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"Would you like to have something else? Perhaps a cup of coffee?"

Translation:Haluaisitko vielä jotain? Ehkä kuppi kahvia?

June 24, 2020

29 Comments


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/amadoxal

"Haluaisitko jotain muuta" should be accepted as well. That is way closer to the meaning of the Finnish sentence.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/TamySeguiya

if you ask any finnish person 'Haluatko jotain muuta? Ehkä kuppi kahvia?' should be fine, but here it wont accept it


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/amadoxal

'Haluatko' is semantically correct, but the English version has a conditional, so 'haluaISItko' is more correct in this context. However, both versions are in a broader sense correct.

Also, as lk_ explained, 'kupin kahvia' is more correct.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/lk_
  • 1906

It would be understood but it's definitely grammatically not correct, so imo it shouldn't be accepted.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Edub284945

Curious as to why you think it is definitely grammatically not correct? The most correct form would be Haluaisitko jotakin, but I don't think hauluaisitko jotain muuta is incorrect.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/lk_
  • 1906

The problem doesn't lie with jotain/jotakin (which are the same thing, source [fi]) or muuta, but with the conjugation. Let me explain.

As sentences, Haluaisitko jotain muuta? and Ehkä kuppi kahvia? are grammatically correct independently. But now when Ehkä kuppi kahvia? per itself lacks the predicate and references it in the preceding sentence (haluaisitko), it has to respect haluaisitko's conjugation.

The second sentence expanded now is Haluaisitko ehkä kuppi kahvia? which is grammatically incorrect because kuppi is not in right case with haluaisitko; it should be Haluaisitko ehkä kupin kahvia?

Confusion may arise because in this case the meaning of the sentence saisiko olla jotain muuta is quite equivalent to haluaisitko jotain muuta. In this case, saisiko olla requires kuppi and the complete correct sentence is Saisiko olla ehkä kuppi kahvia?

Important in the translation is also the politeness word "would" because it calls for conditional mood. This is indicated in Finnish by the marker -isi-. Haluatko would translate as "do you want".

tl;dr:

Haluaisitko kuppi kahvia is wrong, haluaisitko kupin kahvia correct.
Saisiko olla kuppi kahvia is correct, saisiko olla kupin kahvia is wrong.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/lk_
  • 1906

Replying to your question epingchris (because the forum doesn't allow any higher level replies):

Conditional per itself does not affect the case; it's defined by the base verb. Let's go explore this thing a bit.

Haluta requires partitive:

  • haluatko kahvia? – do you want some coffee?
  • haluan kahvia – I want some coffee.

The conditional mood, usually made just by adding -isi- in the middle of the word, behaves similarly:

  • haluaisitko kahvia? – would you like some coffee?
  • haluaisin kahvia – I would like some coffee.

In my example the other construct, saisiko olla behaves similarly if there's only the uncountable noun (kahvi):

  • saako olla kahvia? – can I get you some coffee? (lit. "can there be some coffee")
  • saisiko olla kahvia? – could I get you some coffee?

The conditional form of saako is saisiko (nominative saada).

When you count the uncountable noun using something, the countable and uncountable noun may behave differently. Now there's kuppi which is countable and behaves differently between haluta and saada.

  • halua[isi]tko kupin? – do you want [/would you like] a cup?
  • halua[isi]n kupin – I want [/would like] a cup.

and:

  • saako [/saisiko] olla kuppi? – can [/could] I get you a cup?

So by combining these two we get:

  • kuppi kahvia (a cup of coffee, nominative)
  • kupin kahvia (a cup of coffee, genitive)

And we arrive here, where different verbs require different forms and the conditional doesn't affect them:

  • halua[isi]tko kupin kahvia?
  • saako [/saisiko] olla kuppi kahvia?

Kinda long answer, but I hope I managed to clear things a bit.


On other notes, I slightly feel I'm nitpicking too much and regret it because I think it potentially just adds unnecessary confusion at this point. But then, teaching people wrong would feel even worse.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/epingchris

Thank you so much, lk_, for the detailed explanation: it does clear things up a lot.

So would you say that the example sentence here is actually incorrect, when the two parts are said in succession?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/lk_
  • 1906

@epingchris:

So would you say that the example sentence here is actually incorrect, when the two parts are said in succession?

Yes, exactly.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Rk5I3

In other words, you're saying that the model answer by Duolingo is incorrect because it has "haluaisitko" with "kuppi kahvia" and I agree with you. It should be "Ehkä kupin kahvia?"


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/epingchris

Just to make sure I've got this: does it mean that when the verb is in conditional mood, the object needs to be in accusative (genitive)? Because I seem to remember that up till now "haluta" has been followed by partitive: "Haluan kahvia"...please correct me if I was mistaken.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Rk5I3

Even though they are translations of the same English sentence, I notice a slight difference: "Haluaisitko vielä jotain?" is the "Would you like to have something else?" after ordering food or after dinner.

"Haluaisitko jotain muuta?" or even better, "Saisiko olla jotain muuta?" is the "Would you like to have something else?" when the customer can't have his/her first choice for whatever reason or can't have the same thing everyone else has ordered. These questions can be used also in the first scenario, but here's the difference I found.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Nemotheblue

Translating from English to Finnish, it would be much clearer to say "something more" so learners don't translate the other meaning of something alternative


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/valkoinenvalas

The English sentence is ambiguous and doesn't specify whether it's "sinä" or "te". I also think it should say "kupin kahvia?"


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/laurauronen

i would definitely put "kupin" kahvia as well


[deactivated user]

    It should accept the singular and plural versions here


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/ARCANA-MVSA

    Friendly reminder that downvoting a sentence discussion is not a good idea! When a sentence's tally sits at anywhere below zero, the sentence cannot be searched for any longer; and at -5, it vanishes from the Sentence tab in the forum. Together, this means that the people who need to find these sentences to fix them, answer questions, etc. cannot find them any longer (except through the course itself which is very time consuming!), and thus nothing can be resolved.

    So please, don't downvote sentence discussions!

    Volgav vitsenanieff nivya kevach varatsach.


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/AGreatUserName

    Whoever decided that's how Duolingo should work is silly!


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/TarjaVermeer

    Is it essential to have the vielä first before jotain? Or should haluaisitko jotain vielä be correct as well?


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/lk_
    • 1906

    I could imagine hearing it from someone being probably very preoccupied and not giving much thought on what they say. It might depend on opinion but I'd say, although it's not the best way to say it, it's not exactly wrong either.


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/VVirtanen

    Haluaisitteko jotakin muuta? Ehkäpä kupin kahvia?

    Reported.


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/JaseGarner

    Saisiko olla jotain muuta? Ehka kuppi kahvia - wouldn't this be okay?


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/lk_
    • 1906

    That's absolutely correct, though remember to use the right letters :)


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/prostyM

    Haluaisitteko / Haluaisitko both should be accepted. as "you" can mean singular and many, also. formal.


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/RaymondElFuego

    "haluaisitteko te jotain eri? ehkä kuppi kahvia?" Could "eri" be used like this?


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/amadoxal

    No. It would be understood, but it wouldn't be grammatically correct. "Haluaisitteko jotain erilaista" would be "would you like something different", not something else, as it's supposed to be.


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Carsten786321

    Haluatko should be accepted, This is Finnish for beginners:)

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