"Après ce jour, ils ne se sont plus jamais parlé."

Translation:After this day, they never spoke to each other again.

July 6, 2020

37 Comments
This discussion is locked.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Seattle_Scott

After THAT day...


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Stick.to.it

Yes! "After this day" doesn't make sense in English when referring to a date in past.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/LouiseRobi2

I totally agree!


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Jennie269348

Same here. Silly way of saying it. Those computers need a reboot!


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/RoslynJS

Agreed. Reported via flag Aug 2020.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/MatthewB6

Why not "ils ne se sont plus jamais parlés"? Is there not usually number/gender agreement with être in the passé composé?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/--Roody--

This is a case where a reflexive verb doesn't agree....

Quotation from Lawless French:

"4) Indirect object reflexive pronouns => No agreement

For 20 verbs, the reflexive pronoun is always an indirect object regardless of any nouns in the sentence. Therefore, the past participle of these verbs never agrees with the reflexive pronoun.

Why is this? Because when these verbs are used non-pronominally with a noun, they require a preposition, which means the noun is an indirect object. So when that preposition + object are replaced by a reflexive pronoun, the pronoun too is indirect."

[Se parler is then listed as one of 20 verbs.]

https://www.lawlessfrench.com/grammar/agreement-with-pronominal-verbs/

This is very technical for our skill level. I'm just trying to get in my mind that the participle agrees with a direct object, but not with an indirect object pronoun.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/MatthewB6

Thanks - that's helpful. One day I hope to be comfortable with all these finicky rules!


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Hwin_74

wow! Thanks! Here's a lingot!


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Roger340259

I agree. After etre in the perfect tense, the past participle should agree with the subject?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/GraemeSarg

Only for the score or so verbs which actually congregate with "être".

All other verbs: reflexive and pronominal verbs and verbs which conjugate with "avoir" only agree with a Preceding Direct Object.

Of course, for the vast majority of reflexive verbs the reflexive pronoun is a Preceding Direct Object, and since the reflexive pronoun necessarily agrees with the Subject they coincidentally seem to agree with the Subject.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/BeSafeDear

this exercise has so many mistakes. It's annoying!


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/doublelingot

It should be "After that day, they never spoke again."


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/-BigWayne19-

------- not, "... never spoke any more ..." ? . . .

Big 28 jul 20


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Papapukypo

Why is the verb parler paired with etre and not avoir? Shouldn't it be "ils ne s'ont plus jamais parle?"


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/pakjim

Here, the verb is se parler, to talk to each other. All verbs like this take être.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Papapukypo

I see. Thanks for the clarification!


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/John54715

Why do you need the "plus"?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/doublelingot

not... again --> ne... plus


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Dmitri47485

Or better still - nevermore.
Quoth the Raven, “Nevermore.”


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/--Roody--

I don't understand why they spoke in the passé composé tense. Since the action takes place over a very long time period (never again), it seems like the imparfait tense would be a better choice.

The only reason I can think of is that the action (not talking) continues into the present time, and imparfait tense is supposed to.start and stop in past time. But that seems a little too technical an explanation.

If anybody has figured this out, I would love to read an explanation!


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/slowsummits

good question

after thinking about it, i'm not sure the double negation of plus + jamais makes sense in the imparfait.

try writing out the english equivalents:

the sentence which is being negated: "they would speak to one another" "plus" equivalent negation: "they used to speak to one another regularly, but they no longer do" "jamais" equivalent negation: "they never used to speak to one another"

can the latter two meanings be combined? i can't think of anything that makes sense.

whereas in the passé composé it's obvious: the combined negation means that after that day, there was never an occasion on which they spoke to one another, but at some point before that day, there was.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/--Roody--

Merci slowsummits. Your reasoning shows that passé composé tense is needed here. This explanation fits in with the notion that imparfait tense definitely stopped in the past time, but passé composé can continue into the present time.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/GraemeSarg

I disagree.

We know that it is NOT true that they never used to speak to each other. The silence only occurred after that day.

The imperfect is correct here and I think it is in fact the only correct tense.

If the silence has continued into the here and now, then this should be expressed as "Since that day, they have never spoken to each other again.". And that would require passé composé.

The phraseology "After that day, they never spoke to each other again." only makes sense if one or both of the protagonists has died or is otherwise unable to terminate the silence. And in that circumstance I believe that l'imparfait is the only appropriate choice.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/pakjim

After that day, they never spoke to each other any more.
ne....plus = not anymore OR not again


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/RichardSus4

I wrote, never spoke to one another, instead of to each other--in English same meaning--should be accepted


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/jillhibberd

Surely it should be after that day!!!??? This whole exercise is ungrammatical throughout!


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/HelenBeck2

that is exactly what I wrote and it was marked wrong


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Bekir978479

"again" can be omitted.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Crotchet

I agree Bekir, but when I omitted it, I was marked wrong. The use of 'ne...plus' as well as 'jamais' probably justifies the use of 'again.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Hwin_74

You are correct!

They never spoke to each other! could mean they never ever spoke to each other... and that would contain jamais!! The plus'' adds anymore/again... so to retain context you cannot leave out again in the ENGLISH translation.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Michael-111

After this day, they never spoke to each other anymore. Why is this rejected?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Hwin_74

I am try really hard to recollect a sentence with anymore(i am assuming you did not mistakenly write any more) and a verb in the PAST tense..properly used.

he does not come by anymore... he did not come by again(does anymore really fit in the 2nd).. i am not sure.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/tforsyth56

« After this day … » is not how native speakers would refer to a day in the past; they would say « after that day… ».

It makes you wonder how Duolingo goes about determining a translation.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Anniedrip

Surely ne ..plus is anymore - encore is again?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/GraemeSarg

And "ne … plus jamais" is "never again".


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/JakeFoxy

In english, "this" day usually refers to "today," which would not give any time to analyze what happened in the future as it sounds as if that that event happened today. So we still dont know what happened after today...

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