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"He believes everything that I say."

Translation:Crede tutto ciò che dico.

May 17, 2013

72 Comments


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/jgbachand

Why is "cio" in here at all? Is this an idiom? "Crede tutto che dico" seems to translate all the words...


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Marninger

ciò = this / that
che = that / which
ciò che = this which ~ what

"Crede, tutto, ciò che, dico" =
"He/she/it believes, everything, what, I say" ~
"He believes everything I say"

"Non è bello ciò che bello, ma è bello ciò che piace" =
"Not beautiful this which is beautiful, but beautiful what is liked" ~
"Beauty is in the eye of the beholder"


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/BrettThoma3501

Once again, how are learners expected to understand that "that" in this sentence is made up of two words, both of which can be translated to mean "that"?

There is no indication of the reason why both words are necessary.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/LorenzoBon461888

By being curious and exploring the comments! It takes seeing something 20x before memorizing it when learning a language. You're not going to get it the first time, even of they told you why. In fact, its probably more effective that they didnt so that you will better remember this moment!

Sometimes there is no "why" when learning a language, you just have to be curious, ask questions, and practice practice practice :)


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/BrettThoma3501

I hate to disagree, but there is always a "why". If there can be a correct answer, there must be a rubric by which its correctness can be determined. A glance at such a scale would certainly go a long way in ensuring that the correct lessons are learned; it is very easy to learn an incorrect, yet serviceable, method of translation. This is why with arithmetic we are taught to follow the equation and show our work, to prevent us from developing mental shortcuts that don't apply to more complicated problems of the same type.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/LorenzoBon461888

Fair enough. A lot of people learn better using methods like that. But if DL were to provide a rubric on every single new word introduced it would quickly become convoluted and overwhelming for the majority of users. If you want something more involved try a class or tutor instead of a free app :)

Even so, I think you make an unfair comparison between learning language and arithmetic which is done using different methods and locations within the brain! If you ask 'why' to 99.9% of a certain language's speakers, they would most likely answer "because it sounds right" or something similar. They can be great language speakers without the 'equations' or 'showing work' because they employ the most effective language learning strategies like DL offers: repetition, practise, and listening attentively.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/maz1269

i wouldn't say there's always an answer to "why" unless you consider "just because" a good answer. lots of things are idiomatic, historic, etc., lots of things even put linguists at odds in explaining them. spoken language is not purely logical, so there cannot always be a rubric. and that's good, because speaking in formal logic would be a nightmare


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/CaroKirk1

But language is nothing like arithmetic! It's mutable and nuanced - which is why we can write poetry and understand literature. Like everything in life language does have rules that are broadly applicable, but there are always exceptions :-)


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Vakz
  • 268

But there has to be a why. Otherwise I can only use "ciò" in this specific sentence, because I don't know it's purpose and I don't know how to use it when building other sentences.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/SusanCoope312550

I totally agree, there must be a reason, even if it goes back into the way the language used to be spoken. DL could have put something about ciò in the Tips at the beginning of the lesson.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/CaroKirk1

Agree with the idea that there isn't always a reason 'why', and that it can be a bit confusing to want language to be completely rational - it's the idosyncracies that make language beautiful and interesting


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/shrin990106

many thanks for your answer I believe what you said.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/CarolPapal1

That seems to be the case, all right!


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Carlo522814

Bello.....si dice bello.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/The___Idler

Why is it "belle" and not "bello" here?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Marninger

Thank you, - I stand corrected.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/mryBNG

sentences like "Not beautiful this which is beautiful, but beautiful what is liked" really make it clear how different languages are. And help me to comprehend why things sometimes sound odd when translated. Thanks for the examples.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Nonna602151

Rather than "what" we would say "that": ...everything that we say.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Anne609994

Many thanks for a good explanation. Have an ingot.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/erislazri

Wtf to me 0 sense


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/shrin990106

thank you Marningar.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/mfelix

"Tutto" in this sentence doesn't translate to "everything", it translates better to "every". It's an adjective. While there are times "tutto" can serve as a noun, this isn't one of them. A more literal translation is "He believes all that which I say", with "that" as a noun.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/jgbachand

Thank you. I'm so used to hearing "Tutto va bene?" and "E' tutto in posto?" around the house, I lost track of the fact that "tutto" is also an adjective. Grazie.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Matthias1414

"È tutto a posto?" would be the correct sentence: "Everything alright?"


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Davide.310

The translate is wrong... in this case "credere" is intransitive, and it can be only "credere in" or "credere a". "Credere qualcosa" it's not italian. You can use "credere" as transitive in a sentence like "Credo che farò tardi"="I think I will be late"


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/The___Idler

Dear "mother tongues", please do not get mad at me, but I think the italian sentence CAN be phrased using a transitive construction. I do have got three pieces of evidence.

1) My Italian - German dictionary (https://dict.leo.org/italienisch-deutsch/credere%20qc) says "credere qualcosa" = "etwas glauben" and the meaning of the German words are simply "to believe something".

2) The Cambridge Online Dictionary (https://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/italian-english/credere) lists "credere qualcosa" as a transitive use of credere. Sadly the do not give a example.

3) Lastly, and most importantly, take a look at the last sentence of the following excerpt from the entry "credere" (http://www.treccani.it/vocabolario/credere/) of the Encyclopedia published by the "Istituto dell'Enciclopedia Italiana":

crédere v. intr. e tr. [lat. crēdĕre]. – 1. intr. (aus. avere) e tr. Ritenere vera una cosa, avere la persuasione che una cosa sia tale quale appare in sé stessa o quale ci è detta da altri, o quale il nostro sentimento vuole che sia. In partic.: a. C. a qualcuno, prestare fede alle sue parole, alle sue attestazioni o promesse: Se non mi credi, pon mente a la spiga, Ch’ogn’erba si conosce per lo seme (Dante); c. ai giornali, ai ciarlatani; c. sulla parola, senza bisogno di prove o giuramenti; fig., non c. ai proprî occhi, quando si vede cosa molto strana e che desti forte meraviglia. È usato talvolta transitivamente in costruzioni di tipo passivo, spec. con l’agente indeterminato, riconducibili a equivalenti costruzioni impersonali: è inutile che io parli, tanto non sono creduto (= tanto non mi si crede); prov., quand’uno per bugiardo è conosciuto, anche se dice il ver non è creduto. b. C. a qualche cosa, accettare per vero: crede a tutto ciò che gli si dice; non bisogna c. alle chiacchiere; può darsi che sia così, ma io non ci credo. Con uso trans.: crede tutto ciò che gli dicono;

So, to summarize my understanding, it can be phrased without the preposition "a" but the common way to do it is using the preposition "a". Upshot: it seems a bad idea of duolingo to confront us early-stage-learners with this rather uncommon usage of credere.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/The___Idler

Some kind person just told me that "without the a", it would be really outdated. Consequence: if it's not "wrong", it is at least "wrong to modern ears"...

... and I think we want to sound right to modern ears!


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/pierobonal

We normally say "crede A tutto ciò che dico". Because you "credi a qualcosa" not "credi qualcosa". Grammatica italiana.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/bill_oneill51

this whole exercise has many "correct" translations from Italian to English which in fact are either incorrect or are very awkward in English.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/David1945

Yes, I agree. But if we English speakers offer more natural alternatives the programme will improve and on our second try of the unit we will get it right!


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/ckyle8

Funny, but this sentence was in lesson 5, too, only then it was translated as "Crede a tutto quello che dico." I have to ask, which is the more common way of saying it? Or is it a situational difference?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/AntonyHodgson

I think that 'quello/a/e/i che' is used when there are more concrete objects already referred to in the conversation, whereas cio is used when the thing being referred to is more abstract or unspecified. I understand that quello can be used anywhere cio is used. Could someone with more Italian experience please confirm this?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/mfelix

Sounds right to me. Ciò would never be used to indicate a distant object the way "quello" is, but quello can be used in the abstract sense that you mentioned. Credo a quello che dici/Credo a ciò che dici.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/AntonyHodgson

More discussion of cio vs quello at http://forum.wordreference.com/showthread.php?t=226708 Of most interest is that cio is considered more formal and correct in written work, whereas quello is the most common spoken form.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/mangoHero1

I just still don't get why cio or quello are used at all if there's no "that" or "this" in the sentence.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/mfelix

English is more liberal about dropping "that" than Italian is about dropping "che". "The food that I eat is good" and "the food I eat is good" are both valid English, but you can't say "il cibo mangio è buono". "Che" is required in a lot more places than "that".


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/ChrisMarti263082

I didn't understand the usage at first, but It just occurred to me that ( I think) "ciò che" is identical to "lo que" in Spanish! Any Italian-Spanish speakers care to confirm this?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/ciampix

Crede A tutto ciò che dico. A is missing. The answer is wrong. I reported it.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/pinky738990

Italians seem to have an awful lot of words meaning this, that, which or what. Its going to take a long time to get my head around this.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/ciampix

You should say: "Crede -a- or -in- tutto ciò che dico." The sentence is wrong. I reported the problem but it was impossible to specify the reason. That's why I am reporting this here.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/RobBlaney

Can someone explain why both "cio" and "che"? I understood "che" to mean that. I know we can't translate literally word-for-word, but this phrase seems to double up: Crede - he believes tutto - everything che - that dico - I say


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/AntonyHodgson

cio che often has the sense of 'that which', but it can frequently be translated most directly as simply 'what' or 'that' (eg, 'ripetere cio che avete detto' - repeat what (that which) you said)). In the current phrase, it doesn't translate exactly to English (we wouldn't say 'he believes everything that which I say'), but there is a sense in which 'cio che' refers back to the 'everything' previously mentioned. If it's any consolation, Google Translate renders 'lui crede tutto che dico' as 'he believes everything I say', so perhaps the cio isn't really needed. :)


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/mfelix

But "lui crede che dico" isn't valid Italian. Google is just guessing there. The ciò is definitely needed, or possibly quello.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/AntonyHodgson

I guess I still don't understand why cio is definitely needed. There are certainly constructions like this where 'cio' is not needed (eg, credo che tu sei gentile). Is the 'cio' needed after 'crede tutto' because 'tutto' is the thing believed and 'dico' is modifying 'tutto', whereas in my example the 'tu sei gentile' is the thing believed and there's no modifier? (btw, I never trust GT, especially on anything other than the simplest of phrases - it really doesn't understand most tenses at all).


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/mfelix

Basically these are two different ways to use credere: credere che + independent clause, and credere + object. Like in English, where we could say "I believe that you are smart" vs. "I believe your words". In "credo che tu sia gentile" it's the first style, where the "che" is joining two independent clauses: "io credo" and "tu sia gentile". In "crede (tutto) ciò che dico", it's the second style, where "crede" is taking an object, which is "ciò che dico" ("that which I say").


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/RobBlaney

@AntonyHodgson: Thanks - that's very helpful, and confirms (simplifies!) what I have since found through additional research.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/EllieDearEllie

I'm sorry, it should be "crede A tutto ciò che dico". This Pronouns lessons are full of errors.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/rbaldassari

at this beginner level, i think credo tutto che dico should be accepted. Cio is a new word that would not be used at this level


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/ejuniorls

Why is "tutto" and not "tutti"?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/maz1269

i think it's because tutto here is not the adjective "every", but the pronoun "everything", which does not change with gender or number


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/rickdeckard71

"Crede - a - tutto ciò che dico." The Italian verb "credere" is intransitive, and can be only "credere a" or "credere in". "Credere a qualcosa". " Credere in Dio. You can use "credere a te" = "io ti credo" but it is dative case. "Credere" can be constructed as a transitive verb only as "Credo che... "="I think (that).. " or in the old constructions "essere creduto" (passive form) and "credere qualcosa", like "Lo credi anche tu?"= Credi quello/quella cosa anche tu?= Do you believe it too?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Giacomodas1

L'opzione di risposta è sbagliata, quella corretta è, "Crede, a tutto ciò che dico"


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/ciampix

(without comma) you are right, see my post...


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Susannaara2

Crede a tutto ciò che dico.... In italiano corretto...


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Laura552128

Crede A tutto cio che dico


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/ZDanielle

While correct, this is a formal way of speaking. Often people omit the ciò.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Sema486708

If I do not know cio meaning how can I answer? If I see first time cio how can be expect to choose right answer?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Liesbeth157662

From where does this ciò come all of a sudden? Would have been nice to have instruction on it ....


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Duomail

As "tutto" is also an adverb, how about "he believes totally/completely what I say" ?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/KatherineT463851

I believe that might be one of those rare situations where the modifier switches places, so it would become "tutto crede" to say that he believes entirely or completely.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Paulo333866

Why is everything not in the plural and therefore 'tutti'


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Jae633849

Lui è molto stupido e è facile approfittare di lui.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/pinky738990

It looks like 'he believes everything that that I say.'


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Dick403354

I have never seen the word "cio" before. One not include it in the tips? What dies it mean? Why isn't "che" on its own correct?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/rickdeckard71

"ciò (mind it, with the accent) = quello...Tutto ciò che dice= tutto quello che dice. In Italian, with "tutto" one cannot say "Tutto che dice": one must add "quello or ciò" after tutto, so it becomes: tutto quello/ciò che dice. Tutto ciò che vuoi Tutto ciò che dice Tutto quanto/ tutto ciò/ tutto quello che etc etc

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