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"Ik zal ze dan hier toevoegen."

Translation:I will then add them here.

August 11, 2014

21 Comments


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/phb2013

I wrote "I shall then add them here" which was marked as incorrect but I think it should be accepted. I did report it.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Bageder

If I may have my say... I think "shall" is an under-used word that can be used to add "expressive power" in some situations. For example:

"Will you meet me again tomorrow?" "Yes, I shall."

The question expresses some degree of doubt. The use of "shall" in the reply gives reassurance.

I think your answer should have been accepted.

Regards


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/rebekasto

I think 'shall' should be accepted but I was wondering about the differences between 'shall' and 'will' and read that 'shall' is used more in legal and biblical terms because it has a more definitive sense. In other words, when you use 'shall', you really will do it, no doubt about it. As in a court order: "The prisoner shall be remanded to life without parole" or a biblical term: "Ask and you shall receive".


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Eryashnik

The difference in English isn't big enough for that to matter. Shall and will are extremely interchangeable in many instances, such as here.

Shall and will don't REALLY have a difference in the certainty of doing something although maybe shall does have a bit of a stronger feel to it in certain cases.

Like, I'll go to the supermarket. I will go to the supermarket. I shall go to the supermarket.

The strongest of those to me feels like "I shall" and it seems a little comedic or dramatic to say "I shall go to the supermarket".

On the other hand, my understanding of English is the American version, so a Brit might find it perfectly normal to say "I shall go to the supermarket".


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Splodgeit0

In terms of going to the super market (hehe) we would use them interchangably where I am from in the UK, often there is little emphasis on the actual word, it comes out more like sh'll


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/GeorgeManu1

In my grammar books ' shall' was used after 'I' and 'we', 'will' with the other subject pronouns.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Hazelbric

Shall can be used with the other pronouns. I think what your grammar book was picking up on is the use of shall in questions, as in "Shall I/we go?" where you'd have to us "will" or some other constriction for you, he etc. It's subtle but I think in this context shall has something to do with intent.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Dzhocef

My French teacher said the same as that grammar book when my class had to write English conjugations for shall/will to understand French conjugation better.

I want to say that the words are interchangeable because the poem about kittens and mittens says "you shall have no pie". But it's likely that the poem was written when you was distinctly plural, which would coincide with we shall (and then I would be similar to we because it's self-referring). It also could've just been an irregular verb for older versions of English.

As far as spoken English, I don't think anyone would bother pointing out the differences in a regular conversation if the words were interchanged.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Bageder

Slightly off the point, but I'd just like to say that poetry is not a good grammar guide. Take, for example, the famous "The Rubaiyat of Omar Khayyam" - poem by Omar Khayyam, translated into English in 1859 by Edward FitzGerald. Verse 29 begins: "Myself when young did eagerly frequent...". This is, perhaps, one of the most well-known examples of "poetic licence".


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Dzhocef

The poem I reffered to is pretty normal for modern English, and if it differed extremely from current English standards it wouldn't still be a common children's rhyme. But yeah, poetry isn't always a good grammar guide (my favorite thing about poems is that I can use Dutch word order haha).


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Joelson00

Yes: I shall, you will, he/she/it will, etc. And for emphasis it is inverted: I WILL, you SHALL, he/she/it SHALL, as in the commandments (with the old form: Thou shalt not...)


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/AlastairHaigh

You missed the "then"


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/phb2013

No, I did include the "then", but I see now why it was marked wrong. I should have used "will" instead of "shall".


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/AlastairHaigh

In English, "will" and "shall" are, in this context, interchangeable, although "will" is used far more commonly. There is nothing wrong with the sentence "I shall then add them here".


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/dbeeva

How can I tell if the meaning of "ze" here is them and not "she"?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/ilmolleggi

as a direct object ze is only them and never her, which is haar.

On the other hand as a subject it can mean both they or she.

To sum it up:

ze = she, they, them

her = haar


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/RussJenkins

I don't understand if the english "then" used here means "at this time" or "because of that" so the sentence is a bit ambiguous.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Bageder

I can see your point. In fact, I think the answer given is not quite correct. As it is written, "I will then add them here," means "at that time", but this is NOT the intended meaning (in my opinion). The ambiguity arises from the missing commas. It should read, "I will, then, add them here." Native English speakers would usually deduce the intended meaning from context without even noticing the potential for misinterpretation. In formal written work, however, such as technical writing, there is no place for this kind of error.

Nevertheless, I, myself, as a one-time technical writer, did not notice this problem until you drew my attention to it. Well done! It's a point well-made. Have a Lingot!


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/chilvence

I wish I knew what context this sentence was in English to begin with...

It takes me back to all those years I wasted wondering exactly who exactly 'They' were :)


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/jojo997119

"then" should be at the beginning or end of the sentence


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/phb2013

Good question. I think in this sentence "dan" can be interpreted as both "then/next", or "in that case", and both translations would work whether you put "dan" at the beginning or in the middle of the sentence. "Ik zal ze dan hier toevoegen" = "I will then/next add them here" or "I will, in that case, add them here". "Dan zal ik ze hier toevoegen" = "Then/next, I will add them here" or "In that case, I will add them here". Interpretation will depend on context. Russ Jenkin's question, and Bageder's answer above also cover this issue.

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