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E eu sou totalmente contra uma proposta pedagógica ridícula do uso de ADEQUADO (ex: nós vamos, tu és ...) e INADEQUADO (a gente vamos, tu é...) para evitar constrangimento de fulano que fala errado, isso inclui o professor que é pago para ensinar (quanta ironia, coisas de brasileiros). Sou a favor do ensino correto! Gosto de compartilhar conhecimentos, não “burrices”.
Mas eu não disse que estava certo '-' É só o que acontece frequentemente. E eu devo discordar um pouco com você, acho que devemos escrever bem, mas em relação à fala, dependendo da intimidade, não precisamos ser tão formais. Até porque a escrita é nada mais nada menos que a imatação do que falamos, uma forma de representar. Um língua é eficaz a partir do momento em que ela tem sentido e é compreendida pelos seus ouvintes.
Exatamente!! Eu li um texto aqui no Duolingo de um estrangeiro, onde ele procurava portugueses para praticar a língua portuguesa, porque os brasileiros não possuem o domínio da própria língua, eu expliquei para ele que é um equívoco afirmar que todos os brasileiros falam errados, usam gírias ou palavras feias o tempo todo como estava no texto, é difícil mudar essa imagem dos brasileiros: futebol, festas, agora semianalfabetos.
Neia Thank you for helping. We have a friend who das an exchange student with us years ago. She game to visita ano brought a disc of Tom Jobin's music. When I got a chance to play it. It was in português. I thought why did She bring that version until I realized I could understand some parte of the songs. She later told me She learned english by listening to music.
Native speakers often come here to help other people out - how else would you know these regional differences on the use of "Tu" in Brazil?
Since many of them are learning English, they're also doing the reverse tree (they're not relearning Portuguese, they're just trying to go through the course to read the English in the comments and learn more from the native English users who are currently learning Portuguese).
There are also many expatriates who are just honing their skills in order to use them in real life (in Brazil or any other Portuguese-speaking country) - they're just testing their knowledge before actually going out and using Portuguese "in the field".
Oui, mais chez eux le "tu" est informel même entre amis, dans la capitale par exemple l'utilisation de "tu" est délicate et peut signifier un manque de respect. Le concept est à peu près proche du tu/vous français, mais pas l'utilisation. Bref, vaut mieux garder você et laisser tomber le tu à présent, c'est d'ailleurs plus facile vu que ça donne une forme conjugale de moins!
Ok so I'm totally confused...yet again. I am trying to learn Portuguese to go on holiday to Portugal, do I use 'tu' or 'você', I mean is someone going to give me funny looks and call the loony bin when I start saying 'ohhh, thou hast a lovely dog' etc.? Or do I just hope everyone speaks English and shout slowly at them when they don't?! I'm really enjoying learning this language but I'm beginning to wonder if it's worth continuing!
In Portugal, you should use "você" (especially the 3rd person conjugations) for people you have to be formal with (shop/hotel/museum clerks, café owners, etc.) or people who are older than you. If you want to be extra polite, you can use "O senhor" (Mr.) or "A senhora" (Ma'am/madam). You can use "tu" conjugations with people who are the same age as you.
One quick note: when approaching someone for the first time, don't use the actual pronouns - people might find it rude if you start a conversation with "Tu" or "Você" (at least to me, it would seem as if someone was calling me like a lackey, which is not very nice). Always start with a pleasantry (Bom dia! and Boa tarde! are key) and if you want to ask questions, using the correct conjugation of the verb points people in the way of how cordial/formal you're being with them - example:
- Pode ajudar-me, por favor ("pode" is 3rd person - therefore formal). Can you help me, please?
Podes ajudar-me, por favor ("podes" is 2nd person - therefore informal).
Posso pedir-lhe uma informação? ("lhe" is a 3rd person pronoun - formal). May I ask you for [a piece of] information?
Posso pedir-te uma informação? ("te" is a 2nd person pronoun - informal).
Sabe onde fica a casa de banho mais próxima? (3rd person - formal). Do you know where the closest restroom is?
- Sabes onde fica a casa de banho mais próxima? (2nd person - informal)
This is almost correct. I'm brazilian, and tu is not common, there regions that use tu but not so much, the most common is você, tu is a conjugation we hardly ever use. For example: I use tu just to talk with my closest friends, because in my region tu is very informal, so we use this to talk with friends, for a job interview or even meet someone use tu is a little rude.
Você is mostly used in Brazil (it depends, except the state of Maranhão and southern Brazil which use mostly "tu". As I'm Brazilian, from the State of São Paulo (southeastern Brazil) and influenced by the Portuguese literature, I tend mostly "tu". I used to use "você" during my teenage life. Since I changed myself a lot and became an erudite person, I replaced for "tu.
"Tu" is mostly used in Portuguese, but it depends too, for example, in Lisbon, Porto and some certain regions, they use mostly "você".
A chart showing where "TU" and "VOCÊ" (and other) are more commonly used in Europe, America and Africa: https://pt.wikipedia.org/wiki/Portugu%C3%AAs_brasileiro#/media/File:Segunda_pessoa_do_singular_no_portugu%C3%AAs.png
What ? second time around the choice does not propose the right answer !!! It proposed Tu ..... Leio, lemos or leem. I knew it was lês but could not write it as you had to choose among the proposals. Lose-lose situation twice in one exercise. What's going wrong ? give me back my 2 stolen hearts LOL :)
Você shares the same etymological root of usted (short for vuestra merced) - which you can check out in my comment here - but they differ in use, as você is for everyday/informal use. The reason why many brazilians - as Andrew48's friends - see tu as actually more formal than você, you can check out in my comment here.
My Brazilian friends tell me that no one uses "tu" because it's way too formal. They could be wrong, and it could have disappeared for the opposite reason (i.e. it became too informal, like the "thou" in English), but it's definitely "você" that is used in everyday speech in Brazil.