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"Zij houden van boeken."

Translation:They love books.

4 years ago

22 Comments


https://www.duolingo.com/Falcomb

Why is there "van"? Can't you say "Zij houden boeken"?

4 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/vam1980
vam1980
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No. 'Zij houden boeken' would translate as 'they keep books'. The translation of 'to love' is 'houden van'.

4 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/johaquila
johaquila
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It's a weird idiomatic expression. To me it looks like an abbreviated form of an idiomatic expression that exists in German. In German you can say the following:

  • "Sie halten viel von Büchern." (They think a great deal of books.) - Literal Dutch translation: "Zij houden veel van boeken."

It can also be negated:

  • "Sie halten wenig von Büchern." (They don't think much of books.) - Literal Dutch translation: "Zij houden weinig van boeken."

The Dutch idiom looks as if it just dropped veel from the (first) German one as if it was understood. There are some instances of the 'complete' idioms in older books, but not so many that they seem to support my theory. Maybe the German idiom is actually derived from the Dutch one.

4 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/PaulineStinson
PaulineStinson
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halten von as you describe it would be hoogachten (a bit outdated and rarely used in other situations than Hoogachtend at the end of a letter, before you sign)

3 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/johaquila
johaquila
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The point of my explanation was that the two idioms were clearly once related, and since the German one is slightly less weird and random it can help some learners to accept the Dutch one. It is not logical as it is today, but by going through German we can see that ultimately it's probably derived from something that made sense.

3 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/PaulineStinson
PaulineStinson
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It is not uncommon for a meaning of a verb to change completely when prepositions are added to it. Neither in German, nor in English.

Dutch etymology books give the following explanation: De uitdrukking houden van betekende in het middelnederlands ‘iets in leen hebben van’, ‘iemands vazal zijn’, vandaar ‘om iemand geven’ en ten slotte ‘iemand beminnen’.

3 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/johaquila
johaquila
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Thanks, that's a fascinating explanation and perfectly logical. Now an intriguing question (for me at least) is whether this is a case of accidental convergence or whether the German expression has the same origin. Unfortunately its etymology is not covered in my source for German etymology (Kluge).

3 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/PaulineStinson
PaulineStinson
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Oh, that's a difficult question! I would say, since halten von and houden van have different meanings, it would be a divergence.. But even so, I'd still have no clue why..

3 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/Soolrak
Soolrak
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Does the word "van" have a meaning by itself? I have seen that most Dutch last names have "van" before, like "Van Gaal", "Van Nistelrooy", etc.

Just curious.

3 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/vam1980
vam1980
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By itself, Dutch 'van' is English 'of':

  • De schoenen van John: the shoes of John
  • Het boek van de leraar: the book of the teacher
  • etc.
3 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/PaulineStinson
PaulineStinson
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The Van in names often points to someone's geographical background at the time they were given surnames, thus: "originating from". For example, my guess is that Van Nistelrooy's family came from Nistelrode, a small place in the south of The Netherlands. Likewise, the humanist Desiderius Erasmus' full name is Desiderius Erasmus van Rotterdam. Note that the capital V changes to lower case when it follows a first name (Ruud van Nistelrooy, Louis van Gaal).

3 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/AnUnicorn
AnUnicorn
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It's like the 'of' or 'from' particles you see in other surnames, like 'de' in French names (de Gaulle), von in German names (von Braun), del in Italian, or o' in Scottish names (but not the O' in Irish names, which is apparently a corruption of the Gaelic patronymic marker 'Ó').

3 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/salems24

is there a reason this can't be translated as 'she loves books'? if not how would you say that in dutch?

reported

3 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/johaquila
johaquila
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Careful! Dutch verbs have plural forms that differ from the singular forms. This is why Dutch can get along with a single word meaning both she and they without causing confusion all the time.

  • Zij houdt van boeken. - She likes books.
  • Zij houden van boeken. - They like books.
3 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/salems24

ahhh ok thanks I kind of already knew that but for some reason didn't relate that to 'houden' xD

3 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/Michael.Sorkin

What is the difference between "Zij" and "Ze", and how can you tell the difference when listening?

2 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/Stickerviolet

Zij will sound more like "zay", while ze will sound more like "zuh". :)

2 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/matteodl
matteodl
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is it correct to say "zij boeken graagen"?

2 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/Nadanotacaba
Nadanotacaba
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"graagen" as a word or verb does not exist. Even if it did exist, the words' sequence in the sentence would have been "zij graagen boeken". "Graag" exist as an adverb, e.g. "Ik lees graag". In this example "graag" supplies additional information about the verb "lees" Ik hoop dat dit helpt.

2 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/KevinDubru

In French "houden" means "tenir" (to hold/keep) just as in Dutch. But once it's used with the preposition "à", so "tenir à", its meaning also turns to a somewhat affective one. For instance "je tiens à toi" means "I care for you" and is so quite similar to the "ik houd van je"

1 year ago

https://www.duolingo.com/annadadela

why i can not say " she likes books" "zij" it is "they" and "she"

1 year ago

https://www.duolingo.com/johaquila
johaquila
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Wrong verb form. The reason Dutch can share a single personal pronoun zij between third person plural and feminine third person singular without causing confusion is that normally you can tell by the verb which is meant:

  • Zij houdt van boeken. = She likes books.
  • Zij houden van boeken. = They like books.

This would work even in English. Suppose English had a single personal pronoun shey meaning either she or they, depending on context. You would still be able to tell the difference:

  • Shey likes books. = She likes books.
  • Shey like books. = They like books.

There is only one major difference between Dutch and English that you need to keep in mind to use this in practice: Dutch verbs have a plural conjugated form that is always identical to the infinitive, that always ends in -en (e.g. wij/jullie/zij houden). It is always different from the singular conjugated forms, which have either no ending (e.g. ik houd) or end in -t (e.g. jij/hij/zij houdt).

1 year ago