3rd Duolingo Poll - Results!
Hey everyone, the poll results are here! But before you scroll down to the bottom for the link, please read my thoughts on it, and some questions I have for you.
The poll has been concluded with about 5k votes, about the same as last time. However, I suspect about 2k of them are vote-fixing. You'll see what I mean when you see the results. I'm disappointed to say the least by this, as the poll was meant to be a fun way to support your language and hopefully get it added to Duolingo. As a result of this, showing the results to the Duolingo staff is laughable as the reliability has plummeted due to the vote fixing. Having said that, I am looking for a solution. I'm wanting to find a way to incorporate reCAPTCHA (made by Luis, CEO of Duolingo) for each voter. However, Google Docs aligns closely with spreadsheets so that would be a must if I were to move the poll to a new platform. The spreadsheets allow the results to be showed and organized very well, and it saves me a lot of time as well. So if you have any ideas/suggestions, leave it in the comments.
After having to organize some results due to people voting for more and different languages, I must say, some people want some very unknown languages. As one said in the comments, maybe voting for a more popular language or set of languages would give us a better idea of what language is wanted, as many of these languages had votes in the single digits. While I am not going to change the voting list or format, I would recommend voting for a more popular language to show your support more, as once the major languages are added, then comes the time for the minor ones and showing support for those. You are still free to vote for whichever language you prefer.
So that's all I have for you. If you have any suggestions, just leave a comment (in a non-rude manner please) and I'll definitely take a look. Again, this is an unofficial poll to which I show the staff the results, but not this poll, as there is too much doubt in the results. The next poll will be in late September, see you then! (Special thanks to morgengrauen for the graphs!)
PS - There are two spreadsheets. You can switch between them at the bottom; "Results" and "Form Responses"
It says I need to "request permission". Are you going to make it public?
Edit: Norwegian is obviously a popular wish. I've got a feeling that Norwegian/Esperanto might be the next Incubator course.
I think that Norwegian got top because Danish and Swedish were a popular topic in the forums a while ago. I am surprised that Esperanto and Hebrew were next, last poll they were both far from the top (I think, might be mistaking).
Esperanto came in first in the last poll, and there was some accusations of "vote fixing" there.
However, instead of "vote fixing," I think it's just a bunch of enthusiastic Esperanto geeks, myself included. The support for a Duolingo module spread through Esperanto social media; I saw it talked about on both Facebook and Reddit. Since language is our passion it can easily pick up a several hundred internet supporters that way without malice.
Edit: I did just look at the raw data, and it does seem like there was some monkey business going starting about 1:46 AM on July 26. It looks like some sort of script was generating votes, for Norwegian, Icelandic, Tamil, Marathi, Esperanto. Yiddish, Ancient Greek, Latin, and Scottish Gaelic.
Norwegian was clearly fixed in this poll, why would you think it's popular?
My vote went to Esperanto, but I have read that when learning Scandinavian languages you can understand the most from the others if you learn Norwegian, which is why I want to learn it.
This is only partly true. Written, the Danish and Norwegian language are easily very similar, but orally they're very different. Swedish and Norwegian are closer orally, but they have their differences when it comes to writing. But their still very much their own languages with their own set of rules. While a native Norwegian might understand much of what their Swedish and Danish neighbours are saying, I'd suspect it be a lot more troublesome for someone who's just learning it.
Source: Me being a Norwegian
There were a lot of people commenting on the Reddit thread saying they picked Norwegian for whatever reasons, so while it may have been fixed I'm not sure it was fixed to the extent you think it was.
If you look on /r/Duolingo there's been a small but vocal group who have wanted Norwegian for a while, and there's at least one redditor who mentions each time it comes up that he volunteered a while ago to do Norwegian and hasn't heard back, so I know it's been in demand for a while.
That nice to hear. I've been checking /r/duolingo from time to time, but this group is unfamiliar to me. Whoever the redditor is, he sure can't have been the only one, although I'm puzzled by Dulingo staff's nonexistent communication with appliers. Hopefully they'll let us start up something soon, but until then we'll just need patience...
because at the time of the poll it was popular in the forums, and danish and swedish were hot topics as well.
I like the idea of having these polls, but the problems with vote fixing really render the results useless as you say. I think Google Docs simply isn't very suitable for the task. Maybe you could use some online voting tool for these kind of polls? I'm guessing that plenty of free ones exist and none of them would suffer from the problems that you are experiencing with vote fixing.
By the way your suggestion about implementing recaptcha wouldn't prevent cheating, it could just reduce it a little bit, but not towards the point that it would become an honest poll in my opinion.
I would imagine that the majority of people who fix the vote would do it by hand, so although recaptcha would prevent bots from voting I would imagine that most people would just vote once, do the recaptcha again and vote again. For example five of the first six votes are Slovakian and there are only 22 votes for it in total, so that is probably just someone submitting the form multiple times. If duolingo did a poll though, then they could limit it to one vote per account, but obviously that would require their support.
@lingoingo Even if people did this the effect would be surely be relatively negligible as this would still only account for a few extra votes? Whatever went on with Norwegian must be something else with numbers like that? Wonder how they did it!
Sorry, I did not know this. I would still suspect that people would just open different browsers on different devices and vote with them.
@BritBlue I suppose it would only make a significant difference to the smaller languages. As for how Norwegian did it, I would imagine (although I am no expert on the subject) that it would be a lot more inconspicuous if you could spread out the votes rather than having a sudden burst, but that is just my theory and I don't know whether bots can do that or not.
I was assuming there was no IP check, but I see that you say that there is (or should be) one. I'm still not convinced that this check is working propely though.
Strawpoll.me is the best option in my opinion. It's a free option that also have excellent security. You're only able to vote once. The results are public but that is totally fine, and can actually be seen as a positive. We use it all the time on reddit because surveymonkey makes you pay for over 100 results.
There is also the limitation of only 30 suggestions. But you can either split it up to two polls, or you could choose the top 30 suggestions.
It's a real shame that some people take advantage of this poll. That being said, I would like to say a sincere "Thank you!" for organizing the survey, as it gives honest voters a chance to support their desired language.
(If anyone's wondering, I voted for Hebrew :D)
It seems to me this rather highlights the disparity between the two groups using or likely to use DL:
Huge numbers in the 2nd and developing worlds who want/need to learn English (at least initially - other languages may follow later) to better their life opportunities; and
Relatively small numbers of 1st world people wanting to study a wide variety of minority interest languages, mostly as a hobby and/or a game.
TBH I don't see how any exercise like this poll has any validity or value unless it is tamperproof. Chriswen42's suggestion of strawpoll.me looks interesting if really secure. OK, so it's limited to 30 options, but is that actually a bad thing?
Why not take the Top 30 from this poll and run it next time with strawpoll.me? Yes, it would lose the options with least support from this latest poll, but languages with only a handful of votes aren't likely to be a priority for DL anyway.
I voted for Norwegian! Only once too! So at least one of the votes for it is legit. :P
Despite the vote fixing, I'm just really happy that Latin scored so highly-- even in the repaired data. That's one I've been hoping to see in the incubator for a while.
Lingua latina volumus! Lingua latina volumus! Lingua latina optima maxima est! And I can keep going :)
To those who voted for Esperanto; what are the reasons behind your desire to learn that language? (not to be rude or anything, I'm just really curious since it's not a very common/used one) thank you! :)
Esperanto was originally designed as an easy-to-learn, easy-to-apply language that drew influences from a variety of languages and would thus be a good second language for people of all cultures to learn to bridge a cultural gap. A lot of people (not really me, but others - I'm sure you've seen some around here) are really fascinated by that concept, and want to see it given more attention through a resource like Duolingo.
As for Esperanto not being very common/used: the Esperanto language suffers from a sort of catch-22 in that it's meant to be a lingua franca, but nobody bothers to learn it because there aren't enough speakers to make it function especially well as a bridge between cultural gaps. That is, nobody learns it because there aren't enough people learning it for it to serve the purpose it was supposed to have. You also have to take into account that Esperanto, being a constructed language, is not native to a nation or even region, and so there's no place on Earth where Esperanto is necessarily required to integrate into the local culture (compared to, say, living in Helsinki where you'd be much more well-off knowing Finnish than not). There are very few native speakers of Esperanto (I believe there've been something like 100 in the 100+ years the language has been around), which further stifles its growth.
To put it simply: as a conlang which was constructed with a purpose in mind (one which it probably hasn't fulfilled to the extent that its creator wished it would), Esperanto has to jump a lot more hurdles than other languages in terms of getting people on board to learn it. Making a Duolingo course available for it would certainly allow more interested parties to give it a shot.
EDIT: Forgot to mention, but Esperanto used to have a more internationally-widespread following, but its speakers were persecuted under the Nazi regime as its creator was a Jew and the language was seen as a Jewish presence in German society that had to be eliminated. Esperanto-speakers were thus targeted in the Holocaust.
I chose Esperanto because it is usually, as well as English, a common language amongst polyglot communities which I would love to be a part of.
It seems a bit ironic that polyglots would resort to Esperanto to communicate, doesn't it? It would seem to me that they would have plenty of other languages to choose from :-)
I think a lot of them choose to learn it because it helps in understanding the way that other languages are constructed.
Well, if they have managed to learn the same language yes. The probability goes up the more languages they have learnt I suppose! However Esperanto isn't aimed at "polyglots" at all. The simplest explanation is that it was intended to be the language in which you would be able to order beer in any country in which you find yourself. Free from the overlays of invasion, occupation, colonialism, cultural imperialism and other stuff that gets in the way of communication.
I know that it wasn't 'aimed' at polyglots, more that it is learned by them for the reasons you stated.
Same here, I can't access it. As for the vote fixing, I can't comment until I see the results but I remember that you said that you thought Finnish was fixed in the poll - why? Is it just based on the numbers that you think this? Just curious!
I'm also curious. Last time he said that he noticed a lot of votes for the same language around the same time, but I got the impression that he couldn't even verify the IP address, so I suspect the amount of cheating and voting for multiple languages is even much higher :-(
The amount of votes and the time when the votes happened. A lot of votes in a very small amount of time.
Yes, I'm 100% certain the votes for norwegian are fixed. That's assuming the data is valid and wasn't corrupted. Either it is one hell of a coincidence that they voted 1 second apart, or it was performed by a bot or some other tool.
If I was going to invalidate data, I would've made Albanian (I applied to contribute) more popular than 8 votes.
Thanks. Welsh got 154 votes? Last time I looked it was about 23 or something! and yes, without meaning to cause offense, it does seem like there may be something fishy going on with Norwegian - shame, they should have just left it alone, I'm sure it would have got a good number votes anyway. Maybe you could still show Duo the results - they will be able to see through any strange patterns anyway and see what courses seem genuinely popular?
Also I'm not entirely convinced that all those courses were fixed - with a big community like Duolingo there must also be some votes naturally close together? Just due to the law of probabilities? With any online poll there will always be some sort of 'vote fixing' but statistically it shouldn't affect the integrity of the poll too much? I'm not including Norwegian in this BTW - clearly something going on there unless I have somehow missed a gap in the market!
Thanks for doing this krispykracker. It's such a shame to the community that people cheat this but nevermind. In some ways I suppose it shows how much people love Duolingo and how keen they are for certain courses to get started. Of course that doesn't excuse them.
I think that adding CAPTCHA would only slow down would be cheaters and not stop them. If someone is determined to cheat then they simply type out the CAPTCHA letters and vote again. Limiting to one vote per IP address may be more useful (although not foolproof), but of course I have no idea how you could implement this in a free and easy poll.
Anyway though, it's interesting to see the results and some very interesting languages have got large percentages of the vote. I will definitely be patiently awaiting any news from Duo :D
Thing is, Google Docs can't implement reCAPTCHA and Google Docs allows one vote per browser, so the vote-fixing was done somehow in another way.
All they need to do is vote in anonymous mode using the browser. But those votes were certainly done using a bot. Recaptcha would have likely prevented that, it would be too much of a hassle to make so many votes, especially considering that some recaptchas are very hard to decipher by humans, let alone machines.
Easypolls, suggested above sounds like a good alternative, and they have anti cheating mechanisms built in, of course I don't think it allows its data to be exported to a spreadsheet though, since it makes no mention of that.
On closer inspection it says that to get IP address filtering, you have to go to premium, but this does only cost 99 cents per poll.
all you would have to do is use incognito mode in chrome to get around the one vote per browser limitation.
1) High-quality contributors.
2) Enough support from the community and future learners
3) It's one of the languages on the immediate waiting list.
Just my guess.
and because hebrew doesnt use the latin alphabet, and writes right to left:
4) Develop duolingo to use right to left
5) find a way to input the non latin alphabet into duolingo
Why can't you the staff the vote-fixed poll? I don't see a reason to question this poll, as this has removed most of the fixed votes from the poll. This also clearly shows that the top three languages would be Esperanto, Hebrew and Latin, and I don't see a reason to doubt this result?
YAY! Hebrew is looking good. Hope all of you who voted for it are going to enjoy the course when it comes out.
I don't mean to offend anyone by this, but I think Irish had vote fixing in the first poll... But anyways, it's nearly available on Duolingo! :)
But the document says I need permission?
Haha, the Irish community on reddit became aware of the poll and the votes weren't in a small amount of time, more spread out.
Yes, it certainly does look like someone is automating the voting. But from the pattern, it might just be a single individual, doing block votes using a script. If it was multiple individuals you should see some variation in times of the block voting, or even interleaving. But we see a block vote for Norwegian, then a couple of minutes later a block vote for Icelandic, then a couple of minutes later another for Norwegian, etc, etc. And you see some other languages shoved in amongst the blocks as a real human has made a vote! All a bit childish really.
Yay! 21 other people are interested in Slovakian! At least it's better than the six we had last time!
First, when I saw the results I was extremely happy. 1500 votes for Norwegian. Awesome! That is about a Third of the votes. But then I saw the newer Version, I was a bit sad. Stupid that People are doing this ... I actually hope Esperanto, Norwegian and Hebrew will be the Next Languages to come.
it doesn't mean some got only two digits it is just that low I hope that some of in here should be included already! and why is valyrian and Dothraki is here? xD
This is so discouraging. We vote and it is shot down. Myself and quite a few others worked very hard to make sure we informed people people interested in Hebrew voted for it. There were discussions and everything for it. It makes it to the top 3 and now it is discredited.
I don't understand the logic of DL saying that to vote for a more popular language when we can elect to learn Irish on here now and not languages that are spoken by whole countries and millions of people.
This is unofficial poll, organized by someone of the community, and without the help or support from Duolingo. There is absolutely no guarantee that the results of this kind of polls will be a deciding factor for the selection of the languages to be added to the incubator next. If we had reliable polls maybe it could help, but the most important is that they have skilled people willing to dedicate a lot of time to build the course.
I have talked to so many people on here that are fluent in English and Hebrew that have contacted DL repeatedly to create a Hebrew course. They don't hear back. There was a a couple of huge discussion groups of many people wanting to sign up for the course. The interest is there on both sides. Why not let them create it?
Need a text-to-speech engine, they're still fixing the incubator and working out kinks.
Thank you for your response. Are you serious?! That means they're working on having a Hebrew course?!
This problem isn't specific to Hebrew. A lot of smaller languages need some sort of customization. But there's plans for a lot of languages, and Hebrew is a fairly large one, so there'll definitely be one (eventually of course, just like with the others)
Thank you very much for sharing that. I was feeling SO discouraged. I LOVE duolingo and have sent so many people here. I want to learn Hebrew but only here. I think this is the best way to learn a language online following a course. I am so happy now. You made my weekend. Thank you. :-)
I cannot wait for both Esperanto and Norwegian to be added, along with every other language of course :)
Maybe you could use Strawpoll for the next poll, I believe they restrict voting to once per IP. I may be wrong though.
Obviously the only legitimate options are to either use a paid poll or to get Duolingo involved as this is something that should interest them. I suggest both. We could start a petition right here in the community.
Krispycracker, I would recommend Fluid surveys. You can make them for free or pay to get more features. It has a really good interface and we used it to survey students at a university with much success. It also provides intricate and varied ways to view the data.
I never got the notice of a new poll. I've been urging for Hebrew for months now. How do I add myself to the poll?
Has there been any progress in getting the top finishers in the poll (Esperanto, Hebrew) added to the incubator? Actually, I see that Esperanto is in the incubator. So I guess the question is why Duolingo is epically "dragging its feet" to add Hebrew even though there is a ridiculous amount of interest (https://www.duolingo.com/comment/2173060$from_email=comment_id=5646439) and lots of people have volunteered to contribute.
Luis said in a Reddit AMA that they want to get some of the other languages done in the Incubator before they add new ones, which is why Hebrew and Norwegian have not entered the Incubator yet.
Esperanto was easy to add because there was a significant amount of volunteers willing to work on the language, it uses a Latin alphabet, and it's highly regular.
I imagine Hebrew and Norwegian will make it in soon, but until they get Hungarian and Turkish across the line you probably won't see another language from English added any time soon.