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- "Lei pensa che l'abbia lascia…
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The subject of the clause "che l'abbia lasciata" could be "I" or "he" or "she" or "it" if the subject pronoun is missing -- isn't that so?
I think it should be accepted because "abbia" is the same for all persons of the subjunctive present singular.
No, a singular subjunctive form without a subject is interpreted as first or third person.
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I think you have been downed because Duo has not included the formal 'you'- Lei, in their course so far.
As I wrote elsewhere, I was taught that since the person is indeterminate for the congiuntivo presente singolare, it is conventional to include a subject for the dependent clause unless it is the same as that of the independent clause. By that convention, the answer above is correct (it is accepted, btw), and DL's answer violates the convention.
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It is correct, but it's a weird one, because the first she must not be the second she. Meaning the subject of the 2nd clause cannot be the same as the subject of the 1st clause for subjunctive to be triggered. If the subject is the same, then the phrase would have been "lei pensa di l'aver lasciata".
Is it a “Rule” or an “Option” to not use the subjunctive if the subject of both clauses is the same. The site below states: “If the subject of both clauses is the same, you DON’T NEED to use the subjunctive, …” The site does not state that it is incorrect to use the subjunctive. http://learnitalian.web.unc.edu/home/verbs/subjunctive/
The statement is misleading. One normally does not say the equivalent of "I am happy that I am not ill"--which is perfectly good English--but rather "I am happy not to be ill": Sono contento di non essere malato.
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That's right. "It" can be something that is male or female gender. That's why you can put either "it" or "she" for lasciata, when translating from Italian to English.
With the same logic, if it were lasciato you could put "it" or "he".
Who has "left it" it's not stated, so it can be "he", "she" or even "it".
I hope you understand now :)
Am I correct in thinking that the subjects here cannot be the same? Otherwise, shouldn't one say "lei pensa di l'aver lasciata" ('She thinks that she left it/her.')? In French and in German, one can say the syntactic equivalent of "I think/believe to have done it," but in English, it seems, that sounds odd with "think" in the present tense, cf. I had thought to have finished the task. Right?
This is one of those abysmal Duo context-less sentences that could mean almost anything. Why is someone always leaving someone? Are all Duo staff people unhappy in love?
rl: I agree. It makes me so sad I think I'll have another glass of oil.
I think it has to be wrong because lasciata ends in the feminine ending, so the article "l" must stand for something feminine (so it can't be a "he" that got left).
Am I right in thinking that the subject of abbia here could be I, you, him, or her? Do people actually use subjunctive in day-to-day speech in Italian? Seems like it would cause a lot of confusion.
Matt: Context should eliminate most of any possible confusion. When I studied in Bologna my teacher told us that the subjunctive is much more common in Italian than it is in English -- he'd lived in SF for several years and his English was quite good. He emphasized that knowing how to use the subjunctive is what separated speakers (native & foreign) who could express themselves from those who could express themselves WELL. His point was the subjunctive is very important to learn.
This is also true of French...Even seemingly "uneducated" speakers use the subjunctive systematically--and in casual conversation. I've had discussions/arguments with non-native speakers of French who are quite fluent but also careless, claiming that it doesn't matter. It does, that is, if one cares about how one's proficiency is judged. It may seem snobbish, but that's the reality...
It's lasciatA and not lasciatO to convey the idea that the 'l' in "l'abbia" = 'la' and refers therefore to a female. If the writer had intended the 'l' in "l'abbia" to equal 'lo' and a male, then and only then would the past participle have been lasciatO.
This subject is called "concordanza" or "accordo" of the past participle and it is one of the trickiest italian grammar topics :)
( See here )
E non è vero? Faresti meglio a correggere questa idea sbagliata subito!
in Italian " che l'abbia lasciata" may be first or third person. You never put the subject!
Where is the subject? Surely for this to be 'I' have left her it should have io abbia..... just to show the person involved? Otherwise l'abbia could be anyone!
I'm working on a version of this sentence where you are given the Italian and are asķed to translate into english from a limited set of english words. The correct answer is given as, "She thinks that I have left her". What a tricky owl you are.
Michael: I think there are several correct answers besides the one given which you cite depending on context: She thinks that she has left her/She thinks that he has left her, maybe even She thinks that you (formal) have left her -- since the verb 'abbia' is the same for all 3 persons in the singular. In fact instead of "her" you could substitute any feminine noun, so: She thinks that I have left IT -- or any of the other subjects.
That is not English. To make it grammatical you would have to add a reference to another time in the past later than the time 'I had left her'; otherwise the past perfect "I had left" makes no sense with the main clause in present tense
eg "She thinks that I had already left her before she met you, but she is wrong".
But the equivalent Italian for this would be "lei pensa che l'avessi gia' lasciata...", using the congiuntivo trapassato, and not the congiuntivo passato used here.
How can you determine what the context is? Like saying i left her without there being me, or io.
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"abbia" could also be "he" or "she". I think my answer "She thinks that he left her" shoud have been accepted
"l'abbia lasciata" is "he left her." "I left her" is "l'ho lasciata." Isn't DL wrong on this one. Or is it me?
You would be correct if this was indicative and not the subjunctive. This however is the subjunctive.
Because in the context of the sentence the object of lasciata is feminine and could very well be the same person as Lei.
Duo is wrong. I don't understand why they try and make this so confusing. A pronoun would clearly identify "who" or "what" left her. If we said Lei pensa che "io" l'abbia lasciata, then "I" left her. If we said Lei pensa che "tu" l'abbia lasciata, then "you" left her. If we said Lei pensa che "loro" l'abbia lasciata, then "they" left her.
mjw360: i think it's correct and should be reported. The past participle being feminine is to agree with the pronoun object not with a subject, as i understand it.
Why isn't the "I" mentioned. How would you know who is being talked about?
juddmin: I think you're adding something that's not necessarily there. "Leave behind" sounds like abandonment, while the original might simply be saying she thought I'd left her...for another woman, to go play golf, to go get the car, whatever, rather than 'left her behind' which is stronger.
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I'm pretty sure for this to mean "leave behind" it would have to be "Lei pensa che l'abbia lasciata perdere". That perdere, meaning to lose, would kind of literally mean to "leave it perish" i.e. "behind"
There is NO "lui" in the sentence. "Lei" is "she" and the "a" ending on "lasciatA" tells you the "l'" refers to a female.
DarioMontecello: No, I don't think so. For it to be 'him' than the past participle would have to be "lasciatO". Since it's "lasciatA" it has to be either 'her' or "it" referring to some feminine noun.
