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  5. "Halaan ujoa naista, vaikka m…

"Halaan ujoa naista, vaikka myös minä olen ujo."

Translation:I hug the shy woman, even though I am also shy.

June 24, 2020

42 Comments


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/anonyneko

Social distancing!


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/mette547406

don't do this in finland lol


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/belliavesha

Do Finns never hug?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/mette547406

i mean yeah but like not unless we know the person and in this context i'd be so uncomfortable ahaha


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Bernard_Gang

I know what you mean, but tbh hugging people you don't know is weird here in the UK too lol.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/jenwoodworth

Third generation Finnish American. My family hugs at weddings and funerals. Not hugging is embedded deep in the Finnish dna.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/SabularTemmie

why is "myös" there? shouldn't it be after the verb? or is that just a trend but not a hard rule?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/mette547406

grammatically it doesn't really make a difference (i suppose?) but it sounds a bit better like that. it basically would translate to english as "i hug the shy woman even though i too am shy" as opposed to "i am shy too".


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Juha757388

myös minä olen ujo / olen myös ujo / olen ujo myös would all mean the same thing. Word order is often quite free in Finnish.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Juha_Metsakallas

The order is free, but where you put myös shifts the emphasis on the following word.

  • Myös minä olen ujo : It has been established that some other person is shy and now I reveal that I am shy too.

  • Minä olen myös ujo : It has come up that I have a certain other character trait and now I reveal that I am also shy.

  • Olen ujo myös : Since there is no following word to myös, it is unclear which one of the two interpretations above is the correct one. In the exercise the rest of the sentence guides us, but without a clear context, this order is usually avoided.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Pinky851118

Stay consistent. Otherwise, 'although' should also be accepted


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Kadi490

I second this.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/LindaDavis937406

Why is "...I also am shy" incorrect? It is the same meaning!


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Disco76534

I hug the shy woman, even though I am also shy. I also / Also I am is the same thing. Word order again.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/AGreatUserName

"even though also I" and "I also am" are quite unnatural word orders in English. They should be accepted too though because they're not really wrong.


[deactivated user]

    I hug / I'm hugging should both be accepted


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/w3WLnVmI

    It seems to me that this should be acceptable: I hug the shy woman, though I am also shy. But it gets marked wrong.


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/AGreatUserName

    Yeah! “Although” and “even though” are more common, but just “though” is also possible.

    There shouldn’t be a comma in the English sentence though.


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Juha_Metsakallas

    That may be true, but…

    Vaikka is a subjugation, which begins a subclause, which must be separated by a comma from the main clause in Finnish. (N.B. I put commas into the preceeding sentence according to the Finnish rules, which most likely is wrong according to the English rules.) Having said that I think, that Duolingo doesn't check commas at all.


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/AGreatUserName

    That's exactly my point. There must be a comma in the Finnish sentence, but there shouldn't be in the English sentence. The rules are different. Finnish separates subordinate clauses from the main clause with commas on either boundary. English only does on the back boundary because the subordinating conjunction at the front boundary is enough of a marker.

    I hug the shy woman even though I am also shy. (No comma on front boundary.)
    Even though I am also shy, I hug the shy woman. (Comma on back boundary.)

    Duolingo doesn't pay attention to commas at all, but throughout this course, English sentences have incorrect commas wherever there would be a comma in Finnish. It's not exactly high priority to change it, but it should be changed.


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/zamlet

    The comma isn't wrong in English in this sentence, but it changes the meaning of the sentence slightly. It reduces the importance of what comes after it in this case.


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/BethK

    "....though I am shy as well" was marked wrong. Reported.


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Juha757388

    "am hugging" would be good too, possibly a better translation. It seems the designers have chosen the simpler English tense for translating the Finnish preesens, while in the French course, for example, the French present tenses are always translated to "am walking, am studying" etc.


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Emile-_-

    The French course also simplifies the tenses. We have something like 22 tenses and not all do have an equivalent in English. It depends more on the context and the developers managed it pretty well.


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/zamlet

    "i hug the shy woman although i too am shy" should be accepted. Reported.


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Ems747

    even though / also should both be accepted for vaikka


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/undulan

    No. 'vaikka' = 'though', 'although', 'even though', 'even if' 'myös' = 'also', 'too', 'as well'


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/DollieA5

    I need help in determining when you use nainen versun naista. They both mean woman. I know there has to be some grammatical rule to make that determination but what?


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Juha_Metsakallas

    The verb halata : to hug is a transitive one, i.e. it takes a direct object, the person or thing you hug. In English there are special object forms only for some person pronouns, e.g. "hug me".

    In Finnish there are separate grammar cases for direct objects depending on whether it is a total object or a partial one.

    partial object

    You use the partial object case, the partitive, when the object is part of something

    • Juon maitoa : I am drinking (some) milk

    or when the action is incomplete

    • Luen kirjaa : I am reading a book

    This "partialness" is behind the logic why some verbs always take a partial object.

    • Rakastan sinua : I love you
    • Halaan naista : I hug the woman

    In many cases the object is an uncountable one (see the milk example above).

    total object

    • Luen kirjan : I will read the (whole) book

    For further explanations see "Unofficial" grammar tips for all Finnish learners - FAQ list.


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/DavyFor

    why "I hug the shy women". sounds bettet 'I hug shy women". I suppose this is a specific group... the shy women at this party for instance. but' the shy women' sounds rather awkward in English


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/BernardAda9

    "Shy women" with no article requires the partitive plural, which you have not got.


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/BernardAda9

    What exactly is wrong with "I am hugging a shy woman . . ." ? Grammatically speaking, that is, never mind etiquette.


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/BernardAda9

    Why do you persistently repeat a question when you have wrongly fouled a correct answer? I think I know my English!


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/jenwoodworth

    Why do you persistently offer an answer that, although correct, you know will be considered wrong? Finnish is in Beta. There will be mistakes. Work around them or wait for the course to be out of Beta.


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/BernardAda9

    Thank you – but what is Beta?


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Juha_Metsakallas

    Literally it is the second letter in the Greek alphabet, the first one is alpha. These letters are used in the early stages in software release life cycle. There are no strict definitions, but a general understanding what they mean. An alpha version is a very rude version giving an overview how to software is going to work. A beta version is feature complete but may contain errors.

    The Finnish course is in that beta stage. The tree is here, all exercise types are here but the text-to-speech system needs tweaking in some cases, the texts also.


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/w3WLnVmI

    You seem to know a lot! So I will ask you: will Duolingo eventually have the grammar and vocabulary information for ALL exercise sets? I liked them a lot in the first sets of exercises but now I don't see them anymore in the later ones. Thanks for any help you can give.


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Juha_Metsakallas

    Thank you, but I do not know all. To clarify: I am not a member of the developing team, just a fellow user.

    I have heard that there is a major update in progress, but the team wants to double check everything before publishing it. So they have not said when they will publish it. The update will likely contain more grammar but I have no idea if for all exercise sets.

    PS. There is an unofficial Discord group for this course. You might want to check it.


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/BernardAda9

    Thank you, Juha! I can manage the Greek alphabet, but I am worse than ignorant about software. I get the idea, though, and if there's anything that I can do to help I'l be only too pleased. I'm no nerd, just a translator.

    Taking up Zamlet's point below – I did quite a bit of serious Finnish years ago, having read Hungarian at university) and have let it go rusty, so to me this is all revision and revival. I wonder how far you can go introducing unexplained grammatical forms as vocabulary. I'm aware of the delights that lie ahead!


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/zamlet

    By that description, I'd say that the Duolingo Finnish course is currently at alpha stage, not beta, since it is nowhere near complete at this time. There are no tips or explanations at all for the later sections. That would fail my definition of "feature complete". :)

    I might add that I also would be happy to contribute to the course in some way if I can. My Finnish is only as good as the course so far can make it, but I will be happy to proofread the English if it is needed. I am a native speaker.

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