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https://www.duolingo.com/profile/AnLxoP

Another course update? (Version 16? I’m not very sure)

Since I started learning French, the course has been updated twice (which is a lot as I’ve been studying French for only two years or so). And every time I receive a notification about an update (like this time just some minutes ago), I’m both excited and freaked out. Like, “what did they add to the course”, “did they add something new on the lessons I’ve golden”. And most of the time, I’m forced (by myself) to read all the tips again from the very first lesson just to make sure I don’t miss anything (that takes quite a lot of time btw). What about you? Do you feel like having to read all the tips again? How have you dealt with updates?

June 18, 2020

57 Comments


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/2LearningSpanish

I was just doing French lessons minutes ago, and nothing was different, so I will check tomorrow to see if I will get an update like you on my account.

Yes, I have done a lot of lessons in French and have read all the grammar notes, and have seen a lot of changes, too.

By the way, I think they update the Spanish and French courses more often because those courses are so popular here.

It looks like you have been doing a lot of studying over the last 139 or 140 days, so naturally any update is going to throw off your great schedule of what skills you've already turned golden and make you repeat some things if the skill only changes a bit, with a few new words, but they then turn it back to completely undone on the Learn page.

Maybe some other people will comment on what they saw in the update. Until then, see you again tomorrow, maybe, if you would like to add in any more news about what changed in the update. I bet a lot of people would like to know more, too, in case their accounts change soon! Good night!


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/AnLxoP

It’s impossible for a normal person to study that much in 140 days. I had a 397-day streak and then lost it (let me just say that it upset me a lot).


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/2LearningSpanish

That does sound very upsetting. But even more impressive that you have been learning here longer, and put in so much effort! I didn't even check to see your Duome page to see if you had lost a streak because you are a serious student of languages from the data still showing, so I know you are studying on a regular basis.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/kimojima

I have the new tree on iOS but not on the Web version through Safari. And, yes, I only use one login/ one account. This is very strange. I could understand the app being behind, but what is the explanation for the old tree still being shown on Safari. Again, I only have one account. I would think the directly loadable Web version would always be the latest version. Is it possible to have A/B testing in iOS but not in Web Safari for the same account?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Thomas.Heiss

Today I got upgraded to the new tree with 172 skills and 830 lessons.

Indeed it could be that it is called "tree16" because of the new variables I see in my "extended user profile":

tree_fr_en_v34_experiment

  • contexts []
  • treated: TRUE
  • destiny "16"
  • condition "16"
  • eligible: TRUE

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/mng22
  • 1353

Interesting. I was upgraded a couple weeks ago to this tree. It seems that the problem of some of the level 5 skills getting "stuck" at duome.eu strengths of 25% or 50% has been remedied. What do you think?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/NancyMihalich

My extended user profile says "treated":true, "destiny":"control", "condition":"16", "eligible":false}, etc. I assume I have "tree 16." Thanks for your valuable information!


[deactivated user]

    When you look at the tree, any skill with an update has a small mark next to it (small circle I think, but it's a while since I had an update), which disappears after you have accessed that skill - so just scan down the tree.

    I haven't got the latest update yet...


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/AnLxoP

    What device do you use? ‘Cause I don’t remember seeing any circle in the previous update, and in this update I don’t see any either.


    [deactivated user]

      I'm using the web on a laptop. Should have said a small dot - easily missed if you are not on the lookout, but it is obvious once you've seen one, only small and next to the updated skill


      https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Thomas.Heiss

      ‘Cause I don’t remember seeing any circle in the previous update
      Should have said a small dot

      It is a blue dot (very small) below the skill a bit to ones side.


      https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Thomas.Heiss

      Fierycat has published the vocabulary list including which skills/sections offer tips for tree16 (172 skills) here: https://forum.duolingo.com/comment/40294265

      Backlink to the Summary thread: https://forum.duolingo.com/comment/31074292/List-of-Vocabularies-for-Language-Courses-of-Duolingo


      https://www.duolingo.com/profile/NancyMihalich

      Thanks for the links! I have Tree 16 now.


      https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Jeff_Grundman

      I do not go back and read the tips. If course material is added you should see your crown levels downgraded. That's what happened to a lot of mine on the last big expansion. That and a lot of new skills added.


      https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Seattle_Scott

      Today, in addition to the updated section six, there are a number of very low level sections on basic verb conjugation, but you can't test out of them. It seems pointless to not let people test out of basic skills in the first two levels when they're already redoing level six content.


      https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Thomas.Heiss

      Hi,

      thanks for letting us know.

      I took a look at your Duome profile for the updated FR<-EN tree / with 32 newly added/reorganized -19 removed skill names (thanks @W-Ruggles-Wolfe) = 14 number stats difference:

      • Crowns: 862
      • Skills: 172+2
      • Lessons: 830+6
      • Duolingo "Lexemes ids" (are not "real" lexemes): 5301+39

      Does any French moderator know how this new tree version is called?

      You might want to update the thread title to include the tree version later.

      Greetings from Germany


      https://www.duolingo.com/profile/AnLxoP

      Can you share the link, please?

      And btw, what is a thread subject? (Sorry, I’m not an expert at technology.)


      https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Atervanda

      https://duome.eu/AnLxoP/progress

      The thread subject is the title of your post. You can change it by clicking 'edit'.

      I think this is version 16, but don't quote me on that.


      https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Atervanda

      I noticed yesterday that two more A/B tests have been set up for the French course, this time for version 18.


      https://www.duolingo.com/profile/W-Ruggles-Wolfe

      @Thomas.Heiss -- It looks to be a rather significant restructure of the upper levels of the course. Here's how it compares to my tree.

      • Far left is the new tree
      • Skills w/gray numbers are the older tree.


      https://www.duolingo.com/profile/JeffW028473

      That's a great list of new stuff, hopefully, by the time I get to those lessons, they'll be in my version. Is there really an animal crossing lesson now?


      https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Atervanda

      Is there really an animal crossing lesson now?

      Apparently that's the name of the skill, but it's not the short title that appears in the tree:

      Maybe an inside joke. Or an oversight.

      Edit: this is just the 'Animals 1' skill. Changes appear to be minimal. I'm getting sentences that are six years old and no new exercise types. Other skills do have new sentences, though. It's not all cosmetic.


      https://www.duolingo.com/profile/NancyMihalich

      I'm not using an IPhone, W-Ruggles-Wolfe. I have a laptop so I don't know about the low level skills! "Vos amis" should be accepted for "your friends," though!


      https://www.duolingo.com/profile/W-Ruggles-Wolfe

      @NancyMihalich: I wish I had taken a screen shot.

      Any critique of Duolingo is tricky because I appreciate DL's efforts. At the same time, the new French tree changes are odd. So many missing xlations, etc.


      https://www.duolingo.com/profile/AdrianC602

      It's always the same with new skills.

      DL release the sentence with a core of translations, the user base go "Hold on a mo..." and come up with a load of different (but perfectly valid) phrasings that DL simply didn't think of.

      That's what "Report" -> "My Answer Should Be Accepted" is for...

      Can I suggest something? Install the Solution Viewer browser add-on, and get an insight into how the answers are parsed...
      https://forum.duolingo.com/comment/38731989/New-browser-extension-for-viewing-the-lists-of-accepted-solutions


      https://www.duolingo.com/profile/W-Ruggles-Wolfe

      @AdrianC602

      Certainly, I'm aware of the need to "break in" new skills (I've been around long enough), and to use the "My answer should be accepted" function.

      The particular skill I was working on is a bit unusual. It only shows up on my iPhone, and not when I'm using the website. (This is why the browser extension doesn't help for this case.)

      The skill is called 'Agreement' and is very very basic. The question I encountered was a fill in the blank, with the hint of "Your friends are nice", then "[enter text] amis sont gentils".

      And it rejected "Vos". Only accepted "Tes".

      That seems like a case the course developer should have easily been able to anticipate. It's not some random 356th edge case.

      And yes, I did report it. And as previously mentioned, any critique of Duolingo is tricky because I appreciate DL's efforts -- but sometimes these new skills are rolled out when they just aren't ready.


      https://www.duolingo.com/profile/AdrianC602

      I know the one you mean - it just appeared for me (on browser) yesterday, along with a few other similar skills dotted through the earlier checkpoints. I think they're being A/B tested.

      2 levels x 4 lessons.


      https://www.duolingo.com/profile/AdrianC602

      I'm sat right on the cusp of this - L1 all the way to checkpoint 6 - and I've still got the old tree.

      I'm using the opportunity to pause from moving forwards, and hover some of the other skills up levels, but unless the new tree gets rolled out soon, I'm going to have to decide whether to go forward or not.

      Worse things happen at sea, I know, but...


      https://www.duolingo.com/profile/NancyMihalich

      Thanks again, Thomas and W-Ruggles-Wolfe. I noticed new skills on my French tree yesterday. I plan to test out of them. I guess I'll lose my Owl once a year.


      https://www.duolingo.com/profile/NancyMihalich

      EDIT: I lost my Golden Own again and it's only been two months! This is ridiculous! 24 more new skills were added today! This is frustrating because I can't get most of my skills past Level 2 with all the additions!


      https://www.duolingo.com/profile/GrahamWarr

      @NancyMihalich: I also got an update today. However, it's been the least disruptive one that I've suffered over the years. AFAIK, the first 150 skills seem unchanged, but the next 22 skills were replaced by 24 the new ones that you note. So going by fierycat's post elsewhere in this forum, it must be Tree 18,


      https://www.duolingo.com/profile/NancyMihalich

      Thanks, GrahamWarr and Fierycat! According to https://www.duolingo.com/users/username, I have Tree 18 (like you said). "treated":true,"destiny":"control","condition":"18" I have 176 skills and the new 24 purple skills are in the last checkpoint (7). I couldn't unlock the new skills until I got 10 questions correct in checkpoint 7. I tried to unlock checkpoint 8's Big Test but it was too difficult. So, I'm testing out of the last purple skills one at a time. I also have more French Stories which doesn't bother me. I'm having fun with the Stories!


      https://www.duolingo.com/profile/NancyMihalich

      Aaaaaaand, I lost my Golden Owl again. I'm getting nowhere fast because I keep getting new skills. I need to do 22 more skills before I get the owl back. My duome says: Skills: 227/247+3 and Lessons: 1062/1206+9. How can I stop this madness?


      https://www.duolingo.com/profile/NancyMihalich

      Annnnd, two weeks later, I have 24 more new skills after the Checkpoint8. I don't know what Tree I have now! Duolingo is determined to keep taking my French Golden Owl away!


      https://www.duolingo.com/profile/W-Ruggles-Wolfe

      My personal favorite has been the (new) low level skills on iOS.

      The system rejected «vos amis» for "your friends".


      https://www.duolingo.com/profile/EduMatOzone

      I'm not sure if this is "Tree 5"... I add the new info to the course data webpage, thank you! :D :D :D

      http://ardslot.com/duolingocrowns.html


      https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Thomas.Heiss

      @EduMatOzone

      No, not "tree 5"!

      See my previous comment: https://forum.duolingo.com/comment/39663574?comment_id=40085829

      First CEFR A1 tree was called tree8, following bigger A2 tree update (156 skills) was called tree12:

      https://forum.duolingo.com/comment/29069435/French-Trees-Explained

      Then it followed a few minor tree13 and tree14 (158 skills) updates with A/B tests which have not been officially documented in the above thread by moderators.

      Tree13: https://forum.duolingo.com/comment/33138041

      Tree 14: https://forum.duolingo.com/comment/35365573

      (This) thread about tree16: https://forum.duolingo.com/comment/39663574/

      At the moment I have no idea what tree15 specifically was and if we had a thread talking about it.

      ..(...)..

      Problem with staff/contractor based trees:

      There are usually multiple (different) A/B experiment variables assigned to several users in parallel...
      ........it looks like (based on my own experiment variables) multiple -- concurrent -- A/B tests link back to one specific tree version.
      But I am not 100% sure how staff designed the naming scheme when "tree version numbers" are jumping and leaving out previous (following) numbers and how many are tested in parallel (at the same time).

      You can check your own extended profile (big JSON text stream!): https://www.duolingo.com/users/USERNAME

      Use "tree_fr_en_vXX_experiment" as search keywords and check the assigned "destiny" and "condition" variables for your running A/B experiments / tests.

      XX = version number

      You might need to use a JSON viewer to make sense of those barely readable text strings.


      https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Dave746226

      @Thomas Thank you for teaching me the trick of starting a classroom. At this point, I believe that will exempt me from a tree change I don't want right now. I will be happy to be changed once I complete this tree, but I could not stand the morale buster of the constantly moving goal line. I KNOW I am supposed to be grateful for more content, but it has become important to me to finish THIS tree first. So, thanks.


      https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Black_Cherries

      Thomas.Heiss,

      Thank you for this valuable information.

      I just did what you suggested putting in '18' for the 'XX,' and this is what I found from the search:

      [],"treated":false,"destiny":"control","condition":"control","eligible":false},"tree_fr_en_v18_experiment"

      Does this mean I am on tree18?

      Thanks.

      EDIT: I must not be on Tree 18 yet, because my "treated" and "eligible" variables say "false."


      https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Atervanda

      'tree_fr_en_v40_experiment' is the experiment for version 18


      https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Black_Cherries

      Oh, okay!

      Thanks, Atervanda.


      https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Black_Cherries

      Okay, so I got "tree_fr_en_v40_experiment" when I searched for it -- meaning I am on Tree 18?

      But my "treated" and "eligible" variables on that line still read "false"...


      https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Atervanda

      You're on version 16. Check 'tree_fr_en_v34_experiment' or v35 or v36. One of those three (probably v34) should have 'eligible' and 'treated' set to 'true' for you, with 'condition' and 'destiny' set to '16'. I don't believe anyone is currently on version 18.


      https://www.duolingo.com/profile/NancyMihalich

      I lost my Golden Owl a couple weeks ago and it looks like I have "tree_fr_en_v44_experiment". Is this Tree 19?


      https://www.duolingo.com/profile/EduMatOzone

      I think I will only publish in the table the active trees of each course. That is, those currently used in Duolingo app&web. Obsolete trees, since no one has them in Duolingo, will not appear in the table.
      And I will change the nomenclature to "OLD" and "CURRENT" (without OLD word).
      Somethink like French Old (FR) 158 and French (FR) 172.
      Now the question is... what french trees are already in use?

      @EduMatOzone Your table left out the previous tree12 with 156 skills (most users should have been migrated to the later versions).

      Yes... if it's still in use, it must appair in the table... Thanks!!!


      https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Thomas.Heiss

      @EduMatOzone

      Your table left out the previous tree12 with 156 skills (most users should have been migrated to the later versions).

      See Fierycat's vocabulary list:

      https://forum.duolingo.com/comment/31074292/List-of-Vocabularies-for-Language-Courses-of-Duolingo


      https://www.duolingo.com/profile/FieryCat

      Hello Thomas.
      For your information, here is a list of the French trees for English speakers:

      • Version: 18, skills: 174, status: ACTIVE_LOCKED
      • Version: 17, skills: 164, status: INITIALIZING
      • Version: 16, skills: 172, status: ACTIVE_LOCKED
      • Version: 15, skills: 152, status: ACTIVE
      • Version: 14, skills: 158, status: RELEASED
      • Version: 13, skills: 142, status: ACTIVE_LOCKED
      • Version: 12, skills: 156, status: ACTIVE_LOCKED

      I hope I helped you.


      https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Atervanda

      Just noticed a couple of tests for version 19 have been added. Things don't appear to be going great.


      https://www.duolingo.com/profile/FieryCat

      Yes, you are right. I can see this version as well:

      • Version: 19, skills: 200, status: ACTIVE

      https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Atervanda

      Hey FieryCat, could you tell us a little about what those statuses mean?


      https://www.duolingo.com/profile/FieryCat

      Hey Atervanda, I will try to explain those statuses.

      • INITIALIZING - It is a tree in the initial filling stage.
      • ACTIVE - Under develop.
      • RELEASED - It is the main tree of the course. Changes in this tree are limited. This tree is given to a user that does not have an A/B test associated with some ACTIVE_LOCKED tree.
      • ACTIVE_LOCKED - Any changes in this tree are limited. Such trees are usually being tested right now or have not passed the test but are still not deleted for some reason. It also may be an abandoned or temporary tree.

      Keep in mind, this information may not be accurate: I did not delve much into that. It would be better to ask the contributors about those statuses.


      https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Black_Cherries

      "It would be better to ask the contributors about this."

      Yes, that is what I'm going to do.

      Thanks, FieryCat.


      https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Atervanda

      Thank you very much!


      https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Thomas.Heiss

      FYI: Tracee Miller from staff uploaded a screenshot about new Schools V2 and her French classroom course had 324 skills up to Cefr B2 level but with only 8 checkpoints (not 9 or 10).

      https://duolingoschools.zendesk.com/hc/en-us/articles/4407208931725-How-do-I-view-the-curriculum-for-a-class-on-Duolingo-

      I wanted to quickly test the Schools V2 "curriculum tab view" as it now shows the related CEFR levels for each unit.

      Interestingly my new classroom removed French section #10 and limited total skills to 202 so this thread https://forum.duolingo.com/comment/50586446 is still up-to-date about A/B testing.

      Sections #6-9 show B1 on that new schools view for my stable tree.

      Looks like staff is still working on new content and adding more skills ;)

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