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Does 'geen' and 'niet' work like 'kein' and 'nicht'?

Like if you say in Dutch: Ik spreek geen Nederlands. 'Geen' seems to work like 'kein' in this sentence where it only negates the noun. The same sentence in German: Ich spreche kein Niederlandisch.

I notice that 'niet' is kinda like 'nicht' in that it seems to negate the sentence as a whole. Ik eet (on Thursdays) niet. Ich esse am Donnerstags nicht.

But can it move around in the sentence like 'nicht' can or does it only go at the end of the sentence? Ich esse am Donnerstags nicht. Ich esse nicht am Donnerstags.

4 years ago

13 Comments


https://www.duolingo.com/Lavinae
Lavinae
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Hi CreeperGhostGirl!

Have you seen this post?
It gives you a complete explanation of when to use 'geen' and 'niet'.

From the top of my head I can tell you that whereas "nicht ein" is not really accepted in the German course, in Dutch we do use "niet een" and "geen" in some cases. We are thus more flexible in this respect. When German uses 'kein' we use 'geen', but 'niet een' can also be ok (though caution is required and 'geen' is your safest bet).

I've been working on the German course and I've been noticing that 'nicht' seems to take the same position as it would have in Dutch, in most if not all sentences.

AgimZerolli is right with regards to the position that the adverb 'niet' can take in a sentence. It is not necessarily placed at the end of a sentence. Not at all, in fact. :)

4 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/SkillsInPills

No I hadn't seen that post! Thank you for linking it to me. It seems to work a lot like German but of course as you said you can't say 'nicht ein' but 'niet een' is allowed in Dutch.

4 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/Bockenheim

"Nicht is an adverb, and so you will always find it either before or after a verb, adjective or fellow adverb. It usually precedes an adverb or an adjective, but likes to settle after conjugated verbs. (So think opposite of English)" Source: http://german.about.com/od/grammar/a/The-Position-Of-Nicht.htm

Hope that helps

Also: "On the other hand, nicht likes to travel all the way to the end of a sentence at times. This happens most often with declarative sentences. "

Read up on the site for more information.

4 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/LupoMikti
LupoMikti
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Not a native Dutch speaker here, but from my experience so far with Dutch word order being the same as German, I believe that they do, in fact, work the same. More so with "geen" and "kein" as I haven't come across an example where the position of niet was different from the expected norm.

4 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/Lavinae
Lavinae
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Hey!

Dutch word order is not the same as in German.
Dutch is more flexible in this respect.
In fact, Dutch grammar tends to be more flexible in general.

I've been failing many lessons in my German tree exactly because I tend to use examples of Dutch word order that are not acceptable in German. :)

4 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/helmad
helmad
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Hoi Lavina,

Volgens mij is het ook zo dat de Duitse correcties niet altijd alle mogelijke volgordes accepteren. Mijn Duits is weliswaar roestig (hmm weggezakt neem ik aan, in beter Nederlands), maar sommige van mijn 'foute volgorde' antwoorden zijn prima. Ik heb het natuurlijk niet over de stringente bijzin volgorde regels, waar NL inderdaad meer vrijheid laat. Maar sommige bijwoordelijke bepalingen laten zich best verplaatsen en de lessen laten niet altijd al die mogelijkheden toe.

4 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/christian
christian
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Je hebt natuurlijk gelijk dat er nog veel vertalingen ontbreken en we zijn dankbaar voor jullie suggesties. Vaak is het echter zo dat een bepaalde volgorde theoretisch mogelijk is maar in de praktijk heel awkward klinkt. Dus accepteren we sommige vertalingen niet.

4 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/helmad
helmad
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Ja, het gaat in de voorbeelden geloof ik vooral om tijdsbepalingen, die met de juiste intonatie patronen redelijk verplaatsbaar zijn?

4 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/Lavinae
Lavinae
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Hoi Helmad!

Bedankt voor het delen van jouw ervaringen met de Duitse cursus!

Dat zou inderdaad heel goed kunnen. Er kan veel aan de Duitse cursus verbeterd worden, dat vinden de contributors zelf ook. Gelukkig komen er heel veel verbeteringen aan. :)

4 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/SkillsInPills

I've read that Dutch is more similar to English word order and that it has no case system.

4 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/Susande
Susande
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Dutch word order is a lot closer to German, than it is to English.

4 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/RaizinM
RaizinM
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It's true everyday Dutch doesn't use any case system anymore, outside of pronouns. (ik/mij/mijn, jij/jou/jouw, wij/ons/onze, etc.) Basically like in English. However, in old phrases sometimes the genitive case still survives. For example "het zwaard der gerechtigheid" is a fancier slightly old-fashioned way of saying "het zwaard van gerechtigheid" (the sword of justice). The same is true for "het woord Gods" (modern Dutch: het woord van God, the word of God), "de engel des doods" (modern: de engel van de dood, the angel of death), "de heer des huizes" (modern: de heer van het huis, the lord of the home, i.e. the husband/father), etcetera. But apart from remnants like this it's VERY rare.

4 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/SkillsInPills

You know with a lot of the phrases you mentioned I was able to guess the meaning. Especially with 'gerechtigheid' it sounds very similar to Gerechtigkeit.

4 years ago