"Hij kent haar, hoewel zij hem niet kent."

Translation:He knows her even though she does not know him.

4 years ago

27 Comments


https://www.duolingo.com/hevb19
hevb19
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Sounds like a stalker

3 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/BezSmith

Duolingo is becoming NCIS very slowly

3 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/Jane-Chan20th

I can only imagine what the government and law skill is going to be like

2 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/Limeila
Limeila
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Think of all the celebrities you know even though they've never heard of you

4 months ago

https://www.duolingo.com/alnehsaurus

can someone explain why it is "zij hem niet kent" rather than "zij kent hem niet"? the structure just seems odd to me.

4 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/jjd1123
jjd1123
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Dutch word order has one main rule for (normal) main clauses: The finite (i.e., conjugated) verb always comes in the second position (this is called "V2" or "verb second" word order, which is different from the "SVO" or "subject-verb-object" word order of both normal main and subordinate clauses in English). However, in subordinate clauses the finite verb is always in the last position ("SOV" or "subject-object-verb" order). Here "hoewel" introduces a subordinate clause and thus "kent" has to be at the end. (Note that "second position" or "last position" is not necessarily the same thing as the second or last word.)

4 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/grappig_gebak

Thanks for the explanation. Instead of "hoewel", if we use "maar", would this be correct: "Hij kent haar, maar zij kent hem niet". "Maar" also introduces a subordinate clause here but the word order is subject-verb-object, and I am confused.

2 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/jjd1123
jjd1123
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Your sentence looks fine to me, but "maar" is a coordinating conjunction, not a subordinating one, and introduces a normal main clause.

2 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/jvhx711
jvhx711
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That actually clears up a lot of things, thank you for posting this!

3 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/Neron510880
Neron510880
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Thank you

1 year ago

https://www.duolingo.com/kobajagiprinceza

Comparing this sentence Hij kent haar, hoewel zij hem niet kent. to a similar Hoewel hij oud is, is de man sterk., I need to ask if these are correctly moved around like this:

Howel zij hem niet kent, kent hij haar.

  • the main clause comes after the dependent subclause

  • a conjunction (hoewel) is followed by the subject (zij)

  • the conjuction introduces a dependant subclause (zij hem niet kent)

  • a dependant subclause means the verb is at the end (kent)

  • niet in a dependent subclause is placed before the verb at the end (niet kent)

  • the subclause equals a topical expression (hoewel zij hem niet kent)

  • if the topic (topical expression) is first, subject follows the finite verb (inversion)

  • inversion word order: finite verb + subject + object (kent hij haar)

De man is sterk, hoewel hij oud is.

  • the main clause is first - V2 ("normal") word order (subject+finite verb+object, de man is sterk)

  • conjunction (hoewel) is followed by the subject (hij)

  • conjunction introduces a dependant subclause

  • a dependant subclause means the verb is at the end (is)

3 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/jjd1123
jjd1123
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Your sentences seem correct to me, but there are some subtleties you should note:

  • The crucial point about the conjunctions is whether they're subordinating or not. A subordinating conjunction will introduce a subordinate clause with SOV word order (usually).
  • "Niet" precedes whatever it negates. Normally (but not necessarily and not always) this is the predicate, which can consist of more than just the finite verb. This is also true in main clauses with V2 word order, but then "niet" will precede the non-finite part of the predicate, which is at the end of the clause (if there is no non-finite part "niet" will correspondingly be at the very end of the clause).
  • The topic is always first, by definition. Often this is the subject (in a "standard" sentence), but it doesn't have to be. In general, the subject can take any position in the midfield, i.e. it doesn't have to immediately follow the finite verb (it often does though). This is why the term "inversion" is misleading in my opinion, because it's simply a different word order, not an inversion.
  • In general, a subordinate clause simply occupies one position in a phrase or clause, although they can follow at the very end as well.

(Disclaimer: This is based on German word order, which is in general very similar to Dutch word order. If some of what I wrote is not accurate with regards to Dutch, please feel free to correct me. EDIT: In particular, I am not sure whether the non-finite part of the predicate has to come at the end of the phrase in a Dutch sentence.)

3 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/MentalPinball
MentalPinball
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Yes, all non-finites are placed at the end of the clause.

Nice to find another grammar nerd around! Reading your posts was like reading my own ;)

Cheers!

1 month ago

https://www.duolingo.com/NBL2015
NBL2015
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Very useful, mevrouw. Dank je wel. I must remember these rules. Once one truly knows them, the language structure start making much more sense.

2 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/juliansaun
juliansaun
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Story of my life.

1 year ago

https://www.duolingo.com/Tr33b3ard

Does the position of "niet" and "hem" matter? "Hij kent haar, hoewel zij niet hem kent". If so, what kind of rule can we follow?

3 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/sowrd299
sowrd299
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In a clause like this, "hem" is the object and "niet" is an adverb of "kent." Adverbs almost always go adjacent to their verb. Thus "hem" can not go between "niet" and "kent."

3 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/damnjan
damnjan
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if the sentence was "Even though she does not know him, he knows her", would this be the correct translation: "Hoewel zij hem niet kent, kent hij haar" ?

3 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/jjd1123
jjd1123
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Seems correct to me. (Note: My native language is Standard High German, in which this word order would be correct; and Dutch and Standard High German are quite similar in this regard.)

3 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/ZeroDefect

Can the negation be at the end? Is "Hij kent haar, hoewel zij hem kent niet" also acceptable?

2 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/Jane-Chan20th

Hoewel can totally mean however right?

2 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/Valeriodim8

What's the difference between kennen and weten ?

2 months ago

https://www.duolingo.com/MentalPinball
MentalPinball
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kennen= being acquainted with something, connaƮtre, conocer

weten=having knowledge of something, savoir, saber.

1 month ago

https://www.duolingo.com/apatrid.

can't i translate this as "though he knows her, she knows him not"? i think that is more accurate construct in English and fits the original term better.

3 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/jjd1123
jjd1123
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In the Dutch sentence, "Hij kent haar" ("He knows her") is the main clause, while "hoewel zij hem niet kent" ("although she doesn't know him") is a subordinate clause. You essentially switched that around, so I personally don't think that your translation is accurate or saying the same thing. Furthermore, I think your "she knows him not" construction would sound quite archaic in English (I'm not a native speaker though, so this could be an exception I'm not aware of).

3 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/MokeiAkita

I'd agree that "she knows him not" is archaic, but I don't think it is incorrect. When I was in high school, I saw a bully start to punch another student. The victim blurted out, "Hurt me not!" and that just sounded so weird that it defused the situation. It seemed to confuse the would-be bully, who then just walked away.

2 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/apatrid.

Thanks for the explanation, it just sounded like better fitting, I did not give it any analytical thought, you're probably right, I wouldn't really know for sure. The way you explained it sounds as "while" or "however" might be more common than "although" in American English, or at least such sentence sounds more American: "He knows her, however she doesn't know him." Anyways, thanks again for the explanation.

3 years ago
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