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"Nederland en België zijn de enige landen met grachten."

Translation:The Netherlands and Belgium are the only countries with grachten.

August 6, 2014

65 Comments


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Susande

I was really hoping for The Netherlands and Belgium are the only countries with canals. to be the preferred translation of this sentence...


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Soglio

Lots of countries have canals, but perhaps only the Netherlands and Belgium have grachten. ;-)


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Susande

Maybe you should read my post again and think a smiley at the end. :)


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Soglio

Sorry, I did get a bit fascinated with grachten, but I also thought a smiley at the end. Probably I should have ended mine with a smiley, as well. Here's one now. :-)


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Repelsteeltje

Indeed! Gothenborg in Sweden has canals too, made by the Dutch...


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/romogo1

bruh whats wrong with your language courses have you hacked duolingo?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/schiffmeister

That is what I translated it into, and it was wrong, which strikes me as funny.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Petri502369

I do agree with you. I ask my husband, who is from England, and even he said "grachten" is not the right word. But....................................:)


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Linda385589

I did just that, and it was accepted. In fact, the word "canals" was included in the word bank.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Yoel.

I had to look this up: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gracht

A gracht is a canal with streets on both sides of the water. In this sense the sentence might be true if we exclude atypical cities like Venice.

A nice example:


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/LizaBochkareva

In that case I guess Saint-Petersburg in Russia should qualify as a city with grachten. Besides, it was built by Peter the Great after he had returned from Holland, fascinated by everything Dutch. :)


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Dmikon

Yes, and it is indeed the example of an atypical city for the country. Like the aforementioned Venice and Gothenborg.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/tenaaq

I'm not sure if Venice qualifies for "having grachten" since it doesn't really have streets on both sides of canals but only houses - as far as I can recall. :P


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/ilmolleggi

Most cities with rivers have streets on both sides: think Paris, Lyon, Budapest, Vienna, Prague etc.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/magnutsch

A canal is not a river :D


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/GonzaIillo

The Canal Saint-Martin in Paris is indeed a canal, with streets on both sides. Canal du midi in Toulouse is another famous example but there are thousands of canals with streets on both sides all around Europe.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Grodmannen

But a "gracht" is a city canal, which disqualifies Canal du Midi.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/GonzaIillo

You're right, maybe it would be a gracht inside the city if it only changed name once outside. Let's say the Canal de Brienne then, to stay in Toulouse. My point was that they exist by hundreds everywhere. It could be that the one writing the sentence only meant it as a joke, meaning that in no other place they'd use the word "gracht" itself.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/ElinaKock

Malmö in sweden has it too, almost all the way through the city. Don't know how to post pics here or else I would.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Naylor1993

Surely grachts should be accepted as the English plural


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/ehollander

I agree. If we were supposed to inflect fierljeppen the standard English way (fierljepped), I don't think it makes much sense to require gracht to be inflected the Dutch way.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Corsleutel

Languages don't always make cense though. Besides, fierljeppen is not Dutch but Frisian.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Grodmannen

"Fierljeppen" may be of Frisian origin, but has since been incorporated into the Dutch language, which makes it a Dutch word.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/AndrewsSuzy

If you were to ask an English-speaking visitor to Amsterdam what the 'grachtengordel' is they would call it "the canal belt", which is what the guide books call it. I only say 'the grachts' when speaking with other people with a knowledge of Dutch. Otherwise people will ask, 'what's a gracht' and I'd say 'a canal" Have never heard the expression "city canal" before.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/samenvloeiing

I agree, this is needlessly complex


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/feyMorgaina

"City canal" seems natural enough in English (it's a canal that's in a city), even though I've never heard that term until I was reading about Amsterdam.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/landsend

Friedrichstadt. In ... Germany.

And then there was Venice.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/BillofKempsey

Birmingham, England, has them too, but not as pretty!


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/landsend

True, there are a lot of cities with beautiful city canals, from Beijing to Mexico City, sometimes more prominent than others.

Friedrichstadt is unique for a non Dutch/Belgian city (or at least special) because the canals are actually called Grachten - because the city was built by and for Dutch immigrants.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/atorok

You are right, but I guess, this is why Duolingo expressed it as 'the only countries', because maybe you can mention other cities with grachts, but you cannnot find other countries that have so many cities with grachts inside the city centre.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/landsend

But then "enige"/"only" is an absolute statement.

Just as a side note: I don't mind the statement, this is a language learning site and not a scientific research. But as a comment I couldn't resist.

And Friedrichstadt is by my knowledge and intense research (cough) the only town outside Belgium and the Netherlands where the term is used in this sense and with this etymology (it is the Dutch word).

In general the word "Gracht" means canal or ditch in a broader sense in Lower Saxon, an older variety of German that still is quite common in Northern Germany. No surprise, Dutch and Lower Saxon are very closely related.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/stationary1

My knowledge of Birmingham is mostly restricted to the city center and being a passenger on the M6 and M42. From that limited knowledge, it appears that there are plentiful canals, but generally they don't have streets running along them in the way that grachten do.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/louis.vang

Een gracht is ook een greppel in het weiland om het overtollige water af te voeren, dus zonder een weg naast de gracht. Naast een kanaal is meestal een weg of een kade. Dit is echter niet noodzakelijk: een kanaal betekent dat het uitgegraven is en geen natuurlijke waterweg, in tegenstelling met een rivier.


A moat/gracht/canal is also a ditch in the pasture to drain the excess water, so without a road next to the Canal. Next to a channel is usually a road or a quay. However, this is not necessary: a channel means it excavated and not a natural waterway, in contrast with a river.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/PaulineStinson

wat jij beschrijft ken ik alleen als sloot


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/louis.vang

http://users.skynet.be/peter.motte/vertaalbureau.motte/woorden24.htm

Woorden waarvan de betekenis vaak wordt verward 24

(1) gracht - (2) sloot - (3) greppel - (4) voor/vors

1 = een gegraven waterweg langs een straat; langs de oevers bebouwd kanaal om of door een stad, bijv.: Amsterdamse grachten 2 = een gegraven water, smaller dan een gracht en breder dan een greppel 3 = smalle en ondiepe uitgraving in landerijen, om het water af te voeren 4 = ploegsnede


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/PaulineStinson

Interessant! Kan het een Nederlands vs. Belgisch verschil zijn? Van Dale noemt die betekenis gewestelijk


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/louis.vang

Ik denk dat in België vooral gracht gebruikt word, ook voor sloot en greppel. Deze woorden zijn hier niet gebruikelijk.

In Nederland zal sloot meer gebruikt worden.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/feyMorgaina

I'm all for accepting "gracht" as a word to be used in English, but as an English speaker I would naturally form the plural with an "s" (gracht -> grachts).


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/KJCbi

Yes, so would I, but it still isn't accepted. I'll try reporting it.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/leiah1231

Is a gracht also a ditch?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/quokkas

Yes, it is. Though I'm not sure Duolingo accepts that as correct.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/PaulineStinson

It's either a city canal or a moat around a castle


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/PaulineStinson

How about Peter the Great visiting The Netherlands and copying grachten to Russia? ;)


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/4sily

True, but this sentence is not about their origin ;)


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/MarcinTust

This translation really bugs me city-canals is a terrible use of English. If you want to describe something as being related to cities, the correct adjective is "urban".


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Domleschg

Not necessarily. After all, we refer to city streets, city parks, city water, city buildings . . . .


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/MarcinTust

Do we? City streets is the only one of those I recognise. Indeed, "City parks" would be redundant to refer to an urban park, because rural parks (in the modern sense) are not a thing.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Soglio

In the US, we have city parks, state parks, regional parks, and national parks. The distinction is primarily in the jurisdiction; "urban" vs. "rural" is another typology.

City water is managed by the city authorities; it's distinct, for example, from the well water or spring water that a more isolated area might have.

City streets are within the city, but also maintained by the city authorities; presumably city canals are as well. Thus, again, "urban" vs. "rural" isn't necessarily the only applicable typology.

[US English native speaker]


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Klgregonis

I agree. City is more constrained than urban. Urban can refer to the city and its suburbs, as opposed to the countryside. We often speak of the urban/rural interface, meaning those areas where the suburbs have invaded areas bordering wild lands (national parks, forests, wilderness areas) etc, but those areas may have city water and sewer systems.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Domleschg

Well, I do, and the terms are common everywhere I've lived. In any case, "city streets" would be enough to make the point regarding city canals.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Matt92HUN

What about Italy?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/R_Andersson

Yeah, what about Venice? O_o


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Grodmannen

From Wikipedia:

"In Dutch, the word gracht is used only when canals are located inside the city, while canals outside a city are called kanaal. However, Venice is an exception. In Dutch, one does not say "de grachten van Venetië" (the city-canals of Venice), but "de kanalen van Venetië" (the canals of Venice)."


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Petri502369

Yep indeed, there are a lot of them .


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/w00tw00t

So can average English speakers even properly pronounce the word gracht? Or is the proper English pronunciation gwaght?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/PaulineStinson

the r is pronounced like the r in French trois


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Grodmannen

Is the term "gracht" actually used in Flanders as well? My monolingual Dutch dictionary seems to refer to it as being restricted to the Netherlands, if I understand it correctly.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Maneblusser

Yes it is, but we use the word also for 'sloot' (ditch), because we love to make things confusing. ;)


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/WinstonAnd

I know that Heerengracht, Buitengracht and others in Cape Town now have the canals running underground and not on the surface, but conceptually they are/were canals with streets on both sides in a city, hence grachten - or does this now mean open canals only :-)


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Pieter235124

To me a 'gracht' is primarily a defensive work, and a 'kanaal' is primarily for transportation. Of course , the defensive function was lost and the meaning of gracht shifted a little. English has 'moat', but I wouldn't use that to refer to the kind of moat-converted-to open-sewer-with-streets-and-houses we have in NL.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/PaulineStinson

Literally, gracht is something that was dug (gegraven). On old maps, you'll find "graft" instead of "gracht". I am not sure if a gracht was always meant for defense. In Amsterdam, for example, the 17th century grachten may have had transportation/fire extinguishing as their main functions. After all, they were within the city and not on the outskirts of the city (except for the outmost one).


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Linda385589

I'm sorry, but 'gracht' is not an English word. I grew up in a Canadian city that had a canal - with streets on both sides - and everyone called it 'the canal' since it was the only one in the city.

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