"No, non finché non lo apri."

Translation:No, not until you open it.

May 16, 2013

50 Comments


https://www.duolingo.com/Tim1988

is there a non too much in this sentence?

May 16, 2013

https://www.duolingo.com/strelitzia

No ;)

May 16, 2013

https://www.duolingo.com/Tim1988

then how does it work? because i don't get it

May 16, 2013

https://www.duolingo.com/Chris123456

In this sentence only one "non" is causing the negation. In some circumstances " non" doesn't negate things. This is a particularly tricky sentence because it has both types!! The clue is the word "finché" so approach with great caution!!

There are two ways to use "finché and you need to decide which is being used. Either "until the moment that" (until) or "for all the time that" (while) In the former case the use of " non" can be optional and does not change the meaning as in the above case. In the latter use the meaning is changed.

The apparently additional use of "non" is called pleonastic so you may wish to try googling that word or there is more info here: http://onlineitalianclub.com/free-italian-exercises-and-resources/italian-grammar/finche-finche-non/ Hope this helps :)

May 16, 2013

https://www.duolingo.com/Mel__Carter

I'm not sure if you have modified this, maybe the edit didn't go through. It still says "In the former case the use of "non" can be optional..." Or maybe it did and I'm just not thinking about it right :P Writing here because I can't reply to your last post, for some reason. Thanks for the great explanation, by the way :)

June 28, 2013

https://www.duolingo.com/damnthisaccount

But wouldn't the second 'non' be optional in this sentence? Why does it still come up as wrong?

June 27, 2013

https://www.duolingo.com/Chris123456

In my own attempts to understand this I had read that when used to express "until" the use of non after finché was optional but, as you suggest, this may lead to misinterpretation if that option is exercised in a way that is not clear.

It may be better to just think of "finché non" as meaning "until" and "finché" as meaning "while" and to hold an appreciation that this can be a bit of a grey area at times. I've modified my original post to reflect this and I sincerely hope I havn't confused more than helped!

June 27, 2013

https://www.duolingo.com/Tim1988

thanks!

May 16, 2013

https://www.duolingo.com/Poseidon95

Thanks so much Chris. I went here to ask for an explanation, and you did a wonderful job. Next question for anyone. Why lo apri and not l'apri? I have a feeling I know already but a clarification would be nice.

August 5, 2016

https://www.duolingo.com/happycrappie

Thank you so much

October 28, 2013

https://www.duolingo.com/Lingolizard

Thanks, but if the additional use of "non" is pleonastic, wouldn't it mean that finché means "until" and not "while"?

December 16, 2014

https://www.duolingo.com/formaggiamente

"non finché lo apri" = "not while you open it" = "not as long as you open [or 'keep on opening'] it"

"non finché non lo apri" = "not while you do not open it" = "not until you open it"

September 11, 2013

https://www.duolingo.com/epac-mcl

Hi eighfowr. That's a good explanation. Now I get it, thanks.

November 26, 2013

https://www.duolingo.com/ode2joy

Great explanation, formaggiamente. Thanks!

January 29, 2015

https://www.duolingo.com/trevro

I really appreciate this type of explanation, and try to explain thing in this manner myself. Thanks for this!

May 1, 2014

https://www.duolingo.com/parya2

Thanks

July 29, 2014

https://www.duolingo.com/LouiseAgiu

I like this too :)

February 1, 2014

https://www.duolingo.com/rachelmknight1

Instead, think of it as "No, not as long as you do not open it." Then all the "non's" make sense.

December 24, 2015

https://www.duolingo.com/tuftypoem

The double negative doesn't apply in Italian - no matter how many times you say 'non', it's still negative

August 23, 2015

https://www.duolingo.com/pierugofoz

it is tricky to understand also for us italians, but sometimes the double negative makes the sentence positive even in italian language

(io) Non posso non aprire la porta = (io) Devo aprire la porta
I cannot not open the door . . . . . . = I have to open the door

August 24, 2015

https://www.duolingo.com/coloraday

Note that lo apri ((you) open it) can also be contracted to l'apri.

July 19, 2013

https://www.duolingo.com/ibryesn

why did they use lo apri then and not l'apri?

October 29, 2014

https://www.duolingo.com/ptmyen

is "la apri" correct as well? In case "it" is feminine?

August 13, 2014

https://www.duolingo.com/pierugofoz

yes, what you say is correct
here Lo/La are direct object pronouns (as already pointed by other people above), which must agree in gender and number with the object

-not until you open it
non finché non Lo (book/ tap/masc.sing.nouns) apri
non finché non La (bottle/ door/fem.sing.nouns) apri

-not until you open them
non finché non Li (books/ taps/masc.pl.nouns) apri
non finché non Le (bottles/ doors/fem.pl.nouns) apri http://italian.about.com/library/fare/blfare116a.htm

November 4, 2014

https://www.duolingo.com/AlexHawkey

it accepted 'no not until you open him' a handy phrase for a coroner if the cause of death is unknown

March 10, 2016

https://www.duolingo.com/sofocoso

yeah definitely break it down: lo apri = you open it non lo apri = you dont open it no, non finche = no, not while

the literal translation as such no, non finche non lo apri = no not while you dont open it.


edit jan215: literal translation vs natural translation. natural: No, not until you open it

December 4, 2014

https://www.duolingo.com/josh2934

How would I know there is an it at the end of this? How would an Italian know for that matter?

January 14, 2014

https://www.duolingo.com/PriscillaMoore

Here "lo" is the indicator of the direct object pronoun "it"; it comes before the verb. I don't remember seeing it in the exercises before this case, so it seems likely that you would be first encountering it here.

January 16, 2014

https://www.duolingo.com/matisscz

Thanks for clearing that up, I still couldn't get over Io being just I, but this is actually Lo, so now I get it. Small L vs. Capital i seems to confuse me a lot in duolingo's font.

February 11, 2014

https://www.duolingo.com/KarenColle

Really good point to bring up! I have had a problem with that too!

February 18, 2014

https://www.duolingo.com/josh2934

Encounter what? Lo coming before the verb indicating it following?

January 17, 2014

https://www.duolingo.com/PriscillaMoore

Yes, if I understood your question properly. I thought your question was about spotting the direct object - I apologize if I misunderstood.

January 17, 2014

https://www.duolingo.com/josh2934

No you got it. Thanks.

January 18, 2014

https://www.duolingo.com/Scostumatu

My head hurts

August 5, 2014

https://www.duolingo.com/MartinMacK

I am wondering if someone could please translate these for me: "non finché" "finché non"
"non finché non"

Thanks!

May 14, 2014

https://www.duolingo.com/Briguy84

"non finché" = not while "finché non" = until "non finché non" = not until

Like the one of people above stated that "finché" is a bit of grey area as to when to use these but essentially this is what they mean.

July 6, 2014

https://www.duolingo.com/MartinMacK

Oh, and also this one:
"finché" thanks!

May 14, 2014

https://www.duolingo.com/buzzylittlebee

"While"

September 9, 2016

https://www.duolingo.com/sebtred

Could this also have the meaning of "not unless you open it"?

May 21, 2014

https://www.duolingo.com/an114

is "lo" being used as a pronoun in this case ?

June 14, 2014

https://www.duolingo.com/garrypas

It is the direct object pronoun for whatever is being opened, but to an English speaker it is back-to-front "it you open" rather than "you open it".

June 14, 2014

https://www.duolingo.com/an114

so 'lo' is referring to whatever is being opened and is it always back to front ?

June 14, 2014

https://www.duolingo.com/BasilXanth

Do i am the only one with with so many new and unwnown words in this frase? Does duolingo supports me with with any kind of dictionary? Any previews or examples?

February 18, 2015

https://www.duolingo.com/SamuelArcher

If you press the word with a dotted line underneath it you will get the translation for that word

February 7, 2016

https://www.duolingo.com/SphagnumPeatMoss

Finché == as long as. "Until you open it" == "Finché non lo apri" (as long as you don't open it). "Not until you open it" == "Non finché non lo apri" (not as long as you don't open it). "No, not until you open it" == "No, non finché non lo apri (no, not as long as you don't open it). "You are mine until I die" == "Sei mio finché non muoio" (you are mine as long as I don't die. Would this be an accurate breakdown of how these sentences are constructed?

March 22, 2015

https://www.duolingo.com/dhunteroz

I have similar interpretation though I prefer to use the word "while" rather than "as long as". "No, non finché non lo apri" becomes "No, not while not (you open it)" = "No, not while you don't open it" is correct answer btw = "No, not while it isn't opened by you", which means the same as "Not until you open it", but the perspective is different.

May 7, 2015

https://www.duolingo.com/JamesEilen

So, does lo always mean it? I'm confused. Some help please?

April 23, 2016

https://www.duolingo.com/redbrickhouse

No. "Lo" refers to a single masculine object or entity. It translates to "it" or "him". But obviously "him" doesn't make a lot of sense in this case.

April 23, 2016

https://www.duolingo.com/o-HELENA-o

Aaaaaah! Stupid "it"! Nobody needs u!

June 1, 2016

https://www.duolingo.com/WanderingGator

I'm no expert, but the way I had to straighten this out in my head was to translate it as: "No, not while you have not opened it". DL equates this to "not until you have opened it", with "Not While" = "Until". But to keep the meaning the same it has to go from "not while it is NOT opened" to "Until it IS opened". Both forms then indicate the object isn't yet opened in the present.

December 9, 2018
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