1. Forum
  2. >
  3. Topic: Finnish
  4. >
  5. "Poika, joka juoksee tuolla, …

"Poika, joka juoksee tuolla, rakastaa tyttöä, jota sinä ihailet."

Translation:The boy, who is running over there, loves the girl whom you admire.

June 25, 2020

41 Comments


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/belliavesha

"over there" is not one word but two Also I believe, "who" instead of "whom" must be accepted too.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Liz968343

"Who" is used and abused a lot, but it wouldn't be grammatically correct here, so, no, "who" can't be accepted. You would say "I admire him" and not "I admire he", so, the same logic applies here: "girl WHOM I admire"


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Koneke

"Who" is replacing "whom" more and more, and is probably in more common usage among native speakers than "whom" at this point. Requiring the use of "whom" is just prescriptivism.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Bernard_Gang

Weirdly, there's also other questions where Duolingo doesnt accept "whom" when it should


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/AGreatUserName

A Duolingo course is not the place to enforce prescriptivism.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/JustinRoylance

Agreed! Who and that as well. No one says whom XD


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/liamtpw

Honestly I would just drop the 'whom' entirely. There is no need to mark it as a separate clause in English.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/AGreatUserName

It should accept all of "... the girl [who/whom/that/-] you admire" just to make sure all possibilities are covered.

"Whom" should remain in the suggested translation, not to appease the prescriptivists, but because it helps highlight the distinction between joka and jota.

By the way, even without the relative pronoun present, it's still a separate clause.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/paxpaquin

I like this Finnish sentence, which helps me distinguish "joka" from "jota". From a purely educational perspective, I think it is very useful to reflect that distinction in the English translation (i.e., "who" vs "whom").


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Jan-Olav

In writing it is possible to say 'Tuolla juokseva poika rakastaa ihailemaasi tyttöä'. Thus without relative clauses. Just as information but not worth learning at this stage.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/CyclOrBit

I guess that it´s not correct to write this way, without ´joka´.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Jan-Olav

It is indeed correct. 'Poika, joka juoksee tuolla' equals 'tuolla juokseva poika', which is followed by the predicate verb 'rakastaa'. The object clause 'tyttöä, jota sinä ihailet' equals 'ihailemaasi tyttöä'. But as I said, this would only be used in written language.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/CyclOrBit

Ah, okay. If you are sure of it.

It just sounded odd to me.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/TDphotography.fi

Who or whom, i think both should be accepted. We are learning Finnish here, not English, so they should be less strict on mistakes in the English language (there are many non native English speakers learning Finnish as well).


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Hacu.

I'd rather learn and sharpen all languages instead of learning a "wrong" or sloppy way of using any of them. Spoken language varies in many languages, so it's good to better oneself in proper grammar.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Anna145579

Could it also be accepted "... girl that you admire"?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/PetteriUSA

Same question. Anyone know?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Liz968343

"That" is used in spoken English, however, it is not grammatically correct to use "that" in reference to a person.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/AGreatUserName

... according to prescriptivists,


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Greetje548205

It's utterly confusing for non-native English speakers when false grammar is used in a language course. Spoken language is different but it's better to be as precise as possible in the written form. Whom is correct and we should therefore use it. Consistently, if possible.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/annika_a

Who is not "false grmmar" here. Both are correct and both are accepted (for the second one, the first one of course can't be whom).


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/CyclOrBit

What about punctuation? I noticed that in the Finnish language is really different than in other languages and not so logical to me.

Why is there a comma after Poika?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Liz968343

Finnish seems to share the same punctuation rules as Slavic languages have- relative clauses are set off by commas.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/sekondname

I know that Russian has an unusually large (to me) amount of commas in its sentences. We South Slavs don't put quite as many commas. The Serbian variation of Serbocroatian seems to have even fewer commas than the Croatian variation, at least in my experience.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/annika_a

not so logical to me.

Also not so logical to a lot of Finns. Finnish punctuation is hard. (Which I guess is why the English in this course had a loooot of extra commas when it was first launched.)


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Bill210940

Joka, jota, what's the difference?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/ClarkBHM

I had the same question. Can someone clarify?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Liz968343

Joka is nominative, jota- partitive form of joka. ”The boy, who is running... ”- joka juoksee, loves the girl whom you admire “rakastaa tyttöä, jota sinä ihailet”


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/sekondname

For everyone complaining about who/whom and prescriptivism: enforcing descriptivism is no better than enforcing prescriptivism. We're all united here with one cause: learning Finnish. For a lot of us, English isn't even the native language, and so, we are struggling with two foreign languages at once. Arguing about the one, that is less important in this course, is pointless. Don't waste your time, when you can learn more Finnish! :)


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/FrajoHaide

The question had the entire answer prefilled...


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/danielbelmiro

That's why people prefer the desktop version. It's much more challenging. I have to type more often. And in my case, I got this sentence as a "type what you hear" exercise, so it was quite challenging.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/JakaAurora

The answer was prefilled


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/jenwoodworth

The purpose of this sentence is to point out the difference between joka and jota, which is the difference between who and whom. Whether it's in common usage or not doesn't matter. "Whom" is the correct translation of "jota." "Who" should not be accepted.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/annika_a

Who is perfectly correct in both instances here.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/MatthewRosomaha

The boy running over there loves the girl whom you admire.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/simon486678

Whom is only obligate these days in rare and often formal situations, as in 'To whom do you wish to speak?'. Generally 'who' is used, even when, as in the dl phrase it is grammatically correct.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/simon486678

As a native speaker i would never dream of using whom in this sentence. Definitely archaic here.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/WesleyThom17967

I would be nice if the owl was more lenient. I suppose that might be asking too much of an owl though.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Mr.X952790

Is there anything wrong with my English translation the boy running over there loves the girl you admire? Is it too sloppy?

Learn Finnish in just 5 minutes a day. For free.