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  5. "Two men from Berlin are watc…

"Two men from Berlin are watching a French movie together."

Translation:Kaksi berliiniläistä miestä katselee yhdessä ranskalaista elokuvaa.

July 2, 2020



Could yhdessä be placed at the end of this sentence? 'Kaksi berliiniläistä miestä katselee ranskalaista elokuvaa yhdessä.'

Does syntax matter here with the placement of 'yhdessä'?


It works just fine with 'yhdessä' at the end too. I think these two are the only good places for this word, basically you could also start the sentence with it but it sounds slightly unnatural or poetic, then. And then of course you can't put the adverb between an adjective and noun/subject.


why not katselevat?


Seems like it's a rule with numbers. "Miehet katselevat", but "kaksi miestä katselee". This is just what I got from Duolingo.


Yes, that's true! Numerals greater than 1 always make the nouns act as if they were in singular! They also usually take the partitive case as well.

A mental image to help remember that: You can either have one (1) whole man or all the men in the world, but when you have something between 1 and all, it's not a whole, hence PARTitive.


in Finnish there is grammatical agreement between the subject and the verb, and since the subject is in the singular grammatically, so the verb must be in the singular as well.


Any difference between katsella and katsoa?


Not really in this context. Katsella is maybe a bit softer or wider as a term, I'm not exactly sure how to put that into words in English, but fortunately Wiktionary has an answer to us:

Katsella expresses less attentive watching than katsoa.

So this could mean that they are watching the movie and e.g. having a light conversation meanwhile :)

[deactivated user]

    Berlinalaista is more Berliner men or Berlin Men. Its rather derived to say rhe men from Berlin, this would be kaksi miestä berliinistä. A previous question translated Pariisilainen as parisienne which is correct, notice it wasnt the woman from Paris. This really should be consistent

    • 1412

    I wonder how many native English speakers would understand "Berliner" to mean the sweet bun above anything else... The idea of two Berliners watching a French film together is really cute though.

    [deactivated user]

      I am not sure why people downvoted this question. It is not a bad question or offensive in any way. I upvoted one tic and I invite others to do the same until zero. That should be enough for the language people to be able to find it.

      I am not saying anything about the contents of this question, just about the downvotes.


      I agree. Upvoted for the same reason. I also think the contents of the question are on point, because translating this type of construction with "from" IS a bit misleading, especially if it's not done consistently.


      It cannot be done consistently because English is not consistent in this respect.

      In Finnish, all places can have a -lainen appended to them as a noun or adjective. In English a male Parisian is a Parisian man but a male Berliner can only be called a man from Berlin.

      I know it's stupid but English is stupid.


      That's also why I didn't know what to say to this because my native language is Finnish and I'm not sure how common those are in English. There was another sentence where someone said it's totally fine to say "A New York(er) man" and such in English but that's really what only a native can confirm as correct and I'm pretty sure it depends on regions or even countries, plus it wouldn't work with most non-English city names anyway. "Berliner" still works because that's what it is also in German (since they have the same -er suffix as English too) but you can't say e.g. "Helsinkier".

      But I agree, we shouldn't downvote just for typos and such, at least not without explaining at first what caused the emotion behind such action. I've also noticed people downvoting comments just because they disagree with you for something even if it would be about facts but when those facts don't please them, they downvote... (There was one by me that I still to this day cannot understand what was so wrong about that and I was talking about Finland and Finnish facts as a native Finn to a non-Finn :D)


      But as gbonnema said, legitimate and polite queries shouldn't be downvoted for containing mistakes


      Two men from Berlin could also be Kaksi miestä Berliinistä. It's ambiguous whether they are Berliners or two men who arrived from Berlin (who may be Finnish, Swedish, from Mars..)


      What determines where "yhdessä" goes in this sentence? Why would it be wrong to put it at the end of the sentence after "elokuvaa"?


      It should be correct! Here's all possible and still natural sounding word orders for the word 'yhdessä':

      • Yhdessä kaksi berliiniläistä miestä katselee ranskalaista elokuvaa.
      • Kaksi berliiniläistä miestä katselee yhdessä ranskalaista elokuvaa.
      • Kaksi berliiniläistä miestä katselee ranskalaista elokuvaa yhdessä.

      The difference is in the importance of the words - the earlier it appears, the more important it is. The first one stresses the fact they watch it together; the second one is very neutral and the last one makes the movie more important than the fact they watch it together.

      (In poems you might see 'yhdessä' before 'katselee' but I didn't include it because of that, it's not used in written nor spoken language unless sometimes in poems or lyrics.)


      Kaksi meistä berliiniläistä? Or is it not a direct translation of "from Berlin"?


      From Berlin = Berliinistä.

      It would be possible to say Kaksi miestä Berliinistä..., but that would sound odd to me in this context.

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