e' is pronounced like the E-short. For me as a native Dutch speaker I can tell the difference between 'één' en 'en', but I can see that the pronunciation of the words are quite similar for others and may be hard to differentiate. I'd suggest having a look at that website. It offers a variety of Dutch words and their pronunciation, which can help you hear the difference better.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/frankk1m

They are pronounced differently in isolation for sure, but that is careful speech, which differs from natural, connected speech. If you look at the examples of "en" in various phrases here: http://forvo.com/search/en/nl/ , you can hear the clear schwa -- just what one would expect from vowel-reduction rules in Dutch phonology.

Perhaps these two words are perceived as sounding different because the roles they each play are so drastically distinct as to make confusion between the two almost impossible for someone with knowledge of the language, rendering perceptual disambiguation a very clear and effortless process.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/P_Azul

Oh, quite a find! There is indeed a rare second use for "en" with a different pronunciation: When it's part of an expression borrowed from French, Dutch will indeed use the French pronunciation of "en". In such a case it indeed has a schwa.

But now check the link to the word itself: < https://forvo.com/word/en/#nl >.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/P_Azul

No, "een" and "en" can not be pronounced the same under certain circumstances; the "en" never gets a schwa. However, after some syllables, the "en" is much lighter, closer to a schwa, than it is otherwise. For example, if the previous syllable had a schwa itself, the "e" in "en" would not be very pronounced. It never gets to Rock 'n Roll, or Stop-n-Go, but it would probably seem more like a schwa than suggested by the spelling.

Not quite right with the spelling of "een". It's pronounced like the last three letters of "lane" when it means "one", rather than "an". But only when "one" and "an" would both fit, "one" gets the accents: "één".


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/maxxon15

Can't seem to pronounce vrouw correctly... Is it "khaw" or "haw"?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/prepra

I think of it as sounding like "Frau" (woman in German). It helps me to pronounce the Dutch letter 'V' as an English 'F'.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Susande

There are some people who pronounce a v almost as an f, but the v should be pronounced softer, basically both the v and the f are the same in Dutch and English. The v like in English veer, the f like in English fear.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Jazzybard

People keep saying "softer" and I have no idea what that means. to me English "f" seems "softer" and "fluffier" than "v". Are people saying the "v" is said using vibrating vocal chords as in English? Because in the recording it doesn't sound that way to me. Please use non-subjective adjectives!


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/frankk1m

It depends on the dialect/accent... In certain regions, Frisia and northern areas, I believe, the /v/ and /f/ sounds are merged into the latter. Other areas pronounce a clear [v], like the English sound, pronouncing as a labiodental approximant, where the mouth is in the [v] position while moving as if articulating a [w].


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/MentalPinball

Yes, v is a voiced consonant (there's vibration of the vocal folds), while f is voiceless (no vibration).


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Susande

I would say almost the same as English bow, but replace the b by vr.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Bleseth

Only (!) if you mean the verb, as in "take a bow"!

So not as in "bow and arrow".


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Mimir-nl

I'm sorry dear, but it doesn't sound like that at all...


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Urthb

I don't always trust the pronunciations on here as they can be off sometimes. Forvo is a good place to hear actual speakers say the words. I presume since Dutch isn't fully stable on here there will be some issues with the pronunciations.

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