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  5. "En toch niet"

"En toch niet"

Translation:And yet not

August 10, 2014


[deactivated user]

    It would be nice if the exercises in Duolingo included more examples from everyday life and not such strange constructions. I have been learning English and have had contact with this language for more than 20 years now and I have NEVER EVER heard "and yet not", neither spoken by a foreigner nor by a Native speaker. What is the sense of teaching us such strange and not often used constructions?


    Other languages often use constructions that seem really strange in English. DL has to choose between translating them directly, preserving the weird structure as well as the meaning, or idiomatically, which often changes the meaning a bit, or leads to ambiguity.


    And yet, some people use it all the time. I certainly do when I'm trying to persuade someone that they are wrong.


    The word order seems wrong in the Eglish translation, isn't it?


    The word order is correct but the choice of words is not very English. Slightly better (less misleading) and still close to Dutch: And yet no.

    This has nothing to do with not yet but uses yet in the sense of nevertheless.


    Maybe a more natural sounding translation would "and yet he/she/it doesn't".


    Are "toch niet" and "nog niet" different?

    And I have another question which would be an English question: "yet not" and "not yet" mean differently?


    The two have totally different meanings.

    Nog niet = not yet = not now, but later.

    Toch niet = yet not = unexpectedly not.


    I would imagine this is similar to saying "Alas, no." in English.

    I don't know if alas is archaic now but I still use it and find it rather amusing to do so. :)


    "Alas" is a bit archaic, but I like it too. It expresses regret, though (even if it's sometimes ironic), which I'm not sure that "en toch niet" does.


    Btw, Alas = Helaas.



    What would this mean?


    E.g. Je zou denken dat hij het weet. En toch niet. = You would think he knows it. And yet not.


    We would never say that though. We would say and yet he doesn't


    I just knew it sounded wrong. :) But in any case, this is how it's used in Dutch.


    It's perfectly okay - just rather "literary" and rarely heard in everyday speech.


    In Italy we use to say "E invece no." Pretty much the same.

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