31 Comments
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Does the word order change the emphasis in this sentence? I often notice that I understand Italian sentences, but would intuitively put the words in a different order. For example, for this sentence I would rather say "Io ho tentato oggi". I know that it is not wrong, but it seems in Italian that's not the preferred word order. I'm grateful for any hints regarding that topic. :)
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You're quite right :) It would sound good with a ci in there as well (which you may not have learned yet) or di (infinitive).... There are a lot of different ways to phrase a thought and two main reasons you'll see different word orders: to start you off with something relatively familiar and also to show you how to place emphasis on different ideas.
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Thanks! :) I think I have trouble recognizing where the emphasis goes in that structure that I am not so familiar with... what is emphasized in "Io oggi ho tentato" opposed to my two obvious choices "Oggi ho tentato io" and "io ho tentato oggi"?
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I agree the word order seems strange, with 'oggi' where it is. I noticed they did the same thing with 'dove' in another sentence. Sorry I cannot answer your question on emphasis.
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I also would like to know what is being emphasized. Does anyone have an idea?
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I understand that the last word is being emphasized. "Io ho tentato oggi" emphasizes "oggi", that is, the time or period when the person did the action. "Oggi ho tentato io" emphasizes "io", that is, the person who did the action. "Io oggi ho tentato" emphasizes "tentato", that is, the verb / the action that the person performed today. Hope this helps.
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Italians seem also to choose between possible word synonyms, word orders, qui/qua, li/la simply for this reason: to make the sentence sound well and easy to pronounce. So, I don't worry! Trying to recognize what sounds well.
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I didn't get this either :-( Found this in a search :-D ....hope it's right :-/
"Provare a + infinitivo = to try to (as in to attempt something - I can try to ask but I am not sure she will listen).
Tentare di + infinitivo = to try to (same meaing as provare a + infinitivo)"
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"provare" means trying to do something relying on reasoning
"tentare" means trying to do something relying on luck
I would recommend always using "provare", which is definitely the most used
The only sentence that comes to my mind where you have to use "tentare" is:
"tentare la fortuna" (try your luck)
when you buy a lottery ticket you could say: "tento la fortuna" (not "provo la fortuna")
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Wouldn't correct english translation be "i tried today" instead of "i have tried today" (even though "i have tried" is a literal translation)? I know that Italians use present perfect pretty much like past simple but if we're translating these sentences to english, it should be right.. and this is not the only example where present perfect is used wrong (in english, not italian). Right?
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If the time period is still unfinished (and the word "today" indicates an unfinished time period), you should definitely use "Present Perfect Tense". So, " I have tried it today" is the only grammatically correct English. On the other hand, with finished time periods, we use 'Past Simple Tense", so with the word 'yesterday' , 'two days ago', or 'last week', we would say for example 'I tried it yesterday, but it didn't work." Plus, you have noticed that I inserted the word 'it' after the verb, since the verb 'try' is usually transitive, which means that it should be followed by an object (= we should say what we have tried).
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I reckon, "I tried today" should also be accepted, but I haven't tried DL with it yet. Maybe next time I get this question!
"I today have tried" May sound unusual but it has the same meaning and is acceptable.
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Then it would be " L'ho tentato oggi" or "L'ho oggi tentato" where Lo is the direct object, I think
An Italian would still understand me if I said "Io ho tentato oggi", wouldn't he or she?
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Not only it is understandable, but in many contexts it is the most natural order:
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"[Io] Oggi ho tentato [di..]" (no particular emphasis) is the natural word order when introducing the subject.
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"Ho tentato oggi" can be used when the subject has already been established and you want stress "oggi" (e.g. A: "Tu quando hai tentato?" B: "Ho tentato oggi").
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"Oggi ho tentato io", again, can be used when the subject has been established and you want to stress "io" (e.g. A: "Ieri tentato di capire la relatività" B: "Oggi ho tentato io").
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So I translated it as "Today I tried it" which is a little weird in English but not grammatically incorrect, and perfectly comprehensible. DL said it's wrong, and I can't decide if it just doesn't like the slightly unusual phrasing in English or whether there's something else subtle going on.
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You added the word 'it' to your answer, which isn't in the Italian sentence.
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Dear Diary: Today I tried. Who dares, wins, right?
Keep trying, people! You'll get there
