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"Loro si saranno sentiti come fratelli."

Translation:They will have felt like brothers.

August 17, 2014

40 Comments


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/GregHullender

Interpreted as the Conjectural Future Tense I think this would translate to "They must have felt like brothers," which seems a lot more natural.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/mjustiniano1

I appreciate that you have commented on most of the excercises in this session. With the exception of a few, most of DL's future perfect English translations don't seem to work for me...


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Margaret_S

Don't lose hope. Remember that this tense is conjecture; the english translation isn't smooth. GregHullender's comments re '...must have...' have been a great help to me in understanding this section.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/mattcarrelo

We could really do with some longer sentences here that give some context... and actual examples of its usage


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/nerevarine1138

If you check out the "Tips and Tricks" at the main page for this section (you won't see it on mobile), it gives you a rundown of how this tense is generally used in Italian.

And just for everyone's benefit, the conjectural future is accepted as an answer for this sentence (and others where it makes sense).


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Marninger

I think these are tricky ones . .

sentire = to sens but sentirsi = to feel

In present tens:
Si sentono come fratelli = They feel like brothers.

In futuro semplice:
Si sentiranno come fratelli = They will feel like brothers

And in futuro anteriore:
Loro si saranno sentiti come fratelli = They will/must have felt like brothers

The full conjugation table for Sentirsi in futuro anteriore looks like this:

mi sarò sentito/a
ti sarai sentito/a
si sarà sentito/a
ci saremo sentiti/e
vi sarete sentiti/e
si saranno sentiti/e

I feel like part of my brain just passed out through a loophole in spacetime!!?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/d_johnson6609

that makes more sense =o)


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Maxim861877

Well, Greg, your variant does sound a lot more natural, but describes a conjecture about the past, right? But DL claims we are dealing with a conjecture about the future here, which is a tad different ;)


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/nerevarine1138

Actually, as mentioned above (and in the tips section for this lesson), the conjectural future (can have, must have) is acceptable here. The future perfect tense in Italian can translate to both the future perfect and conjectural future in English.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/ToddDowty

It seems that every set has be totally confused and this one is right up there. I thought we're learning future tense (of some sort), but this, like many other questions, seem more past tense to me. What is DL trying to teach in the set??!!


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/nerevarine1138

It's trying to teach us that the future perfect tense in Italian is more flexible than its direct English translation.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/DerekWitten

Why is the 'si' necessary here?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/nerevarine1138

To make the verb reflexive. "Sentire" literally means "to sense" (it can mean "to hear" or "to smell"). "Sentirsi" means to feel (something emotional).


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/SeanBaker1973

I was thinking the same thing. And the one reply you got before mine doesn't help. :-)


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/nerevarine1138

What was confusing about the explanation? I'm not sure how else to describe the difference except to say that "sentirsi" is "to feel".


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/SeanBaker1973

The sentence doesn't say "sentirsi". It says, "sentiti". Derek (and I) are referring to the "si" that follows "Loro" and precedes "saranno". It seems entirely superfluous. Wouldn't "Loro saranno sentiti come fratelli." mean the same thing? Wouldn't it also be grammatically correct?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/nerevarine1138

Ah, I see the confusion.

"Sentirsi" is the infinitive form of the verb. In this sentence, the full conjugation of that verb in the future perfect is "si saranno sentiti". The "si" is there because it's reflexive. If it were a sentence about how I will have felt, it would be "Mi saro' sentito...".

When you take out the reflexive pronoun, you change the meaning of the sentence. Your second sentence would be grammatically correct, but it would not mean the same thing ("They will have heard/smelled/sensed like brothers.").

Edit: I wrote that second part too quickly. You would need to change the verb to "avere" for it to (kind of) make sense: "avranno sentito".


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/ronaldsantoro243

How about "They will have felt themselves like brothers"? It sounds like good English to me, especially because of the reflexive. Any ideas?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/nerevarine1138

That's pretty awkward English. Even though the verb is reflexive, when you say something like "felt themselves," it sounds like they're literally touching their own bodies, not that they are experiencing an emotion.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/phil521387

In my opinion there's nothing awkward about the sentence ronaldsantoro suggests. Below is an extract from a written lecture by the Blessed John Henry Newman:

'They felt themselves strong enough, in their position, to pronounce “that the doctrine ...'


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/nerevarine1138

Blessed John Henry Newman died in 1890.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Keith352848

If we are doing sentences that actually don't have anything like a direct translation from one language to the other, mine, which was rejected — "They will have felt to each other like brothers." — is much more accurate. This happens constantly in this segment. Duo's English translation begs the question, to whom did they feel like brothers? Am I wrong? This is a really bad segment, Duo, especially with no interactive element to the program that would help anyone get through it.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/nerevarine1138

They felt like brothers [among themselves]. The reflexive verb doesn't need a stated object, because it's already reflexive.

The DL sentence is weird, but your proposed translation adds words in the wrong place that confuse the meaning. Just ignore the tense. If you were talking about a squadron of soldiers in a combat zone, for example, saying "They must feel like brothers," would make perfect sense.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Keith352848

Thank you, nerevarine. Now please look at this: In this same set of exercises we have, "Loro due si saranno lasciati già." And according to Duo, the correct English translation is "The two of them will have left each other already..." Why is it proper to translate the object pronoun into English in one sentence, and important that it remain absent in the other? "They will have felt like brothers" means precisely the same thing as "They will have felt to each other like brothers." The verb may not need a stated object but it's there. What does Duo think that it is offering me by nitpicking at my English when my answer is, in fact, what the Italian says???


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/nerevarine1138

Because the "each other" is absolutely necessary for clarity in your other example. But in English, adding the "each other" in this sentence makes it wrong. It's just a quirk of English that the object of reflexive verbs doesn't always need to be stated. You could maybe get away with "To each other, they will have felt like brothers," but that still sounds redundant.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/SchubertNo21

It is in your mind and not the fault of Duo. They are not nit-picking your sentence, For goodness sake. they have a system that cannot cover every possibility of sentencing, and there is not one man there checking each person's offered sentence attempt. Get real, the course is free. Use it don't abuse it.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/mjw360

they will have themselves brothers, to me, is equivalent


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/nerevarine1138

"They will have themselves brothers," makes no sense in English. What meaning are you trying to express there?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/AnthonyCimino8

why is the word 'si'(she) in this sentence?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/nerevarine1138

"Si" is used because this is a reflexive verb. It doesn't mean "she", though. It's just part of the conjugation of a reflexive verb for the third person singular or plural, regardless of gender.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Olivia252402

Why is 'saranno' used in this case instead of the conjugated form of 'avere'?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/nerevarine1138

Reflexive verbs always take "essere" when conjugated in the past/present/future/etc. perfect.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/ronaldsantoro243

There is no audio on this exercise. Hope it can be corrected because I can't move on without it.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Terri301832

loro avranno sentiti come fratelli actually says what you mean to say here!


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/nerevarine1138

No. The verb being used here is "sentirsi," which requires a reflexive pronoun and can only be conjugated with "essere" in a perfect tense. The non-reflexive "sentire" can refer to a variety of different senses, but it's most commonly used for feeling (in the sense of literally feeling something with your sense of touch) or hearing. It doesn't carry the same meaning as "feel" in this sentence.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Dan331603

Jesus H Christ am I glad a quarter of the world speak English. Don't talk to me about tense! My blood pressure goes through the roof trying to figure out this dopey language.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/nerevarine1138

Ah, English. The simplest language with the clearest rules and easiest vocabulary set. It's so much better than one of these "dopey" Romance languages.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/sadeghTabibniya

could "They will have felt themselves like brothers" be correct answer

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