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  5. "Loro si saranno sentiti come…

"Loro si saranno sentiti come fratelli."

Translation:They will have felt like brothers.

August 17, 2014



Interpreted as the Conjectural Future Tense I think this would translate to "They must have felt like brothers," which seems a lot more natural.


I appreciate that you have commented on most of the excercises in this session. With the exception of a few, most of DL's future perfect English translations don't seem to work for me...


Don't lose hope. Remember that this tense is conjecture; the english translation isn't smooth. GregHullender's comments re '...must have...' have been a great help to me in understanding this section.


We could really do with some longer sentences here that give some context... and actual examples of its usage


If you check out the "Tips and Tricks" at the main page for this section (you won't see it on mobile), it gives you a rundown of how this tense is generally used in Italian.

And just for everyone's benefit, the conjectural future is accepted as an answer for this sentence (and others where it makes sense).


I think these are tricky ones . .

sentire = to sens but sentirsi = to feel

In present tens:
Si sentono come fratelli = They feel like brothers.

In futuro semplice:
Si sentiranno come fratelli = They will feel like brothers

And in futuro anteriore:
Loro si saranno sentiti come fratelli = They will/must have felt like brothers

The full conjugation table for Sentirsi in futuro anteriore looks like this:

mi sarò sentito/a
ti sarai sentito/a
si sarà sentito/a
ci saremo sentiti/e
vi sarete sentiti/e
si saranno sentiti/e

I feel like part of my brain just passed out through a loophole in spacetime!!?


that makes more sense =o)


Well, Greg, your variant does sound a lot more natural, but describes a conjecture about the past, right? But DL claims we are dealing with a conjecture about the future here, which is a tad different ;)


Actually, as mentioned above (and in the tips section for this lesson), the conjectural future (can have, must have) is acceptable here. The future perfect tense in Italian can translate to both the future perfect and conjectural future in English.


It seems that every set has be totally confused and this one is right up there. I thought we're learning future tense (of some sort), but this, like many other questions, seem more past tense to me. What is DL trying to teach in the set??!!


It's trying to teach us that the future perfect tense in Italian is more flexible than its direct English translation.


Why is the 'si' necessary here?


To make the verb reflexive. "Sentire" literally means "to sense" (it can mean "to hear" or "to smell"). "Sentirsi" means to feel (something emotional).


I was thinking the same thing. And the one reply you got before mine doesn't help. :-)


What was confusing about the explanation? I'm not sure how else to describe the difference except to say that "sentirsi" is "to feel".


The sentence doesn't say "sentirsi". It says, "sentiti". Derek (and I) are referring to the "si" that follows "Loro" and precedes "saranno". It seems entirely superfluous. Wouldn't "Loro saranno sentiti come fratelli." mean the same thing? Wouldn't it also be grammatically correct?


Ah, I see the confusion.

"Sentirsi" is the infinitive form of the verb. In this sentence, the full conjugation of that verb in the future perfect is "si saranno sentiti". The "si" is there because it's reflexive. If it were a sentence about how I will have felt, it would be "Mi saro' sentito...".

When you take out the reflexive pronoun, you change the meaning of the sentence. Your second sentence would be grammatically correct, but it would not mean the same thing ("They will have heard/smelled/sensed like brothers.").

Edit: I wrote that second part too quickly. You would need to change the verb to "avere" for it to (kind of) make sense: "avranno sentito".


How about "They will have felt themselves like brothers"? It sounds like good English to me, especially because of the reflexive. Any ideas?


That's pretty awkward English. Even though the verb is reflexive, when you say something like "felt themselves," it sounds like they're literally touching their own bodies, not that they are experiencing an emotion.


In my opinion there's nothing awkward about the sentence ronaldsantoro suggests. Below is an extract from a written lecture by the Blessed John Henry Newman:

'They felt themselves strong enough, in their position, to pronounce “that the doctrine ...'


Blessed John Henry Newman died in 1890.


If we are doing sentences that actually don't have anything like a direct translation from one language to the other, mine, which was rejected — "They will have felt to each other like brothers." — is much more accurate. This happens constantly in this segment. Duo's English translation begs the question, to whom did they feel like brothers? Am I wrong? This is a really bad segment, Duo, especially with no interactive element to the program that would help anyone get through it.


They felt like brothers [among themselves]. The reflexive verb doesn't need a stated object, because it's already reflexive.

The DL sentence is weird, but your proposed translation adds words in the wrong place that confuse the meaning. Just ignore the tense. If you were talking about a squadron of soldiers in a combat zone, for example, saying "They must feel like brothers," would make perfect sense.


Thank you, nerevarine. Now please look at this: In this same set of exercises we have, "Loro due si saranno lasciati già." And according to Duo, the correct English translation is "The two of them will have left each other already..." Why is it proper to translate the object pronoun into English in one sentence, and important that it remain absent in the other? "They will have felt like brothers" means precisely the same thing as "They will have felt to each other like brothers." The verb may not need a stated object but it's there. What does Duo think that it is offering me by nitpicking at my English when my answer is, in fact, what the Italian says???


Because the "each other" is absolutely necessary for clarity in your other example. But in English, adding the "each other" in this sentence makes it wrong. It's just a quirk of English that the object of reflexive verbs doesn't always need to be stated. You could maybe get away with "To each other, they will have felt like brothers," but that still sounds redundant.


It is in your mind and not the fault of Duo. They are not nit-picking your sentence, For goodness sake. they have a system that cannot cover every possibility of sentencing, and there is not one man there checking each person's offered sentence attempt. Get real, the course is free. Use it don't abuse it.


they will have themselves brothers, to me, is equivalent


"They will have themselves brothers," makes no sense in English. What meaning are you trying to express there?


why is the word 'si'(she) in this sentence?


"Si" is used because this is a reflexive verb. It doesn't mean "she", though. It's just part of the conjugation of a reflexive verb for the third person singular or plural, regardless of gender.


Why is 'saranno' used in this case instead of the conjugated form of 'avere'?


Reflexive verbs always take "essere" when conjugated in the past/present/future/etc. perfect.


There is no audio on this exercise. Hope it can be corrected because I can't move on without it.


loro avranno sentiti come fratelli actually says what you mean to say here!


No. The verb being used here is "sentirsi," which requires a reflexive pronoun and can only be conjugated with "essere" in a perfect tense. The non-reflexive "sentire" can refer to a variety of different senses, but it's most commonly used for feeling (in the sense of literally feeling something with your sense of touch) or hearing. It doesn't carry the same meaning as "feel" in this sentence.


Jesus H Christ am I glad a quarter of the world speak English. Don't talk to me about tense! My blood pressure goes through the roof trying to figure out this dopey language.


Ah, English. The simplest language with the clearest rules and easiest vocabulary set. It's so much better than one of these "dopey" Romance languages.


could "They will have felt themselves like brothers" be correct answer

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