"Neptunus hurls spears under the waves."

Translation:Neptunus sub undas hastas contorquet.

April 27, 2020

42 Comments
This discussion is locked.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Tim694134

'Neptunus hastas sub undas contorquet' should be accepted. Reported.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/ci4ic4
  • 2853

Still comes as an error. I vaguely remember a discussion whereby the Latin course creators said they would not bother to flag all possible correct word orders.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/aslightrain

That's understandable, I guess; but what has happened here is that they did not "bother" to include what is arguably the preferred word order - 'neptunus hastas sub undas contorquet.' Again, I can understand if they don't want to include things that are grammatically correct but almost never used, such as, e.g., "sub undas contorquet hastas neptunus"


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/tsnix

Weirdly, it does accept “Sub undas Neptunus hastas contorquet”. So, this is not a case of solely sticking to one word order.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Brig369865

I actually think this would be the better order.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/jorken1

I wrote and reported the same thing. Still not fixed 11 months later.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Zeno_of_citium

Still doesn't accept this


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/mptack

Still marked incorrect as of 10 Aug 2021, reported.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/AZIV2

Still. Same.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/BertNijkamp

Why not 'sub undis'? Since 'sub' requires the ablative. It currently marks it as correct but with a typo, saying it should be 'undas'.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Giuliana014

I wrote "sub undis" (sub + ablative) too and it was marked wrong.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Johan807389

You mean that he is under the waves and that is where he throws spears around too?

I guess that sounds possible too? In the current answer (accusative) he is like on the shore or something.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Pedro177810

Neptune, formerly the Roman god of freshwater and springs, became later on, by association with the Greek god Poseidon, the god of the sea. He is the brother of Jupiter and Pluto. Each brother presides over the realm of: heaven + earthly world (Iuppiter), underworld (Pluto, or Dis Pater), and sea (Neptunus). Therefore, Neptunus spends most of his time underwater. In this sentence, he is not necessarily throwing spears from above into the water. The reason why the accusative is required is different -- although Duolingo never explains why.

At first, I also thought the correct answer might be 'sub undis' (ablative), and did wrong. It is 'sub undas' (accusative), because the sentence indicates movement, it uses a verb of motion.

For example: --Fēlēs sub arbore dormit (=the cat sleeps under the tree) – ablative

--Fēlēs sub arborem currit (=the cat runs under the tree) – accusative with verbs of motion. That's the case of "hurl", 'contorquere'

https://en.wikiversity.org/wiki/Latin/Prepositions#:~:text=Prepositions%20in%20Latin%20must%20be,the%20accusative%20or%20the%20ablative.&text=%E2%80%9CIn%E2%80%9D%20with%20the%20accusative%20means,can%20also%20take%20both%20cases.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/teaselcardere

"Neptunus hastas sub undas contorquet." Please DO tell us what's wrong with this answer. We are informed that word order is usually flexible. Is it not so on this occasion? In which case, we should perhaps be told.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Akrchhff

Also got error for Neptunus sub undas hastas contorquet. Makes no sense, but it's not the first error I've had simply based on word order.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Akrchhff

It all boils down to the intent of the writer. It's not a question of right or wrong, just intent. It's tricky here when we have to guess intent. I went with undis originally .


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Pedro177810

I also thought it might be 'undis' (ablative), but the correct answer is actually the accusative, because the sentence indicates movement.

For instance: --Fēlēs sub arbore dormit (=the cat sleeps under the tree) – ablative

--Fēlēs sub arborem currit (=the cat runs under the tree) – accusative with verbs of motion. That's the case of "hurl", 'contorquere'

https://en.wikiversity.org/wiki/Latin/Prepositions#:~:text=Prepositions%20in%20Latin%20must%20be,the%20accusative%20or%20the%20ablative.&text=%E2%80%9CIn%E2%80%9D%20with%20the%20accusative%20means,can%20also%20take%20both%20cases.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/reyddP

Still strange that the alternative word order is not accepted as correct


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/DrProxy

Any reason for the alternatw word order not being accepted


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Akrchhff

Motion takes accusative (undas) and location takes the ablative. The sentence in question indicates the Neptune hurls the spear from above to under while ablative would indicate his location when he hurled the spear.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/BertNijkamp

The sentence does not indicate hurling the spear from above to below the waves. To me, it sounds like the activity is happening under the waves, hence my suggestion about the usage of ablative.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/NgonneEtiondeh

The word order is not rigid in Latin. "hastas sub undas" is good as "sub undas hastas"


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Linda916150

That's what I put as well. Perhaps place comes before object?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/els976518

My translation is correct too because the order is not important in Latincorrect


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/AJJAYY

Neptune is the sea god. So doing things under the sea (e.g. chucking spears about) is presumably quite natural. That being so, I see no reason (including word order) for rejecting: 'Neptunus hastas sub undis contorquet.'


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Pedro177810

It is "sub undas" (accusative), instead of "sub undis" (ablative), because the sentence indicates movement.

One should use the accusative with verbs of motion, which is the case of "hurl", contorquere.
For instance: --Fēlēs sub arbore dormit (=the cat sleeps under the tree) – ablative
--Fēlēs sub arborem currit (=the cat runs under the tree) – accusative

https://en.wikiversity.org/wiki/Latin/Prepositions#:~:text=Prepositions%20in%20Latin%20must%20be,the%20accusative%20or%20the%20ablative.&text=%E2%80%9CIn%E2%80%9D%20with%20the%20accusative%20means,can%20also%20take%20both%20cases.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/AJJAYY

No. While your explanation is correct as far as it stands, it is missing the point. The accusative would be correct if Neptune were out of the water, throwing spears into the water. Then, as you point out, the accusative would be appropriate. Of course the English could indeed imply this. So the accusative is not incorrect. However, if Neptune is himself under the water, chucking spears about at targets under the water, then the ablative is quite correct as the spears are the not going INTO the water, but remain IN the water. Now do you see my point? The English could as well have this interpretation, as Neptune is the sea god and lives and operates under the waves (natural ablative, not accusative).


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Pedro177810

Yes, I see your point. But the preposition which is been used here is SUB, not IN.

While Duolingo mentions somewhere, in its ‘Tips’ the difference between the two senses of IN, unfortunately it never explains the two uses of SUB.

« Prepositions in Latin must be used with one of two cases; the accusative or the ablative. Most prepositions “govern” only one case, a few such as “in” can take either, but with a change of meaning. “In” with the accusative means into, onto, against... it has the idea of forward motion, whereas “in” with the ablative denotes simply position, in or on. “Sub” can also take both cases. »

SUB, “under, underneath” ---- ACCUSATIVE with verbs of motion
SUB, “under, underneath” ----- ABLATIVE in normal use, as in ‘The cat sleeps under the tree’ or ‘Neptune lives beneath the waves’ : Neptunus sub undis habitat


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Pedro177810

In the Beatles’ song:

“…So we sailed up to the Sun / Till we found the sea of green /And we lived beneath the waves / In our yellow submarine”

And we lived beneath the waves: Et sub undis habitabamus


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/MargaritaM828631

Could someone explain to me why "sub undis" is incorrect? I thought we learned that "sub" is followed by a noun in the ablative case and "-is" is the plural ablative ending in the first declension.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Pedro177810

Hello, I answered about that above. As I said, I made the same mistake myself.

I also thought it might be 'undis' (ablative), but the correct answer is actually the accusative, because the sentence indicates movement.

For instance: --Fēlēs sub arbore dormit (=the cat sleeps under the tree) – ablative

--Fēlēs sub arborem currit (=the cat runs under the tree) – accusative with verbs of motion. That's the case of "hurl", 'contorquere'

https://en.wikiversity.org/wiki/Latin/Prepositions#:~:text=Prepositions%20in%20Latin%20must%20be,the%20accusative%20or%20the%20ablative.&text=%E2%80%9CIn%E2%80%9D%20with%20the%20accusative%20means,can%20also%20take%20both%20cases.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/MargaritaM828631

I understand. Thank you very much!


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/WilliamAle716781

neptunus hastas sub undas contorquet - this seemed like a more sensible word order actually - wasn't accepted


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/jemahaffey

There seems to be only one correct answer accepted and there are many options!


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Rouslan347301

Salvete! Rogare velim. Neptunus ubi au quo hastas contorquet? Si ubi sub undis. Si quo sub undas. Chiao.

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