A big thanks to our German native speakers
It's very helpful that there are a few German native speakers that participate in the forums and in sentence discussion threads. There are insights that we would otherwise not get from Duolingo and online references. Anyway, I just anted to say thanks to those that take the time to participate here to help the rest of us out!
Ich erinnere mich an dich... glaub' dass du mir vorher geholfen hast... wohl eher viele Mal! Danke, kunstkr1tik.
Gern geschehen :) People help me learning portuguese and in return I want to help other people who are learning german.
:D Nett von dir. Wenn ich denn eine Frage hab', werd' ich dir fragen. ;)
- dich fragen.
If you don't have a preposition that triggers dative/accusative and / or if you can't use "es", you use accusative. So it is dich. At least I can't think of something to prove me wrong at the moment.
EDIT There are counterexamples for my theory (see ubdip's posts) So I guess that you should see it more as a rule of thumb
- Ich sage es dir.
- Ich grüße dich.
- Ich beneide dich.
- Ich gebe es dir.
verbs that are built with prepositions don't count for my examples, because prepositions like an, auf, unter, etc. determine the acc. or dat. case themself already.
Maybe that helps you further with the cases.
Oooh, danke. Das wusste ich gar nicht.
Also... kannst du mir bitte ein paar Beispiele für Dativ und Akkusitiv geben? (mit dem Wort "Fragen", meine ich)
Sorry, jetzt versteh' ich. xD Brauche die Beispiele nicht mehr.
I have counterexamples: Ich glaube dir. Ich schreibe dir.
But you are partly right, because normally after a dative object there can(!) be an accussative object, but it is not always necessary.
Typically you have to learn if a verb has a dative and/or an accussative object, but there are rules of thumb. E.g. a dative object usually participates in some way such as receiving something: Ich gebe dir eine Münze. (I give you a coin.) Ich schreibe dir (einen Briefe). (I write you (a letter)) Ich glaube dir. (I believe you)
An accusative object normally describes something that is used for something or that endures the action of the subject: Ich schlage dich. (I beat you) I schreibe den Brief. (I write the letter)
I hope this clarifies it a little bit.
@ubdip while you are correct I have to say that "Ich glaube es dir" and "Ich schreibe es dir" are also a way to express basicly the same.
On the other side you wouldn't say "Ich grüße es dich" or "Ich frage es dich". So I guess I should look for a better verb than "need" in my post.
But "es" is just a placeholder for the object, no?
Ich sage dir etwas (3 - 4) Ich frage dich etwas (4 - 4) Ich gebe dir etwas (3 -4) Ich liebe dich etwas (ha. gotcha)
EDIT: What i'm saying, i guess, is that some verbs require an object, while some don't. This, afaik, has no bearing on the declination of the pronoun.
@mainad I guess it is a bit late and I am tired ^^ when I wrote what I wrote I just couldn't think of anything to disprove myself.
Maybe this topic is not really explainable like the german plural of words and has to be learnt for every verb if it calls for dative or accusative. But I thought that it at least goes into the right direction. I wouldn't say that you need to think about the "etwas" thing, I mean it is correct that you can say it with all the examples so I guess we should just focus on the es part (if you can use it or not).
Because I still don't think that I am totally wrong with assuming that if you can / have to use "es" , you probably need a dative object.
- Ich erwische dich / Ich erwische es dir
- Ich finde dich / Ich finde es dir ~
- ~ should mean that it sounds awkward but is not wrong I guess.
Yes, I just went there to give examples where both things are possible, depending if you use es or not. I could probably go on with it but basicly I think it is a nice rule of thumb so far. Maybe I just should go to sleep now, lol. Maybe I will look at this tomorrow and think "What did I wrote there?" but maybe this whole thing is worth thinking about.
Interesting thread (especially for the locals since it's not something we EVER think about )
Your examples both work, and have different meanings.
Ich erwische dich (i catch you) Ich erwische es dir = Ich erwische es fuer dich (i'll catch it for you)
Ich finde dich (i find you) Ich finde es dir = Ich finde es fuer dich (i'll find it for you)
In both cases the object (dich/es) is accusative. (while "dir" is a possessive something-or-other).
How does one ever learn this?
@mainad in your examples
- Ich erwische es für dich
we have the preposition für again which calls for accusative. The sentence has the same meaning as Ich erwische es dir. But I already wrote that I wanted to exclude prepositions.
Currently I think it is really a nice rule of thumb to remember when to use accusative- or dative objects.
I have to say that natives do these kind of mistakes all the time. Just as switching wie & als or wegen dem stuff ... so it isn't that easy I guess but definitely possible to get into with enough practise
I'm a native Portuguese speaker, but you don't need my help you're doing fine on your own! ;D
Hey, i speak portuguese and english, and i really want to learn german! add me on facebook ( https://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100002488071843 ) Thx!
You're welcome! This is a great motivation to continue posting in the discussion forums and helping you guys and girls out.
I just started my German tree....but thank you guys so much for what you do :)
Ich auch. :) Es ist meine lieblingssprache.. naja von denen ich sprechen kann... die zwei sind. :P
Ich hab' das gleiche Gefühl! Viele Deutschen hier haben mir viel geholfen, also.. danke schön! :P
Can someone correct this if necessary? Thanks in advance!
Wir bitten Sie! Ihren Fahrschein bis zum ausgang aufzubewahren, da die Fahrscheine und Zeitkarten ganzen Gebiet der U-Bahn kontrolliert werden können.