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"Ik woon in Nederland."

Translation:I live in the Netherlands.

4 years ago

34 Comments


https://www.duolingo.com/StrapsOption
StrapsOption
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I'm actually glad that Holland isn't accepted. People should know what the country is really called.

4 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/hyacinth3704

Agreed. I didn't know what the distinction was until I started learning Dutch. What put it in perspective for me is thinking, what if the entire rest of the world called all Canadians "Ontarians", and figured there was no difference or nothing wrong with that. Western Canadians would be mighty annoyed, and I bet Atlantic and northern ones too, to say nothing of Quebec.

1 year ago

https://www.duolingo.com/ZelvaCZ
ZelvaCZ
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Why is the article 'the' needed there?

4 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/tu.8zPhLD72zzoZN
tu.8zPhLD72zzoZN
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It does help represent that this plural noun represents one country. We also say "the United States of America", "the Philippines" and we used to say the U.S.S.R. I cannot think of a plural used for the name of a country that is not preceded by "the".

3 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/CJ.Dennis
CJ.Dennis
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Here is a good article that goes into more detail about when to use "the" as part of a country's name: http://www.grammar-quizzes.com/article4c.html

1 year ago

https://www.duolingo.com/Lenkvist
Lenkvist
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It's short for Kingdom of the Netherlands.

4 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/johaquila
johaquila
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I don't think so. Netherlands means lowlands and was formed in the same way. We say "in the Netherlands" for the same reason we say "in the lowlands". It's just how nouns ending in -lands are treated.

And this is of course why it's Kingdom of the Netherlands, not 'Kingdom of Netherlands'.

4 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/Virmyth
Virmyth
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I'd say is a collective noun.

2 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/ZelvaCZ
ZelvaCZ
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Thank you :)

4 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/Deleinee
Deleinee
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Yeah, as a native English speaker, I can say that it will usually be heard with "the" precedeing Nederlands, however, I would argue that it's not required. Likewise, I suspect there are English speaking Canadians that would also argue the same point.

English speaking Canadians frequently drop "the" where Americans employ it. Hospital is an example where Canadians don't use "the" and Americans do. However, Americans drop "the" before "jail".

Americans might say "I live in Ohio" (no "the"), but "I live in THE Netherlands". I would argue both phrases with or without the "the" are correct and acceptable with the difference being what one native English speaker is accustomed to hearing versus grammatical correctness.

3 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/DaveYoung1
DaveYoung1
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Anyone know why in Dutch it is just "Nederland" but in English it is "The Netherlands"? Why is it plural in English but not Dutch? Thank you. Bedankt.

2 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/johaquila
johaquila
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The historical name comes from "the nether [opposite of upper] lands". Many lands, not just one, because it was literally a collection of many little countries.

Nowadays these nether lands are divided mostly into the main constituent country of the Kingdom of the Netherlands (the other constituent countries being in the Caribbean and hence not actually part of the nether lands) and the Kingdom of Belgium. (The remainder is Luxembourg and some parts of France.) The nether lands in this old sense are nowadays referred to in English as the Low Countries and in Dutch using the plural as "Nederlanden".

The European constituent country of the Kingdom of the Netherlands (Koninkrijk der Nederlanden) is called "Nederland" (singular) in Dutch and "The Netherlands" (plural) in English. The Dutch term makes sense because the singular is technically more correct for a single country, and it permits short and crisp distinctions between the three concepts Low Countries, Kingdom of the Netherlands and the country in which the two intersect. English has been slower to adapt to todays political realities - probably in part because they are not so well known to English speakers, in part because the etymology has become less transparent in English, in part because in English it is natural to treat "the Netherlands" as a singular even though it is plural in form, and in part because English-speaking historical scholars needing to talk about the Low Countries can do so by modernising nether to low. (In Dutch this doesn't work. The closest option would be to use neer instead of neder, but neder is well established as the part of geographical names translating to lower in English, and neer isn't used in this way.)

2 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/YvonneJanssen

Cause Nederland is a country in "het Koningkrijk der Nederlanden" or in english "The Kingdom of the Netherlands". The Netherlands consists of a couple of countries. In short:

So Aruba, Curacao and Sint Maarten are countries within the Kingdom of the Netherlands, And Bonaire, Sint Eustatius and Saba are Provinces within the country Nederland

2 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/ChristianClaus
1 year ago

https://www.duolingo.com/Tzetzes

"I live in Holland" is also fine English (pars pro toto).

4 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/PaulineStinson
PaulineStinson
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You're right, Tzetzes. If you've ever watched a soccer game, you must have noticed they shout "Holland, Holland, Holland"

3 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/SandraPLD

I agree. Isn't it ok to say 'Holland'?

4 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/johaquila
johaquila
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Sort of. Holland accounts for only 13% of the area of the Netherlands and 38% of the population. But it contains the three biggest cities and has come to represent the entire country. Surprisingly few Dutch people are offended if you call them Hollanders, but it does happen.

It's like referring to the UK as England, but in a more homogeneous cultural context. (I.e. without the cultural baggage of 'nations' - a word that is used in a non-standard way in the UK context).

4 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/GaetanoBre2

Not in English

2 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/olivierATW

Visual explaination: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eE_IUPInEuc And this is where i was reminded there was a common border between France and the Netherlands (actually between the French Republic and the Kingdom of the Netherlands)

2 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/Virmyth
Virmyth
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The first time I heard of the Netherlands, the first thing I remembered was the Netherworld of Mortal Kombat. Ah, those childhood days...

2 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/GaetanoBre2

I just want to say that in English, as in many other languages, "Holland" refers to "The Netherlands" with a 1:1 correspondence, and not to the union of the two regio north and south holland (this is true in fact only in The Netherlands and in Dutch). Therefore the answer "I live in Holland" should definitively be accepted and not accepting it is a big mistake.

2 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/YvonneJanssen

Alot of dutch people refer to the UK as england in every day life (and yes they don't mean only the england part of the country when they say that), however I think in a language course england should not be accepeted as a valid translation of the united kingdom cause its simply not the same. There is a perfectly fine translation, the netherlands, so why not just use that.

And yes I am dutch and I do know alot of people who do feel offended by it.

2 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/johaquila
johaquila
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In every field there are some terms which are used with more precision than elsewhere, and which you have to learn and use for that particular field. When writing international treaties or studying Dutch, Holland vs. the Netherlands is one of them. But of course nobody is forced to learn Dutch. For people who can't even be bothered to learn the other English dictionary definition of Holland it's likely too hard anyway...

2 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/Ldrpc
Ldrpc
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LOL this is so funny lmao!!!! WHO DID THIS>?!?!?!?!?!? DAB IM PICKLE RIIIIICCKKKKKKKK #LogangForLife

7 months ago

https://www.duolingo.com/jimghunter

Why isn't "I live in Holland" acceptable.

3 months ago

https://www.duolingo.com/johaquila
johaquila
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In a context of talking about the Netherlands, it's an ambiguous term. "Holland" is not just a de facto synonym for "the Netherlands"; in its most precise use, it's a region within the Netherlands consisting of two provinces (North Holland and South Holland) that makes up roughly a sixth of the area of the Netherlands and roughly a third of the population. There is no other word in English to talk about this region of the Netherlands than "Holland". This is why in formal English texts such as international contracts, "Holland" is never used as a synonym for "the Netherlands", and it is also why people talking English in the Netherlands avoid that use when it is not obvious what is meant.

3 months ago

https://www.duolingo.com/PorSiboney

I don't think it's wrong to say "I live in Holland."

3 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/johaquila
johaquila
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For seven out of ten people living in the UK it's natural to say they are from England because they actually are. But that doesn't make it correct that most people in Germany refer to Scottish and Welsh people as English.

I guess your sentence is perfectly natural to say when you actually do live in Holland, as two fifths of the population of the Netherlands do. For the others, it's borderline, as there seems to be less cultural difference and political friction between Holland and the rest of the country than between England and the rest of the UK.

3 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/PaulineStinson
PaulineStinson
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I do agree with Wolfsheim though, the use of Holland in other languages often is the regular translation for The Netherlands. I guess even more so for the language (e.g. in Spanish and Italian, holandés and olandese). Whether this pars pro toto use is offensive to some Dutchmen, is a different matter than the question if the translation is correct.

By the way, the Dutch themselves say it "wrong" all the time. In our own language, vegetables and fruit will often have a label saying the origin is Holland, even when it was grown in provinces other than Noord-Holland or Zuid-Holland. To say "Hollandse aarbeien" is far more common in Dutch than "Nederlandse aardbeien" (see a map of proud strawberry growers here: http://www.hollandseaardbeien.nl/trotse-telers/). When a national sports team plays, we cheer "Holland, Holland", even the otherwise offended Dutchmen. YvonneJanssen, what would you say?

I would like to propose that while it's good to be aware of the matter and sensitivities surrounding it, let's not be too rigid about it and above all, let's not fight over it.. most Dutch people will be pleasantly surprised if you let them know it's somewhat confusing to you.

2 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/YvonneJanssen

well for me personally I would rather say it's more annoying me then offending me.

yes I agree on that alot of dutch people accept the netherlands being translated to holland because we know alot of people wouldn't even know what country they are talking about otherwise. and yes there is the hup holland hup thing in sports, allthough there is also the nederland o nederland song. and yes there are more things inside the netherlands like that, there is for example a famous tv quiz with questions about the netherlands called: ik hou van holland. so yes I am aware that even dutch people do mix it up a bit. and as long as people don't say it because they think that the rest of the netherlands is irrelevant I don't feel offended.

besides from that personally wouldn't use holland much while talking to other people here in the netherlands. I would indeed say nederlandse aardbeien rather then hollandse aardbeien, and if I have to identify myself I would identify myself as a nederlander not as a hollander. I do know that this is an personal opinion, but I also know that alot of people agree with me on this (and most likely alot of people don't agree with me aswell). it kinda makes me sad that some country's don't even have a correct name for my country. Once asked my danish boyfriend how he would like it if we started calling danish people Sjællanders, he deffinatly didn't agree on that.

I would however still stick to my point that holland isn't a correct translation of the netherlands. If I learn a new language I want to learn it correctly. like I said before england is not a correct translation of the UK, same as when I learn american english and they ask me to translate: the USA, I think america wouldn't be a correct answer either.

2 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/PaulineStinson
PaulineStinson
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I agree with you Yvonne, and I would normally say Nederlander and Nederland instead of Hollander or Holland. I just think the discussion is getting unnecessarily harsh. And also, I just wanted to point out that we Dutchmen use it at times, too. After all, our national delicacy (herring) isn't Nederlandse nieuwe, but Hollandse nieuwe ;)

2 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/johaquila
johaquila
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Applying the word "Dutchman" to an individual probably has more potential to offend half the population of the Netherlands than calling them a "Hollander".

That said, it's all a matter of context. (For both words, actually.) When translating poetry or colloquial speech in a novel, most of the time I would translate "Nederland" as "Holland" based on various considerations including the context of the work in question. (How colloquial is it? Does it mention specific places/regions inside/outside the two provinces? What were the linguistic practices concerning Holland vs Nederland at the time it was written? Also matters of rhyme and meter etc.) When translating a legal text, I would most certainly go with "the Netherlands" every single time.

With this sentence we have two competing contexts. One is that of a person from the Netherlands saying where they are from. Given the phenomenon that you have pointed out - that even in the Netherlands people don't keep the two words as cleanly apart as English speakers do with England and UK - if this person were living in North or South Holland they would very likely have said "Ik woon in Holland" instead. If you translate this as "I live in Holland", everyone who knows about the distinction and its nuances is likely to think as follows: "Someone from the Netherlands just said 'I live in Holland'. I can't be sure, but more likely than not this person belongs to the minority of Netherlanders who actually do live in North or South Holland." (This lack of precision could theoretically be justified by style, but not in this case. Nederland is still an ever so slightly unwieldy word even in Dutch. Dutch speakers don't systematically avoid it, but occasionally they replace it by the less precise "Holland" nevertheless because it 'sounds better'. For translating we have a choice between the more unwieldy "the Netherlands" and "Holland", which lacks this aspect completely. Neither choice is inherently better in this respect unless you are actively trying to mess with the style of the original sentence rather than trying to translate faithfully.)

The other context is that of a Dutch course. Since language courses are always in part applied geography, and also because it simplifies learning, this is a technical context in which the technical meanings of words are generally preferred. It's much easier to learn that, using technical English definitions, Holland = Holland and Nederland = the Netherlands than to learn that, using colloquial definitions, Holland = something that doesn't exist in English or sometimes Holland, and Nederland = Holland. If you were learning Dutch as a foreign language in school, your teacher would have made clear by now that if you insist on translating both Nederland and Holland as Holland, (s)he can't tell whether you know the difference of meaning in Dutch and therefore can't give you full marks.

Of course for native Dutch speakers learning English it works just the other way round. Though not absolutely required, it's a good idea if they learn to say Holland a bit more often in English than they would in Dutch.

2 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/MentalPinball
MentalPinball
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Hi Pauline,

Even if in Spanish most people (i.e., those who don't know that Holland is just two provinces of the Netherlands) would say 'holandés' to refer both to the language and the nationality (holandés/holandesa), there is a more specific term, neerlandés. I found out about this when I married my partner, since we needed to find a sworn translator (this was back in 2004).

Of course, most native Spanish speakers who aren't interested in the Netherlands or in the Dutch language simply use 'Holanda' to refer to the whole country, and only in rare ocasions will you find someone using the appropriate name, 'los Países Bajos'. I'm basing this on what I've heard from my students and coworkers when I mention I'm learning Dutch, so I hope no one gets offended.

On another note, people from America (the continent) often feel extremely annoyed when hearing that USicans are referred to as 'Americans': Canadians, Mexicans, Cubans, Colombians, Uruguayans, etc., are American as well! It is interesting that in Spanish there is also a specific word to refer to people from the US: estadounidense.

Anyway, I'm not trying to stir things up, read this imagining an extremely friendly tone of voice (that's how you should always read my posts).

Cheers!

6 days ago