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"Many young Finns speak Japanese."

Translation:Moni nuori suomalainen puhuu japania.

June 28, 2020

41 Comments


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/ukmonkey121

Why is this sentence in singular and not plural? "Monet nuoret suomalaiset puhuvat"


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Anna839191

Monet suomalaiset and moni suomalainen mean the same thing and are both correct translations for many Finns. Just cause the English sentence is in plural doesn't mean that the Finnish sentence has to be if the meaning is the same. But obviously both should be accepted


[deactivated user]

    Leaving english aside, are you saying "many Finns" is singular? Thanks! What about "a million Finns"? Thanks!


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Jan-Olav

    It would be 'miljoona suomalaista puhuu japania' just the same way as other numerals.


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/PetteriUSA

    I think a better English translation here would be, "Many a young Finn speak Japanese".


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Jileha
    • 1319

    Except nobody says this, and even in written form it is very outdated.


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/PetteriUSA

    Agreed. Perhaps a better way to just to understand how the Finnish is structured in a way where the word many is used with a singular word like Finn. I'm not sure if either form is considered outdated in modern Finnish or not.


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Jileha
    • 1319

    The singular version is more formal than the plural version according to the Wikipedia article, which didn’t say anything about it being outdated.


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Anna839191

    It's not outdated! Moni is used in formal texts but in other contexts both are used.


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Pippa169695

    I would say it. :)


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/micahnewman

    From the Tips page for this lesson:

    Singularly many The pronoun moni, “many”, is inflected in both number and case. This means it has a singular form, which is followed by a verb in the singular, although in the corresponding English translation both are in the plural. If moni, the nominative singular form of the word, begins a sentence, you are dealing with a generalisation. Therefore, the continuous form (ing form) of the verb is not possible in the English translation. If you have trouble sticking to the singular, the now old-fashioned structure many a + noun may be of some assistance. As in “many a wordy jest”, an expression found in A Christmas Carol by Charles Dickens.

    Moni suomalainen puhuu sujuvaa englantia. Many Finns speak fluent English/Many a Finn speaks fluent English.


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/demoographics

    Or, indeed, the partitive, since it's some Finns?


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Jan-Olav

    No, partitive isn't correct here because moni suomalainen is the subject of the sentence.


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Irina657545

    This os a great app and I'm very thankful for it but I also have German and Spanish courses and as compared to them Finnish is very frustrating,because there are no tips, and in my native language there is almost no information on Finnish grammar and stuff, i hate to guess the rules but I have to. And also just for fun I chose Finnish/Eng study and it's not that fun, though challenging, cause English is not my native


    [deactivated user]

      There are tips


      https://www.duolingo.com/profile/FreyBehr

      Not on the mobile app. I heard there is on the computer, but haven't checked.


      [deactivated user]

        True, but you can still see them on your phone via browser. They are very good.


        https://www.duolingo.com/profile/LTCLinguas

        But you can also try to learn like a child learns a language, which implies precisely guessing the rules... and mimicking. You may find it really helps in "feeling" the language, as opposed to rationalizing it.


        https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Tchaya13

        I agree totally. That's why I love Duolingo


        https://www.duolingo.com/profile/MNParnasso

        dl's reiterative exercises ideally suit the immersion experience as a native finnish child may conventionally grow up with, and while even helpful in reinforcing a language like latin, conversely i wonder whether its child-like recursive exercise experience sufficiently encompasses grasping the declension or conjugation structures required for ancient, dead, or extinct languages.


        https://www.duolingo.com/profile/TheSnowKing

        Tips are limited to the website for many of the languages.


        https://www.duolingo.com/profile/acmodeu

        Is that really true? :)


        https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Vesa29985

        I think "many" in this sentence is very relative. Comparing old people and young, then many young speaks Japanese. Comparing how many speaks English vs Japanese, then not so many.

        "Many" young watches anime, so they might have got the interest there. However, my high school didn't have an option to study Japanese, university had only A1 level (most basic). So I would be surprised if you travel to Finland and find any finnish person speaking Japanese.


        https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Tanberian

        Anime is very popular. Also tje Japanese culture is appealing to most of us. But I dare to say not many actually speak fluent Japanese or can read it.


        https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Pippa169695

        Why is this not plural?


        https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Antti546484

        It can also be plural.


        https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Anna571443

        Sorry. I had the same question as ukmonkey. Just noticed. Thanks.


        https://www.duolingo.com/profile/JipsonK

        Seems more than one correct answer


        https://www.duolingo.com/profile/RobbieWalk15

        Monta nuorta suomalaista? What did i get wrong with this translation?


        https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Taurelve

        'Monta nuorta suomalaista' is in the partitive. This sentence needs the nominative, 'Moni nuori suomalainen'. The subject of sentences seems to be mostly in the nominative.


        https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Cian115364

        This is very confusing. I really thought it was third person plural, so puhuvat. The rules are opaque.


        https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Vesa29985

        I think "monet nuoret suomalaiset puhuvat japania" should also be accepted, but as seen, that requires every word in that sentence to be modified to plural form


        https://www.duolingo.com/profile/TheSnowKing

        Think of this as the outdated English phrase "Many a young Finn speaks Japanese".


        https://www.duolingo.com/profile/LTCLinguas

        On the other hand, it looks like a great way to teach us that, in Finnish, this type of sentence can use singular.


        https://www.duolingo.com/profile/OskarLearns

        I have never heard moni singular in my life


        https://www.duolingo.com/profile/N.B.933048

        Why the use of partitiivi for japaani? I don't get it.


        https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Taurelve

        I believe 'puhuu' always takes a partitive language. The tips say something about no one being able to speak a whole language.

        https://www.duolingo.com/skill/fi/Languages-2/tips-and-notes


        https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Howard860606

        To me "many" is a number and I expected partitive. So how would you say "Three young Finns Speak Japanese?" Google says "Kolme nuorta suomalaista puhuu japania" - but Google's not perfect!


        https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Vesa29985

        In this case, Google translation sounds correct.

        I'm sorry I cannot give you a rule or reasoning, but "kadulla seisoo monta nuorta suomalaista" (=there is many young Finns standing on the street) sounds ok, so it depends on the case.


        https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Gribby4

        Since Duolingo offers absolutely no clarification other than a 'correct' or 'incorrect,' It would be easier to understand/learn how to properly use the word 'moni' if you made the english translation into 'Many a young finn speaks japanese.' It's a better translation, because it works similarly; with the use of moni, the rest of the sentence stays singular. In English, when you use 'Many a' the rest of the sentence stays singular despite there being multiple subjects, just like moni. I think this would improve learning while sticking to Duolingo's avoidance of clarity and explanations.

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