"Io aspetto finché non trovi il cane."
Translation:I wait until you find the dog.
186 CommentsThis discussion is locked.
1078
If you think about it, the english word 'until' has the 'non' built into it - 'un', which means 'not' in english... we have such a wonderfully mashed up language.
855
OOOH, that is a better explanation. Until is in this case not the right translation, because Until refers to a definite moment, while As long as refers to an indefinite time.
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Thanks! This makes perfect sense! I avoid direct translations of other languages to my mother tongue (greek) in order to learn them, I think it's detrimental for the learning process, but sentences need to make sense in italian, otherwise they won't stick in my mind! That helps a lot :)
No. How can 'don't find the dog' and' find the dog' be the same? One is a negative?
I agree. In addition to begin free, with all of its problems, the approach this app takes is proving to be extremely effective for me. There are many alternate online resources at one's fingertips to balance the help here. Taking the trouble to use those resources are a great support out to the learning experience in total.
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actually this is the way a child learns. No explanations just sounds. I THINK this might actually make us more able to use Italian than the more typical lengthy explanations that require you to translate each word and phrase.
from chris123456 about: "No, non finché non lo apri." Translation: No, not until you open it.:
In this sentence only one "non" is causing the negation. In some circumstances " non" doesn't negate things. This is a particularly tricky sentence because it has both types!! The clue is the word "finché" so approach with great caution!!
There are two ways to use "finché and you need to decide which is being used. Either "until the moment that" or "for all the time that." In the former case the use of " non" can be optional and does not change the meaning as in the above case. In the latter use the meaning is changed.
The apparently additional use of "non" is called pleonastic so you may wish to try googling that word or there is more info here: http://onlineitalianclub.com/free-italian-exercises-and-resources/italian-grammar/finche-finche-non/ Hope this helps :)
It's not that pleonastic, though: double negation was once standard English (well, early modern one) and finchè as one may deduct from (http://www.collinsdictionary.com/dictionary/italian-english/finché) functions as until only with the "postpositive" non (in fact it derives from fin+ché), otherwise it is closer to all the way up to (http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/finché)
270
not italian, so I'm just inferring from an older post I've seen below: "io aspetto fino a quando non gli trovi." seems to be the way to solve these "wait until [negative] .. " situations.
Is it just me or has the difficulty gotten far harder in this section? I had absolutely no trouble following this course untik now, and all of a sudden I find myself completely lost. How am I meant to understand how to translate these sentences? I don't recall being instructed on this grammar previously.
For those confused about "non", after reading on it, I think one question really comes to mind.
If "non" is used in a positive sentence, how do you create a negative sentence without a double negative? I.e. "I will wait until you don't do it"
Finché non - Positive Fino a quando - Negative
I will wait until you do it.
Aspetto finché non lo farai.
I will wait until you don't do it.
Aspetto fino a quando non lo farai.
Both contain negatives but for different reasons. These don't have "literal" translations as the grammar is different from English, but you can derive meaning from them as so.
I will wait as long as you don't do it.
Aspetto finché non lo farai.
I will wait for when you don't do it.
Aspetto fino a quando non lo farai.
Well, we say things like "I'm not going until you find the car keys", which to a non-native English speaker no doubt sounds like "I'm not going" etc. Every language has its idiosyncracies, and "finchè non" is one of the Italian ones. We tend to think our own language is quite simple, and since we are used to it, we don't think of the inherent difficulties....until someone says "Why in English is say like this?" (We have had several Italian cousins to visit recently, and that is the sort of thing they ask.) So try to just learn something as a general rule...i.e. in Italian, "until" is expressed as "finchè non"...and so on.
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This would have been very confusing to me, but the Czech language works the same way. Instead of saying "until", they just say "while" (or as long as), and negate the verb.
So, instead of "until you find the dog", you say "while you don't find the dog", or you can think of it as "as long as you haven't found the dog".
That's not the meaning of your sentence.
'Until you do not find the dog' means that the dog is here now, it's not missing and you will wait until the dog is missing.
You would need to mark the change somehow, like in aspetto finché non troverai più il cane. più shows that the action of trovare is finished, and therefore the dog is missing.
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not italian, but I infer from an older post in this thread that this should be solved with: "io aspetto fino a quando non trovi il cane."
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Iborrione: I put 'Io aspetto finche tu trovi il cane' and it was marked right, so assume you can say it like this.
2025
A point in English I seem to be unsure of is that: I'll and we'll can be rendered I will, we will or I shall, we shall when indicating the future. Yet DL does not accept I shall in this case. Anyone know why?
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Thanks Muttley, surely this does prove my point? Not worth the bother though, life's too short for shillyshallying and willynillying.
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Having been over this again, and not having looked at this particular lesson for weeks, I now find that I got it wrong and put 'il carne' instead as that is what I heard. How can we differentiate the sound of 'cane' and 'carne', as this sentence would have vaguely made sense even with 'meat'? Thank you for any tips.
As a Brit I would pronounce "cane" and "carne" the same, but living in America has modified that, but we are of course talking about speaking English. My impression is that native Italians do not accentuate the "r" in a word like "carne" as much as an American would in "carnival" but I would be interested in a native Italian speaker's comments.
It has been explained several times in previous comments. Please read the comments before submitting one that has already been answered. This helps you get answers to your questions, keeps the number of comments to a manageable number and shows some respect to the people who spend their time trying to help users learn Italian :-)
Para quien habla español, esto es bastante útil. http://www.curso-de-italiano.de/gramatica/capitulo16/16_5_3_finche_fin_quando_parte1.htm
Saludos!
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This post is just for clarification - 'finche non' are used together to mean 'until', so don't associate the non with trovi i.e. hence the translation 'I'll wait until you find the dog'.
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Why Non, meaning that I will until you haven't found the dog. But I want that you find my dog.
Same here, easy for me. But I would not say it is illogical, because when I think about it there is more logic to that in English, as someone waits till he/she finds the dog, so the word "no" doesn't make much sense. I can understand the confusion English speakers have here. But you know, each language has its own rules and structures, we have to learn them.
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Didn't the exact previous example of this sentence not use the word non. I am so confused.
From what I understand finche non = until and finche = as long as. So it wouldnt make sense if it was finche on its own because it would be I will wait as long as you find the dog, adding a non doesn't necessarily create 'as long as you dont' because that wouldnt make sense, it instead as adds a finality to the 'as long as' -so when the 'as long as' ends i.e until.
The "non" throws me off. I've read the explanations, but it stills throws me off.
I listened to it several times and I can hear the 'l'.
However, in everyday life, it is common to "swallow" some letters when speaking: it happens in all languages. Think of "and" which is often reduced to just 'n'.
Regardless of this phenomenon, the noun is in its singular form: cane. The plural form is cani. An Italian speaker would have no issues separating the two sound (/e/ vs /i/) the same way that 'ship' and 'sheep' do not sound the same to an English speaker (Italians, however, would not be able to distinguish the two).
Let’s say you and your brother are taking your dog to a veterinarian.
But you can’t find the dog, so he has to wait while you are looking for your dog ( there is no sense to go to the vet without the dog, right?)
So, he waits as long as you can NOT find it (you do NOT find it / you are NOT finding the dog), but at the moment when you find the dog the waiting is over and now you can go to the vet.
Please read the comments, it’s been very well explained.
This video explains the use of finché:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HfGnin29b-0
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As far as I know "finché (non)" can also be used with the conjunctive, so Duolingo should be kind enough not to reject the translation "I wait until I find the dog"!
But this would be wrong as
”trovi = (he/she) finds”
So it is 3rd singular person, not 1st singular person as in your translation.
This video explains the use of finché:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HfGnin29b-0
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why are the current speakers so hard to understand? Previous speakers quite clear in their pronunciation.
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I agree, the new added voices seem not as clear (especially what sounds like an older man and a child), but I think it might be more realistic, since when I listen to shows, movies, etc, the speakers are not nearly as clear as the original DuoLingo voices, and I have a LOT of trouble understanding them. I think the addition of the new voices will be helpful in understanding more people in the real world.