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  5. "Lei guadagna più di me."

"Lei guadagna più di me."

Translation:She earns more than me.

July 20, 2014

83 Comments


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/mgbsaus

"than I" is correct. "than me" is a common mistake.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Ketutsf

Both "more than me" and "more than I" are correct. The reason is that "than" can be either a conjunction or a preposition. The final verb "earn" is only implied when you choose to use "than" as a conjunction.

Conjunction: "She earns more than I (earn)." Here we are using "than" as a subordinating conjuction.

Prepostion: "She earns more than me." Here we are using "than" as a preposition. (In this case, the phrase cannot be completed with "earn.")

Here is an authoritative source:

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/than

Merriam uses "older than I" and "older than me" to exemplify these two correct uses of "than."

[I noticed today (Nov. 23, 2015) that the content of the Merriam page linked above, has changed since I linked to it.]


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/ZuMako8_Momo

Interesting... Non sapevo


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/silen03

Many thanks for the explanation!


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/scimmia0

I am confused by this. I don't think it can be a preposition in this sentence unless I am something that can be earned. She earns more than 500 pounds. Fine. She earns more than me. (Two of me perhaps?) Dubious.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/nerevarine1138

Your confusion is absolutely justified, because this is a misapplication of the stated rule. The debate over this is mind-boggling to me, since this is a commonly understood error in most English-speaking countries. We all know that conversational patterns are changing, but I've never encountered such pointless resistance over a really basic grammatical rule in English.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Randonneur3

Methinks it a good idea to add the implied verb to the 'I'


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Nonna602151

BUT Duo won't accept "I"!


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/TheFinkie

It does now :)


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Momaba1

No it does not. I just answered "more than I" and it still gets flagged as incorrect.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/nerevarine1138

Based on what Merriam says, you can see that this is a case where "me" is actually grammatically incorrect. In the case of, "He is older than me," the word "older" can function as an adjective, modifying "me". Similarly, the Shakespearean examples given involve adjectives that can modify that object.

In this case, "more" only functions as an adverb. It only modifies "earns". This means that regardless of whether we actually include the verb "earn" at the end of the sentence, we still have to use "I", because the verb is implied. We're not comparing qualities of these people, but rather qualities of the action they are performing.

A good example: He plays tennis better than I. He is a better player than me.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Ketutsf

Consider the sentence, "She is more fun than me." Its meaning and structure are entirely parallel to that of, "She is older than me." The only difference is that we construct the comparative of "fun" using the adverb "more." Similarly, "She earns more than me" compares earning power using the adverb "more." You claim that this creates a sentence in which an elided verb is implied, but I'm not sure why. Consider these sentences:

  • She earns more for me.
  • She gives more to me.
  • She takes more from me.

Apparently, the construction "she [verb] more" can be followed by "[preposition] me" and no trailing verb need be implied.

Here are a couple relevant literary examples:

No man had ever more discernment than him,
in finding out the ridiculous.
--Samuel Johnson

And, though by Heaven’s severe Decree
She suffers hourly more than me.
--Jonathan Swift

Johnson could have written, "No man ever earned more money than her." Similarly, Swift would have been okay with, "She earns hourly more than me." One final point, if you hadn't heard Swift's last word clearly, you might reply, "She earns hourly more than whom?" And most grammarians would agree with you: "whom" is more natural here than "who." This indicates that we are willing to treat "than" as a preposition, even in these adjective-free sentences. It is only when we insist on tacking on the putatively elided verb that this feels problematic.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/nerevarine1138

Yes, if you change the preposition (and the entire meaning of the sentence in the process), then you can use "me" in some cases. But that's not this sentence.

And using poetry as an example is not helpful here, especially when that poetry is in a strict meter and rhyme scheme. Poets regularly break grammatical rules in an effort to fit with the style they're working in. It's like using Kanye to teach formal sentence structure.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/TolongBerhenti

You seem to have missed the point here. Ignore the bit about poetry if you will. Now ask yourself, is the clearly correct "She earns more for me" really different in some grammatically compelling way from "She earns more than me"?

And don't forget the bit about the choice of "who" or "whom." You ignored that too.

A: "She earns more."
B: "More than whom?
A: "More than Marcelo."
B: "Yes. She earns more than him."

Are you, perhaps, just a bit too wedded to your position?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/nerevarine1138

Replying in-line because DL limits reply threads:

"She earns more for me," is a radically different sentence, because now "me" has become an indirect object of the verb "earn". Not even remotely comparable. And yes, your dialogue is grammatically incorrect, even if someone would say it in everyday speech.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Momaba1

Nope. That second sentence is still incorrect. You would never say "he is a better player than me is/am" so it needs to be "I"....


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/nerevarine1138

Good luck selling that. There's a very strong commitment to being grammatically incorrect in this one particular way...


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/gudiasoliveira

Shouldn't "Lei" be accepted as you. Because "Lei" can also means you (formal).


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/nayrad

We haven't got there yet.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/LindseyRuth

Guadagnare means to earn as well as to win though doesn't it ? So wouldn't, "She wins more than me." be accepted ?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/silen03

Because in this sentence "guadagnare" means only "be paid for work done".


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/MauricioMongelos

Why "she gains more than me" in incorrect?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/jamesjiao

Gain is usually followed by an object, so your sentence feels incomplete and unnatural.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/rilianxi

It's not. Report it.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/ZuMako8_Momo

Because "me" is the wrong pronoun, although everyone says "me." You would not say "Me like cats;" it's "I like cats." Similarly, here it is "She earns/makes/gains more than I [gain/make/earn]."


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/MostafaHalabi

Where's the equality?!


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/JamesLessels

lei non lavora per il BBC


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Jae633849

E non sei meno uomo per questo.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/brownin329

she does? excellent


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Randonneur3

'She earns more than I do', though not the translation, appeals to my ear.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/akilleyca.48

Why isn't you accepted here?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/MichaelWat541241

Equal pay for equal work!!!


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Francine236534

Can anyone tell me why when I put in the accent on piu, DL says another way to say it is piu without the accent. If I don't put the accent in piu, DL says "pay attention to the accent." This is so confusing.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Muttley71

You must have misread.
Più can only be written with the accent on the 'u'.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Francine236534

No, really. I put the accent on the u and then DL says you can write it another way and they show it without the accent on the u. And if I don't put it they tell me to pay attention to the accent. ??? They don't mark it wrong though so I won't worry too much.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Muttley71

If you put the accent on più there is no way that Duolingo marked it as incorrect.
In the old times, when computers only supported the old ASCII 8 and no ù existed on the keyboard, you could write piu', but I really doubt that Duo is suggesting that now.
Could it be that you are confusing più with po' ?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/dvanwey

Bad English! "She earns more than I [earn]" is much better. You need a subject pronoun, not an object.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Ketutsf

Since "than" can be either a conjunction or a preposition, both "more than me" and "more than I" are correct. The final verb "earn" is only implied when you choose to use "than" as a conjunction.

Conjunction: "She earns more than I (earn)." Here we are using "than" as a subordinating conjuction.

Prepostion: "She earns more than me." Here we are using "than" as a preposition. (In this case, the phrase cannot be completed with "earn.")

Here is an authoritative source:

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/than

Merriam uses "older than I" and "older than me" to exemplify these two correct uses of "than."

[I noticed today (Nov. 23, 2015) that the content of the Merriam page linked above, has changed since I linked to it.]


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/nerevarine1138

I am still at a complete loss as to this thread and the level of resistance to a basic point of grammar. It was pointed out below, but it bears pointing out again:

Using "than me" would be appropriate if this sentence, like the example sentences on the MW site, used an adjective. It does not. It is a comparison centered around a verb.

So yes, "He is richer than me," is correct. "He earns more money than me," is 100%, unequivocally incorrect English grammar, even though it is a common colloquialism. You can't use "than" as a preposition if it's being followed by an implied verb. It's simply not correct English, and this is a language-learning site.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/TolongBerhenti

You are at a complete loss because people are not bowing to your authority? You say, "It was pointed out below" as if Strunk and White had weighed in, but it was just you asserting a rule that you made up! Moreover, your reasoning does not even make sense. An unspoken verb is no more implied in one case than in the other:

  • He is richer than I (am). [Note the implied "am."]
  • He is richer than me. [No following verb implied or needed.]
  • She earns more than I (do).
  • She earns more than me. [Again, no following verb implied or needed.]

These are all common and correct despite your arbitrary, unsupported contention that comparisons involving verbs other than "to be" must be treated differently. Finally, "It was pointed out below, but it bears pointing out again" that your assertions were already refuted below in ways that you did not seem to understand.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/JaneMonserud

I think this issue has been beaten to a pulp. You either disagree or disagree but at this time it's probably best to all "Agree to disagree" because it's starting to sound a bit harsh. Buon Natale to everyone on Duolingo!


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/nerevarine1138

It's nothing to do with my authority: the first example is a comparison of adjectives, the second is modifying a verb. Totally different sentences. I promise that you will not find a single English teacher who would think that this is a grammatically correct English sentence, even though they would all acknowledge that it would be acceptable in conversation.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/TolongBerhenti

Your promise does not hold up to a quick Google search. In particular, Ken Wilson (author of The Columbia Guide to Standard American English) seems to disagree with you:

Some commentators believe that the conjunction is currently more frequent than the preposition, but both are unquestionably Standard.

Now I will heed Jane's advice and bow out. You may have the last word if you like. Buon Natale a tutti.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/MadeSintia

It looks like you are just wrong on this one. I can't find a single authoritative source that agrees with you. From Grammar Girl to Arnold Zwicky, everyone seems to say that the prepositional form "than me" is standard and correct. For example:

Than can work as a conjunction or a preposition, meaning that than I/he/she/they and than me/him/her/them are both correct in most situations. The latter version is attested from the 16th century to the present day, by good writers in formal and informal settings. The belief that it is unacceptable appears to be a holdover from Latin-based grammars of English. -- Motivated Grammar


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/nerevarine1138

That link hardly says that "than me" would be correct in this sentence. In fact, the only grammarian it cites on a similar sentence indicates that it is incorrect to say, "He laughed much louder than me." And the only criticism offered of that grammarian is that the author doesn't understand his reasoning.

The most that article establishes is that some people think that there is a middle ground in some case, but no one can quite articulate where that middle ground is. In this sentence, there is a clearly implied, "...than I earn." Without the verb, it makes no sense, because the modifying "more" can only apply to a verb in this context, not to a person.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/jamesjiao

Could you guys take your conversation to your profile page please? It's clogging up the comment section, which is supposed to help people learn the Italian sentence.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/MadeSintia

You seem to be willfully misreading the article. It is very critical of that grammarian (Lowth) for very explicit reasons. He even enlists Joseph Priestly to rebut his ideas and concludes

Despite the irrelevance of his argument, Lowth’s opinion has stuck through to the present day, reinvigorated by new voices repeating the same old line, unwilling to concede something’s right just because it’s never been wrong . . . So in the end, we’re left with this. Than I and than me are both correct, in most cases.

Notice that yours is among the voices disparagingly referred to above as being unwilling to admit the correctness of prepositional uses of "than."

Furthermore, the author explicitly endorses the sentence "I love you more than him" as preferable (despite its ambiguity) to "I love you more than he." That sentence is obviously grammatically parallel to the topic sentence of this page. You, presumably, would claim that it is incorrect because "than he loves you" is implied. But modern grammarians simply disagree with you.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/rilianxi

Not true, in english we use the object pronouns when the verb is unstated. similar to french.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/DeanG6

I'm pretty sure "She earns more than I" is the proper way to say it in English.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/pgl3

I agree, and would certainly use 'than I' in written English. But most people, in spoken English, would use 'than me'. It could cause ambiguity if you said 'He jumps higher than me'.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Judi362744

Yes. The "than me" used so often these days really bothers me.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/ZuMako8_Momo

It is interesting how Italian uses the object pronoun here too, whereas in Portuguese the subject pronoun is used: «Ela ganha mais que eu.». I believe Spanish would do the same, although I believe that French would also use the object pronoun in this case. Have French and Italian slipped into using the pronouns in the wrong case like everyday English speakers?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/davpaez

Indeed, in spanish we would use the subject pronoun: 'Ella gana más que yo'


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Eluzie

Thank you for correcting this error. It drives me crazy - a short trip, perhaps. Nevertheless...


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Domobomb

the wage gap is a myth


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/David_AAA

....more than me, is incorrect, but usually say nowadays. Correct British English is ......more than I. a verb "do", "earn" is understood.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/mgbsaus

I agree the italian is correct. I am saying that the English is incorrect. "She earns more than me" is bad grammar. We should be using "di me" in Italian and "than I" in English.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/silen03

I don't know if you are answering to my comment. Anyway I wrote it to respond to ones who asked if Italian sentence is right.

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