"Il y a du pain, mais il n'y a aucune viennoiserie."

Translation:There is bread, but there isn't a single pastry.

July 10, 2020

23 Comments
This discussion is locked.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/maryther

There is some bread, but there isn't any pastry?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/KevanSF

One of the hints offered for "aucune" is "any".

Ok, following the hint: "There is bread, but there isn't any pastry." Sounds like a perfectly acceptable English sentence, and seems to match the French (according to the hints provided).

Wrong!

It feels like these new units we sort of rushed into release without anyone checking them.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/--Roody--

Ne ...aucun is a little stronger than "isn't any". That's why Duo translates it as "isn't a single".

In English, I personally would use an intensifier, like "there isn't a freakin' pastry!" But that wouldn't work well in an educational program.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/MaryVDM

Anyone know the difference in meaning between patisserie and viennoiserie? Or are they synonyms?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/MaryVDM

Thank you! That was really interesting. :)


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Seattle_Scott

that's all very interesting indeed, but I lived in France, and shared breakfast with French roommates and dorm mates in college, and we went to "la patisserie" and bought "des patisseries" every morning, including croissants, which are listed in the article as a "viennoiserie".

So it's nice to know the word viennoiserie, and the official differences, but I do think the word "patisserie" is used widely, and in ways that Duo is insisting should only be viennoiserie.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/GraemeSarg

I think you might be confusing the food with the outlet store.

I think you would expect to be able to buy at least the basic "viennoiseries" in either a "boulangerie" or any but an upmarket (and therefore specialist) "patisserie" (or, sacré bleu, in a "supermarché"), but I would only expect to find a dedicated "viennoiserie" in a large town or city.

But they are still, as far as the French are concerned, separate food categories.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/geoff8407

' but not a single pastry ' is more acceptable in English.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/b_adger

yes, "There is bread, but not a single pastry" reported


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/JonasTranc1

"There's bread, but there's not a single pastry." was accepted for me :). I think you do need the "there's" because the French sentence has "il y a".


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Unconquered

Exactly. They mean the same thing, but this way matches the sentence structure used in the French.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Ros80449

I put there is bread but not a single pastry but it was not accepted


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/QuintusMarius

Boulangerie sells bread; patisserie sells pastry. They are often combined, but not always.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/CarlGraing1

A boulangerie makes and sells bread. Invariably they sell viennoiserie as well (croissant, pain au chocolat, pain aux raisins etc). Sometimes they also sell pâtisserie (small cakes, tarts, sweet flans etc) although these are often not made on the premises but bought in. Viennoiserie translates as "a pastry" or as a collective term for this type of pastries. It doesn't translate just as "pastry" which is "pâte". For anyone still confused this is an interesting read, and the mouthwatering pictures make everything clear.
https://www.cordonbleu.edu/news/what-are-patisserie-boulangerie-viennoiserie/en


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/KateMcCabe4

Three of the last sentences used "aucun" or "aucune" as "any. Now it does not accept any. DL certainly lacks any consistency.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/--Roody--

It's not a lack of consistency. The other sentences had objects that were plural. It would be absurd to put "single" in front of a plural noun!

The real point is for us to learn that ne... aucun/e is more emphatic or intense than ne... pas. How do we express this additional emphasis when translating ne... aucun? A standard way is to insert "single" if the following noun is singular.

Maybe someone knows other ways to accomplish this. But so far, nobody has offered an alternative. You all just want to ignore the main issue of increasing emphasis with aucun.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/GraemeSarg

Are you sure that "… there aren't any pastries." is not accepted? That seems extremely unlikely.

And it's definitely accepted nowadays.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/AndrewCh9

why does pain get a "du" but viennoiserie gets nothing?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/b_adger

"viennoiserie" has "aucune" as its article: "some bread", "a single pastry"


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/art577414

"There is bread but not a single pastry" looks right for this matter

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