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  5. "Poni potkaisee velhoa."

"Poni potkaisee velhoa."

Translation:The pony kicks a wizard.

June 25, 2020

50 Comments


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/tfwalton

A wizard is never late. Neither is he ea--- pony kick to the face


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Barbara444899

Why is "the pony is kicking the wizard" marked incorrect?


[deactivated user]

    There is a fundamental difference between "kicks" and "is kicking". When you say "I am painting" the action takes some time. A kick takes only a short time, a moment. The phrase "is kicking" means repeated kicking. I don't think that is meant. Probably, one would say it differently if the pony was kicking during a period of time. Can one of the Finns help me out here? Could the Finnish phrase mean either a one-time kick or repeated kicks?


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Jileha
    • 1321

    In similar sentences, it was pointed out that there are two different forms of the verb "to kick", one used to describe a singular action (to kick), the other a continuing/repeated action (is kicking).

    cf. Wiktionary entry for "potkaista":

    Potkia expresses continuous kicking that is not temporally confined, whereas potkaista is a momentane verb, expressing one kick lasting only a short, transient moment.


    [deactivated user]

      Thank you very much. I should have checked wiktionary. By now I use it a lot (a lot, a lot). Guess I missed this one. Thank you!


      https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Rk5I3

      What you found is correct. In other words, "The pony is kicking the wizard" would be "Poni potkii velhoa."


      https://www.duolingo.com/profile/AndrBallon

      It is helpful. Kiitos


      https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Algizka

      Meanwhile in Finland...


      https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Sarelle93

      This has earned you a lingot. It made me actually laugh out loud.


      https://www.duolingo.com/profile/firerosearien

      Yikes shadowfax what did gandalf ever do to you?


      https://www.duolingo.com/profile/simon486678

      Shadofax on suuri hervosta. I heard of kicking up a storm, but this seems really really unwise


      https://www.duolingo.com/profile/AndrePeniche

      The wizard was doing just fine so far. PLOT TWIST


      https://www.duolingo.com/profile/tjperi

      What is the concept this sentence is trying to convey? As a native English speaker, the only natural way "the pony kicks a wizard" makes sense, is if it's part of some repeatable sequence of events, such as a skit being acted out, or a story being summarized. (e.g. "A pony stands in a field. A group of wizards taunt the pony. The pony kicks a wizard. End scene.") Is that what it means here?

      Or is it more like an event that occurred in the very recent past, like a second or two ago? That would be "the pony just kicked a wizard" or ""the pony kicked a wizard just now."

      If it refers to an event currently in progress, then "the pony is kicking a wizard" is a more accurate translation. If I were standing somewhere observing a pony and a wizard, and the pony then kicked the wizard, "the pony kicks a wizard" is not a natural way of describing what just happened.


      https://www.duolingo.com/profile/_Fyri_

      No one is asking, so I'm probably just still grasping partitive, but...is there a specific reason for velhoa and not velho or would velho also work here depending on context?


      https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Jileha
      • 1321

      velho is nominative. Theoretically, velhon would work, but it would change the meaning. See pieni_chilipalko’s answer in the discussion above :

      Do you mean "Poni potkaisee velhon"? You wouldn't use it in this case, unfortunately, since that would mean e.g. that the pony kicks the entire wizard... somewhere. "Poni potkaisee velhon kuuhun" - the pony kicks the wizard to the moon.


      https://www.duolingo.com/profile/_Fyri_

      Ah, yes, I read that, but I'm still uncertain why this is partitive and not nominative ("Velho"). I thought "Velhoa" would be unspecific "a/some wizard" and "Velho" was more specific "the wizard, which we've spoken of before." And also "kick" is not necessarily a continuous action like "paint/fix/wash." I wish duo had rules for the finnish partitive up for mobile! Heheh...


      https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Rk5I3

      This isn't related to whether the wizard is specific or just some wizard. It uses partitive just because it is the object of the sentence. The possible cases for the grammatical object in Finnish are partitive and genitive (if the verb isn't a special one that requires something else).


      https://www.duolingo.com/profile/_Fyri_

      Ah, I realize this may confusing--I know this translates here already to "a wizard" but in an different problem I swear it also accepted or said "the wizard." Maybe I'm wrong and it is "Velhoa" only because it means to say "a wizard"?


      https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Jileha
      • 1321

      You need to read the entire post. See pieni_chilipalko’s answer in the discussion above:

      The wizard part in "poni potkaisee velhoa" can be translated either as "the wizard" or "a wizard".


      https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Effenbamm

      Not a sentence I can imagine using IRL, but you never know!


      https://www.duolingo.com/profile/fluffyhnybadger

      I mean... if you've ever done the D&D campaigns I have, then this is pretty normal


      https://www.duolingo.com/profile/IanWitham1

      Poni potkaisee velhoa ja nyt se on kaarme


      https://www.duolingo.com/profile/pieni_chilipalko

      Could also say e.g. "Poni potkaisi velhoa ja on nyt käärme." With "se" you cannot really be sure whether it refers to the pony or the wizard. As it was the pony that was turned into a snake (I assume), and as it was the subject of the first clause, if you leave out the subject from the second clause it's assumed that the subject is the same in both clauses.

      "Poni potkaisi velhoa ja muuttui käärmeeksi" (turned into a snake)


      https://www.duolingo.com/profile/IanWitham1

      I thought I should write "se on" because it is the pony who is turned into a snake. In Duo, "he" and "she" are rarely used for animals in any courses, even if we know the animal's sex.

      Sometimes, I write something, not knowing if it is right or wrong, hoping to be corrected.


      https://www.duolingo.com/profile/pieni_chilipalko

      You can absolutely also use "se", or other pronouns, but it can always create a bit of confusion if you do. Especially, in this case, in spoken Finnish, where "se" also often refers to people. You do this kind of thing in English as well.

      "Tim hugged James and he left."

      Who left? Maybe James?

      If you instead write "Tim hugged James and left" it is assumed that it was Tim because there is no subject in the second clause, so it must be the same subject as in the first clause.


      https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Oxartum

      Only in Duolingo you can find these sentences lol.


      https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Dylan600886

      So if potkaista is a momentaine verb --a single instance, over and done-- why is velhoa still in partitive?

      And if the answer is "just is," I'm fine with that.


      https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Jileha
      • 1321

      The answer is given above, at least in implied form. Because the pony only kicks part of the wizard.

      See pieni_chilipalko’s answer in the discussion above :

      Do you mean "Poni potkaisee velhon"? You wouldn't use it in this case, unfortunately, since that would mean e.g. that the pony kicks the entire wizard... somewhere. "Poni potkaisee velhon kuuhun" - the pony kicks the wizard to the moon.


      https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Dylan600886

      I'm still confused, I'm afraid. Why is it not simply "poni potkaisee velho", since the kick is over and done with?


      https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Jileha
      • 1321

      Because the form ”velho” (nominative) is generally reserved for the subject of the sentence. In this sentence, it is the direct object, the person being kicked, not the kicker.

      We had other sentences such as ”Hän on velho”. Here, the verb ”olla” expresses that ”hän” and ”velho” are identical, A = B, and therefore both words are in nominative.


      https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Dylan600886

      Right. I think I get it now. Kiitos.


      https://www.duolingo.com/profile/zOas1

      Why "the wizard " is incorrect?


      https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Effenbamm

      Velhoa can mean any wizard, velhon would be a specific wizard and then " the wizard " would be more correct.


      https://www.duolingo.com/profile/pieni_chilipalko

      Do you mean "Poni potkaisee velhon"? You wouldn't use it in this case, unfortunately, since that would mean e.g. that the pony kicks the entire wizard... somewhere. "Poni potkaisee velhon kuuhun" - the pony kicks the wizard to the moon.

      The wizard part in "poni potkaisee velhoa" can be translated either as "the wizard" or "a wizard".


      https://www.duolingo.com/profile/epingchris

      So in the same vein, the only instances where one would say "Käärme puraisee velhon", would be if the snake bites the entire wizard... to pieces, for example? (Sorry for the imagery) Whereas normally "the snake bites the wizard" would be "käärme puraisee velhoa"?

      In short, the reason partitive is used here is because that these actions are usually considered to only act on "part" of the object, is that correct?


      https://www.duolingo.com/profile/JMD490388

      Once again my answer- like Barbara’s is marked wrong. I accept that the Finnish might mean something different. I just don’t accept that ‘the pony is kicking the wizard’ is really wrong at this level. It is the English I have problems with. I don’t accept that ‘kicks’ and ‘is kicking’ are fundamentally different here. If I saw a pony kicking a wizard( however unlikely that may be) I would never in a million years say the pony kicks the wizard. It just sounds wrong in English.


      https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Jileha
      • 1321

      I don’t find anything weird about it, except maybe the lack of a bit more information that would make it absolutely clear what happens.

      The pony kicks the wizard so hard that he falls over. The pony is kicking the wizard so hard that he finally falls over.

      The boy kicks the ball so hard that it flies over the fence. The boys are kicking the ball around.


      https://www.duolingo.com/profile/KristianKumpula

      "Potkaista" (the basic form of "potkaisee") expresses a single kick. "Is kicking", on the other hand, expresses continuous kicking, and therefore corresponds more closely to "potkii" (which would be "potkia" in its basic form), which also expresses continuous kicking.


      https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Oinophilos

      The sentence would easier to intuit if an adverb such as "usein" were inserted with a definite wizard. I can see this English sentence only as a stage direction or a narrative in historical present ( as in telling a joke or summarizing a plot).


      https://www.duolingo.com/profile/hoellfurk

      What's wrong with "The pony is kicking the wizard."?


      https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Jileha
      • 1321

      Read the discussion to find out.


      https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Durple_Purple

      You could get cursed from that!


      https://www.duolingo.com/profile/paul326846

      The could easily replace a and should be accepted


      https://www.duolingo.com/profile/WesleyThom17967

      Caring less about the grammar and more about mnemonics I visualize a potshot kick to the wizard's keister.


      https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Daragh266

      Can anyone explain why velho is partitive (velhoa)? Is it because the pony hasnt finished kicking the wizard?


      https://www.duolingo.com/profile/KristianKumpula

      "Potkaisee" expresses a single temporally confined kick, so it can't be an ongoing action, grammatically speaking. It triggers a partial object because it's considered an irresultative action since it doesn't necessarily result in some kind of transformation or relocation of the target of the action upon its completion. It would become a total object and thus trigger accusative case instead if there is something in the same clause expressing that a transformation or relocation does actually occur, for example "Poni potkaisee velhon kiertoradalle" (meaning "The pony kicks the wizard into orbit") or "Poni potkaisee velhon palasiksi" (meaning "The pony kicks the wizard into pieces").


      https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Daragh266

      I'm surprised i actually understood that, thank you very much!

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