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  5. "He katselevat tuota maalaust…

"He katselevat tuota maalausta usein."

Translation:They are watching that painting often.

June 25, 2020

74 Comments


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Liz968343

One can watch a movie, a show, a sports game, but not a painting. "To watch a painting" isn't a natural/correct way to say it in English. Should be "They are looking at that painting often". Reported


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/espeket

I think also the progressive here is unnecessary. it should simply be "they look at that painting often"


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Oinophilos

Absolutely. "Often" signals the simple tense.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/DavidVicto622329

You can watch a painting to make sure no one steals it.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/jlinsitges

True, but without context the other meaning comes to mind first. If the painting is being guarded it seems the correct verb would be vahtia not katsella. Correct me if I'm wrong, moderator!


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/DavidVicto622329

How about if one "watches" a painting to catch the moment it gets put up for sale? Same word?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/kai_paulden

Yes; or 'keep an eye on' a painting, to see what happens to it.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/jaiirapetjan

Agreed. The same thing about guarding it. I wouldn't say I was watching it, that makes me think we are expecting the subjects in the painting might start moving; but perhaps watching over it, keeping an eye on it, guarding it, etc.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Disco76534

Yeah, you would think that at least one native speaker would have checked this before going to beta...


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Seannaesean

This doesn't make sense in English


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/JamesRitch14

Nobody watches a painting. That's ridiculous. Secondly, the -ing form of the verb is highly unusual. They look at that painting often.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/balpers

The only way the English version of this sentence makes any sense is if the painting somehow changes or moves. Dorian Gray may watch his painting as it changes. And a guard may watch a painting, lest a thief steal it.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/DavidHough15

I second this and the other comments about watching versus looking at. You watch something that can potentially change. You look at whatever, including things that change. You can watch or look at a game (though the latter implies disinterest in the game). You look at a painting, unless, like the picture of Dorian Gray, you think the painting might change (or be stolen, which is a variety of change).

To watch something is to be alert for change in it. To look at it is to observe its static qualities.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Letitia199358

Maybe the Finnish sentence could be rearranged so the English sentence is more natural - so they often look at the/that painting? just a thought


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/-Tigress-

umm....trying to figure this sentence out :/

Is it the same as looking at that painting often?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/IanWitham1

I would say "They often look at that painting."

Usually, we look at things that are not moving (paintings, statues, buildings, etc.) and we watch things that are moving (TV shows, children, animals, and soccer games)

However, if they are security guards, I would say, "They watch that painting."


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Oinophilos

Yes, we watch moving things or things that might move or change.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/AnUnicorn

I suggested "observe" since it implies a greater intensity than "look at", while still sounding more natural than "watching a painting."


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/kai_paulden

To me, 'observing' implies looking at the painting as a whole, rather than delving into the content in detail. Similarly, one can 'observe' a situation; to look more closely would be to 'look' or 'examine' the situation.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Anna839191

Yeah, it's the same!


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/-Tigress-

: ) thank you! : )


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/simon486678

No. And the difference which has been discussed is interesting. Watching implies that the thing that is being watched might or will change (watching a movie; watching tv; watching the clouds go by).

Looking does not have that. So you look at a building, but watch a car race. Static things are looked at. Dynamic things are watched.

Interesting. I hadn't looked at that before. I'll watch it in future.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/tjperi

The English sentence needs to be changed to "They look at that painting often." or "They view that painting often." You "view" a painting or you "look at" a painting, but you don't "watch" a painting. Watching a painting sounds like you're making sure nobody steals it.

Also, "often" usually doesn't go with the progressive present (a verb with -ing), except if you're talking about a recurring action within another set of circumstances, like "Whenever I see them at the museum, they are often viewing that painting." The "are viewing" gets taken out of general context and put into the specific recurring context of seeing them there. I'm probably doing a terrible job of explaining this.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Rauri17

My thoughts too. To 'look at' something is only a brief moment of turning your eyes to it. That's probably why they chose 'watching because it implies length of time and attention. But viewing is a word that means paying attention to something that is still.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/kivikoti

Please change this. How can you mark a correct answer wrong and show this completely incorrect answer as the model? The correct translation is "They often look at that painting." To boot, one loses a heart for answering correctly. Absurd! But then, the whole idea of hearts and punishing learners for mistakes is absurd.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Henryvirallinen

Do lessons on the web browser instead of mobile apps. It doesn't have the heart limitation, yet....


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/jlinsitges

Interesting that in Discuss they've removed the option for "The English sentence is wrong or unnatural"....


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Henryvirallinen

This is still waiting to be fixed: 1) We never say "watch" a painting , perhaps except for specific cases such as watching/guarding the painting from burglars 2) The present continuous form of the verb paint and "often" do not go together in the same sentence. That doesn't make sense.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/kojakojo

I'm glad I came here to check the comments, although 'They often look at that painting' is now also a correct translation -well, it is a more appropriate English translation, as everyone is pointing out.

It even made me think Duolingo was trying to trick us with yet another quirky sentence! I thought: 'Hold on, maybe they 'are watching' the painting on an online auction site because they want it so much and are anticipating to place a bid!'


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/fiderallala

I am still being marked wrong with that translation.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Sarah803697

Yep, same as fiderallala, I put "They often look at that painting" (7th March 2021) and was marked incorrect. Duolingo has regressed?! Reported.

If they wanted us to translate in a way that the painting's about to sell (i.e. a situation where one MIGHT actually be watching, rather than looking at, a painting), then they need to give a clue, like the Finnish for "The hopeful buyers often watch the painting."


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/BarryBryce

As well the relevant verb being "look", not "watch", the progressive tense is inappropriate.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/BeeBalmFirefly

I see plenty of people have reported the English translation, but I'm about to do the same. I favor "They often look at that painting" or "they look at that painting often" as a replacement.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/pieni_chilipalko

Note that leaving a comment here is not the same thing as reporting. If you want to officially report something and make sure the team sees it, click on the flag and leave a comment there. :)


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/BeeBalmFirefly

I did. Although, some people may not realize it, so it's always good to have mention of it. I didn't realize I was able to leave a comment when I reported. I've only ever seen the option to select which category of report it falls into. Perhaps I missed it. In the meantime, In the past few months, I've taken to both reporting it and commenting in the discussion as to why I reported it. that way it's hopefully easier for the person checking my flag to infer what I was trying to flag in the first place. I will definitely check for a place to leave comments when I report something next time! thanks!


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/jlinsitges

Quite right. The reporting system is very basic and does not allow to say what went wrong. In many cases the option "The sentence in (Language) is wrong or unnatural" does not appear and this is often where the problem is.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/ElspethMac7

This is very stilted English. You WATCH a movie, or a show, but you LOOK AT a painting. The other thing that makes it stilted is putting the word often at the end of the sentence. In English you would put it before the verb - therefore "They are often looking at that painting", or "They often look at that painting."


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/DavidHough15

Interesting. I'm a native speaker of English and I find nothing wrong with the position of often. It must be a dialectal thing.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/MarionWall7

They have still not corrected this sentence after all the consistent comments.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/BethK

I agree with everyone who has said that "watching" a painting doesn't happen in English. But I decided to go with Duo's translation of the word as "watch" and tried "they watch that painting often," which was also marked wrong. "They look at that painting often" was accepted.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/waterbeards

as others have noted, in English you wouldn't really say "watch" for a static object like a painting, rather "look at".

Moreover, present-time habitual verbs in English are usually rendered with simple present tense, e.g. "they look at" rather than "they are looking at" (cf. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/English_markers_of_habitual_aspect) apart from in certain specific dialects.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Frances942049

I agree with the statement below about watching versus looking at.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/MarionWall7

I agree with Liz, Espeket and several others


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Polyglot71

"They look at that painting often," is a better translation. No one "watches" a painting.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/keithdavis19

Watch it in case it runs off?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/simon486678

So: runny paint(ing)?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Bonnielsama

One does not simply WATCH a painting


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/crowdesign

"They view that painting often" or "They often view that painting" would be more natural in English.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Erin181519

May 2021, almost June, still we are all watching this painting


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Sarah803697

Easily the worst translation of this course, I reckon. And I don't think we're in beta any more?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/SteveA.B.

They often gaze at that painting as if they were planning a heist in an episode of Lupin.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Sarah803697

Ooh, yes - TO GAZE. Best translation suggested so far, I reckon.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/MissMuse

What does this mean, unless you're planning for the perfect moment to steal it?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Nicoletta236013

It should be: "They are looking at the painting often" .


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/DavidHough15

As someone else said above, often doesn't go with present continuous verbs in English. Often describes an event recurring multiple discrete times. The present continuous -- are X-ing -- describes a single event without an explicit beginning or end. These are incompatible. If you say they are looking at the painting often this sounds odd. It makes sense, I suppose, if you mean something like they keep glancing at the painting. Still, they often look at the painting would be better in this case.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Sarah803697

It was my understanding that the verb katsella was to watch ... hence deciding that to gaze would be a better translation, here. However, if it also means to look at, then that makes a better translation, too. Anything but to watch XD !


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/DavidHough15

Given the discomfort English speakers have with the English translation of this sentence, and assuming the Finnish sentence itself is idiomatic Finnish, I can only assume to watch isn't an entirely accurate translation of katsella.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/KristianKumpula

I can only assume to watch isn't an entirely accurate translation of katsella.

Actually it is, but not in this context. For example to watch television can be translated as katsella televisiota. It could also be translated as katsoa televisiota. The latter is more attentive watching.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/DavidHough15

The important thing is that watch is more semantically restricted, it appears, than katsella. At least we have found a context where katsella can be used but watch cannot. So by this we demonstrate that neither is an entirely accurate translation of the other.

You can watch a painting being made. You can watch a painting go through a shredder. But English speakers with an ordinary understanding of paintings and museums don't speak of going to a museum to watch the paintings.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/simon486678

@sarah. Does finnish have the distinction found in english, so interestingly discussed, between watch and view?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Sarah803697

As a native speaker of English, that is not a sentence construction I would ever employ. After all these months of considering this sentence, and seeing all the various comments, I've come to the conclusion that the most natural would be "They often gaze at the painting" or They frequently gaze at the painting."


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/TarjaVermeer

A couple of things: 1. You usually do not watch that painting, but you are looking at that painting. This should be the correct answer. 2. Often can be located in two places in English: They are often looking at the painting or they are looking at the painting often. Both should be correct. 3. This sentence can also be translated with "They look at the painting often./They often look at the painting" Both should be correct too


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/simon486678

Sarah, I think gaze implies an intensity of concentration, which look does not have. It's casual or not.

But I agree it's obviously better than 'watch'. I think 'view' is possibly the best variant in english.

So maybe "They often view that painting" is the correct translation?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Franco_Steam

At another example sentence, selling a building wasn't in partitive. The explanstion was that it is one building, countable, therefore not partitive. It is the same case here, yet it is in partitive. Why?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Boarcas

This is the case of an irresultative verb. The action doesn't lead to any particular result (the watching is never "completed"). These require partitive.

Selling can actually be both, because it can also be an ongoing action, which might not lead to anything.

Myyn talon (I sell a house, transaction will be completed)

Myyn taloa (I am selling a house, currently selling, might not be successful)


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Susan278145

This translation is unnatural, you don't watch a painting, you look at it.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Aixiae

is "observing" an optional translation for that verb? Like "looking at" or would that require a different verb?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Linda406150

I don’t know what this translation means . I’m thinking it is a poor translation


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Katzuh

The English translation needs changing. You cannot watch a picture (unless you're guarding it). They should be LOOKING at the picture.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/KeithPotte6

The English translation is a very odd one. A security guard might be employed to watch a painting and might be described as watching a painting often. A visitor to a gallery would not be described as watching a painting but as looking at it and might well look at it often.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/KeithPotte6

The English translation is a very odd one. A security guard might be employed to guard a painting and might be described as watching it often. A visitor to a gallery would simply look at a painting, whether often or simply once.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/AndrBallon

Moi What is the difference between tuo and tuota ? Kiitos !


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Liz968343

Tuota is the partitive form of tuo


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/molesworth_2

Why is"they are often watching that painting" incorrect? Putting aside the fact that in English " watching" has a different connotation, the word "often" can move around, but miss often it goes before the verb, and only at the end when it's a question. This phrasing is awkward.

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