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"Nederland en België zijn de enige landen met grachten."

Translation:The Netherlands and Belgium are the only countries with grachten.

4 years ago

60 Comments


https://www.duolingo.com/Susande
Susande
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I was really hoping for The Netherlands and Belgium are the only countries with canals. to be the preferred translation of this sentence...

4 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/Soglio
Soglio
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Lots of countries have canals, but perhaps only the Netherlands and Belgium have grachten. ;-)

3 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/Susande
Susande
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Maybe you should read my post again and think a smiley at the end. :)

3 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/Soglio
Soglio
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Sorry, I did get a bit fascinated with grachten, but I also thought a smiley at the end. Probably I should have ended mine with a smiley, as well. Here's one now. :-)

3 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/Repelsteeltje
Repelsteeltje
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Indeed! Gothenborg in Sweden has canals too, made by the Dutch...

2 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/schiffmeister
schiffmeister
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That is what I translated it into, and it was wrong, which strikes me as funny.

3 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/Petri502369

I do agree with you. I ask my husband, who is from England, and even he said "grachten" is not the right word. But....................................:)

1 year ago

https://www.duolingo.com/Yoel.
Yoel.
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I had to look this up: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gracht

A gracht is a canal with streets on both sides of the water. In this sense the sentence might be true if we exclude atypical cities like Venice.

A nice example:

4 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/LizaBochkareva

In that case I guess Saint-Petersburg in Russia should qualify as a city with grachten. Besides, it was built by Peter the Great after he had returned from Holland, fascinated by everything Dutch. :)

2 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/Dmikon
Dmikon
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Yes, and it is indeed the example of an atypical city for the country. Like the aforementioned Venice and Gothenborg.

1 year ago

https://www.duolingo.com/tenaaq
tenaaq
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I'm not sure if Venice qualifies for "having grachten" since it doesn't really have streets on both sides of canals but only houses - as far as I can recall. :P

3 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/ilmolleggi
ilmolleggi
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Most cities with rivers have streets on both sides: think Paris, Lyon, Budapest, Vienna, Prague etc.

2 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/magnutsch
magnutsch
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A canal is not a river :D

2 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/GonzaIillo
GonzaIillo
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The Canal Saint-Martin in Paris is indeed a canal, with streets on both sides. Canal du midi in Toulouse is another famous example but there are thousands of canals with streets on both sides all around Europe.

1 year ago

https://www.duolingo.com/Grodmannen
Grodmannen
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But a "gracht" is a city canal, which disqualifies Canal du Midi.

1 year ago

https://www.duolingo.com/GonzaIillo
GonzaIillo
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You're right, maybe it would be a gracht inside the city if it only changed name once outside. Let's say the Canal de Brienne then, to stay in Toulouse. My point was that they exist by hundreds everywhere. It could be that the one writing the sentence only meant it as a joke, meaning that in no other place they'd use the word "gracht" itself.

1 year ago

https://www.duolingo.com/ElinaKock
ElinaKock
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Malmö in sweden has it too, almost all the way through the city. Don't know how to post pics here or else I would.

2 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/Naylor1993
Naylor1993
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Surely grachts should be accepted as the English plural

3 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/ehollander

I agree. If we were supposed to inflect fierljeppen the standard English way (fierljepped), I don't think it makes much sense to require gracht to be inflected the Dutch way.

2 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/Corsleutel

Languages don't always make cense though. Besides, fierljeppen is not Dutch but Frisian.

1 year ago

https://www.duolingo.com/Grodmannen
Grodmannen
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"Fierljeppen" may be of Frisian origin, but has since been incorporated into the Dutch language, which makes it a Dutch word.

1 year ago

https://www.duolingo.com/AndrewsSuzy
AndrewsSuzy
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If you were to ask an English-speaking visitor to Amsterdam what the 'grachtengordel' is they would call it "the canal belt", which is what the guide books call it. I only say 'the grachts' when speaking with other people with a knowledge of Dutch. Otherwise people will ask, 'what's a gracht' and I'd say 'a canal" Have never heard the expression "city canal" before.

3 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/samenvloeiing

I agree, this is needlessly complex

3 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/feyMorgaina
feyMorgaina
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"City canal" seems natural enough in English (it's a canal that's in a city), even though I've never heard that term until I was reading about Amsterdam.

3 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/landsend
landsend
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Friedrichstadt. In ... Germany.

And then there was Venice.

3 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/BillofKempsey
BillofKempsey
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Birmingham, England, has them too, but not as pretty!

3 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/landsend
landsend
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True, there are a lot of cities with beautiful city canals, from Beijing to Mexico City, sometimes more prominent than others.

Friedrichstadt is unique for a non Dutch/Belgian city (or at least special) because the canals are actually called Grachten - because the city was built by and for Dutch immigrants.

3 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/atorok
atorok
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You are right, but I guess, this is why Duolingo expressed it as 'the only countries', because maybe you can mention other cities with grachts, but you cannnot find other countries that have so many cities with grachts inside the city centre.

3 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/landsend
landsend
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But then "enige"/"only" is an absolute statement.

Just as a side note: I don't mind the statement, this is a language learning site and not a scientific research. But as a comment I couldn't resist.

And Friedrichstadt is by my knowledge and intense research (cough) the only town outside Belgium and the Netherlands where the term is used in this sense and with this etymology (it is the Dutch word).

In general the word "Gracht" means canal or ditch in a broader sense in Lower Saxon, an older variety of German that still is quite common in Northern Germany. No surprise, Dutch and Lower Saxon are very closely related.

3 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/louis.vang
louis.vang
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Een gracht is ook een greppel in het weiland om het overtollige water af te voeren, dus zonder een weg naast de gracht. Naast een kanaal is meestal een weg of een kade. Dit is echter niet noodzakelijk: een kanaal betekent dat het uitgegraven is en geen natuurlijke waterweg, in tegenstelling met een rivier.


A moat/gracht/canal is also a ditch in the pasture to drain the excess water, so without a road next to the Canal. Next to a channel is usually a road or a quay. However, this is not necessary: a channel means it excavated and not a natural waterway, in contrast with a river.

3 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/PaulineStinson
PaulineStinson
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wat jij beschrijft ken ik alleen als sloot

2 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/louis.vang
louis.vang
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http://users.skynet.be/peter.motte/vertaalbureau.motte/woorden24.htm

Woorden waarvan de betekenis vaak wordt verward 24

(1) gracht - (2) sloot - (3) greppel - (4) voor/vors

1 = een gegraven waterweg langs een straat; langs de oevers bebouwd kanaal om of door een stad, bijv.: Amsterdamse grachten 2 = een gegraven water, smaller dan een gracht en breder dan een greppel 3 = smalle en ondiepe uitgraving in landerijen, om het water af te voeren 4 = ploegsnede

2 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/PaulineStinson
PaulineStinson
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Interessant! Kan het een Nederlands vs. Belgisch verschil zijn? Van Dale noemt die betekenis gewestelijk

2 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/louis.vang
louis.vang
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Ik denk dat in België vooral gracht gebruikt word, ook voor sloot en greppel. Deze woorden zijn hier niet gebruikelijk.

In Nederland zal sloot meer gebruikt worden.

2 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/feyMorgaina
feyMorgaina
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I'm all for accepting "gracht" as a word to be used in English, but as an English speaker I would naturally form the plural with an "s" (gracht -> grachts).

3 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/Dutchesse722
Dutchesse722
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My hubby is in Suriname right now, and he says there are 'grachten' there.

1 year ago

https://www.duolingo.com/leiah1231
leiah1231
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Is a gracht also a ditch?

3 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/quokkas
quokkas
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Yes, it is. Though I'm not sure Duolingo accepts that as correct.

3 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/PaulineStinson
PaulineStinson
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It's either a city canal or a moat around a castle

2 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/MarcinTust

This translation really bugs me city-canals is a terrible use of English. If you want to describe something as being related to cities, the correct adjective is "urban".

3 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/Domleschg
Domleschg
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Not necessarily. After all, we refer to city streets, city parks, city water, city buildings . . . .

3 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/MarcinTust

Do we? City streets is the only one of those I recognise. Indeed, "City parks" would be redundant to refer to an urban park, because rural parks (in the modern sense) are not a thing.

3 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/Soglio
Soglio
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In the US, we have city parks, state parks, regional parks, and national parks. The distinction is primarily in the jurisdiction; "urban" vs. "rural" is another typology.

City water is managed by the city authorities; it's distinct, for example, from the well water or spring water that a more isolated area might have.

City streets are within the city, but also maintained by the city authorities; presumably city canals are as well. Thus, again, "urban" vs. "rural" isn't necessarily the only applicable typology.

[US English native speaker]

3 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/Klgregonis
Klgregonis
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I agree. City is more constrained than urban. Urban can refer to the city and its suburbs, as opposed to the countryside. We often speak of the urban/rural interface, meaning those areas where the suburbs have invaded areas bordering wild lands (national parks, forests, wilderness areas) etc, but those areas may have city water and sewer systems.

3 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/Domleschg
Domleschg
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Well, I do, and the terms are common everywhere I've lived. In any case, "city streets" would be enough to make the point regarding city canals.

3 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/4sily
4sily
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https://www.duolingo.com/PaulineStinson
PaulineStinson
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How about Peter the Great visiting The Netherlands and copying grachten to Russia? ;)

2 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/4sily
4sily
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True, but this sentence is not about their origin ;)

2 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/Uyterschout
Uyterschout
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Dead link

2 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/Matt92HUN
Matt92HUNPlus
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What about Italy?

2 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/R_Andersson

Yeah, what about Venice? O_o

1 year ago

https://www.duolingo.com/Grodmannen
Grodmannen
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From Wikipedia:

"In Dutch, the word gracht is used only when canals are located inside the city, while canals outside a city are called kanaal. However, Venice is an exception. In Dutch, one does not say "de grachten van Venetië" (the city-canals of Venice), but "de kanalen van Venetië" (the canals of Venice)."

1 year ago

https://www.duolingo.com/Petri502369

Yep indeed, there are a lot of them .

1 year ago

https://www.duolingo.com/w00tw00t
w00tw00t
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So can average English speakers even properly pronounce the word gracht? Or is the proper English pronunciation gwaght?

2 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/PaulineStinson
PaulineStinson
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the r is pronounced like the r in French trois

2 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/Grodmannen
Grodmannen
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Is the term "gracht" actually used in Flanders as well? My monolingual Dutch dictionary seems to refer to it as being restricted to the Netherlands, if I understand it correctly.

2 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/Uyterschout
Uyterschout
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Yes it is e.g. 'De Rietgracht' in Gent. See:http://ojs.ugent.be/index.php/hmgog/article/view/416/409

2 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/WinstonAnd

I know that Heerengracht, Buitengracht and others in Cape Town now have the canals running underground and not on the surface, but conceptually they are/were canals with streets on both sides in a city, hence grachten - or does this now mean open canals only :-)

4 months ago

https://www.duolingo.com/Pieter235124
Pieter235124
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To me a 'gracht' is primarily a defensive work, and a 'kanaal' is primarily for transportation. Of course , the defensive function was lost and the meaning of gracht shifted a little. English has 'moat', but I wouldn't use that to refer to the kind of moat-converted-to open-sewer-with-streets-and-houses we have in NL.

2 months ago

https://www.duolingo.com/PaulineStinson
PaulineStinson
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Literally, gracht is something that was dug (gegraven). On old maps, you'll find "graft" instead of "gracht". I am not sure if a gracht was always meant for defense. In Amsterdam, for example, the 17th century grachten may have had transportation/fire extinguishing as their main functions. After all, they were within the city and not on the outskirts of the city (except for the outmost one).

2 months ago