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- "I eat both vegetables and me…
"I eat both vegetables and meat."
Translation:Io mangio sia verdura che carne.
220 Comments
I don't understand why "che" is used in this sentence when "e" would be appropriate. Can anyone help please?
Actually it wouldn't be appropriate because when constructing a sentence with sia there should be che after it. just remember it like that.
- sia....che..... = both....and
- sia....o..........= whether....or....
Also if you are referring to more than two things like: "Both me and Marco, George and Jeff" then construction would be like: "Sia io che Marco, George e Jeff"
It would be nice if the message after we get something wrong always had a reminder of the rule we missed.
I understand your point, but that would change everything and that's not how Duo works. You have the tips sections, plus discussion for Q&As and can go searching online yourself! :).
I think it's an amazing way to learn, words and rules do filter in by repetition and variation and the method of learning forces you to learn rules to progress! At the moment it's quickfire and fun, it would be a whole different ball game if (long) grammar explanations appeared after or between questions. (Not good).
Plus you get different people explaining the same thing slightly differently and I find the sum gives me a fuller understanding.
754
It's great when the question is responded to, but there are times when no one responds to a person's query and this can prove to be frustrating. It's only fun when you understand something. It's great to be able to find the answer when you search this section and yes, often there are wonderful explanations and sites to go to, but when there is not it can prove to be frustrating. A rule like this one would work well in the tips section.
I completely agree. I struggle in math class eversince we got a young new teacher who can only explain it his way. It's so much better when you can hear different explanation so that you can get it and be able to build on a good foundation. I love these little comment forums.
Unfortunately the notes/tips section is often quite lacking and lots of questions go unanswered. It would be SO MUCH BETTER if the notes and tips had more substance and detail. Not everyone has unlimited time to go researching every grammar rule
- 535
Not only that, but when grammar eggheads start talking about past particibles and that crap, I am lost.
Correct! As a child learning your native language, your elders simply said , " no, it's not.... it's .... repeated often enouhg you learn the correct way without all the technical reasons.
- 281
Yes we learn language as a child by learning the patterns. Grammar rules are only learnt at school when we are already pretty fluent.
MLarson2 have a lingot. So glad i am not the only one that feels lost when the comments get so grammatically deep... :))
I totally agree with you. I feel this way, I am forced to look things up and really research things that I just don't understand. There's a lot of other resources out there and it's okay to step outside the box. I love the way Duo was designed and I wouldn't want to change a thing about it I feel I learned so much so quickly this way.
I agree, but the tips section often tells you something and then the practice learns something else. So the middle way would be perfect No long rules but a short note from a DUO professor or native, as comments here can be posted by anyone and are not always correct.
- 754
What a great idea! Even better it would be great if this rule were listed in a special section.
The French course for English speakers has something like this. The explanations are not always pertinent.
This is actually a feature that they are trying out and I see more and more!
One of the previous questions uses sia twice (for the girl and the boy want chocolate cake example: sia la ragazza sia il ragazzo vogliono). It does not use che after sia... Is that because it doesn't say/translate the word 'both'?
I used sia twice for this example and it was marked as correct. I am just now learning that I probably should have wrote sia... che
I used sia twice (using PC at present) and it marked me wrong, even though it was used as the suggestion and I have used this construction before. It's annoying that DL is not consistent - and even varies between PC and app.
I suspect that DL is consistent- it is simply that the rules in Italian aren't always completely straightforward (though moreso than my native English!)
- 402
Sia ..sia...is correct. The problem with Sia che is that CHE is used a lot in sentences and the Italians dislike repetition. Mangio sia la verdura sia la carne is accepted by DL.
But what about that other sentence in this lesson that goes "sia la ragazza sia il ragazzo vogliono la torta al cioccolato"? I'm so confused...
This explains perfectly, thanks. BUT 'both me and Marco, etc.' Is not good English grammar. Should be 'both Marco and I, non e verro?
That depends - it is correct if you and Marco are the objects of the sentence, for example "He cooked lunch for both me and Marco". If you are the subjects it should be "Both Marco and I cooked lunch".
True about using "me" when the first person is the object, however, it should read "He cooked lunch for both Marco and me".
- 339
In English, the easiest way to work it out is if it makes sense if the other person were to be removed from the sentence:
(Marco and) I went to the park
He gave (Marco and me) a lift to the park
not (Marco and) me went to the park
Right , because if you make it singular you would say he cooked lunch for me ( not i )
If you ask whether you should use me or i when talking about more people other than yourself, think about what you would use if singular. Ie: mike and i are going ( think: i am going not me am going)
- 818
I always goes 2nd, me always goes 1st. So I am going or Mark and I are going. He is taking me or he is taking me and mark.
It is easier to remember that that 'and I' replaces 'we' whilst 'and me' replaces 'us'
- 152
"Sia...sia..." is also used to express 'both'. The two are interchangeable.
Whether it is "sia...sia..." or "sia...che..." is based on which one sounds better in the sentence.
Ok, so what would make one of these sound "better"? I just got burned on this myself, not knowing it was interchangeable with "sia...che"
- 79
In English, it is considered polite to put the other person (s) first and yourself last, so your example would be "Marco, George, Jeff and I" (assuming they are the subjects of the sentence). Is this the same in Italian?
In English, when one is referring to more than two things or people one would not use "both" but would simply list the names, putting oneself last i.e. Marco, George, Jeff and I/me (depending on context). It is new to me that in Italian this construction can be used for more than two people. Very useful!
They start the lesson, ny telling us that SIA means "is" then gone on to use it to mean something completely different. How confusing is that.
- 402
The absolute correct way ? Is Sia ....Sia. Meaning both....and. Sia....che has crept in and is widely used. Piutosto....che is now creeping in. I'm sticking with Sia...Sia. My only reference is native Italian.
- 206
I understand what you've said and I appreciate the explanation, but could you also give me a counter example? When wouldn't I use che and instead use e or ed and why?
But in the earlier example it used sia twice: "cucino sia la carne sia la verdura". So why isn't it another sia instead of che?
- 402
I believe that Sia does not always have to be followed by Che. I agree that Sia...Che.....means Either...Or.......and also Both..And.
However Sia can also be followed by another Sia. to give the same meaning. I I understand the construction to be like this.... Mangio sia la verdura sia la carne or of the form... Mangio Sia di carne sia di pesce.
Thankyou ; )) Please have a lingot for joining my.. Comments most helpful list
http://www.accademiadellacrusca.it/it/node/591
here it says "sia...sia" it's the originally correct form but all italians use "sia...che" or "sia...sia" the same way so no problem at all.
in lesson 1 there was a sentence: "mangio sia verdura sia carne".... ..why twice "sia" if below it is explained "sia.....che" ??? we had not learned yet with an example "sia...che"
- 1205
The construction in the notes found in the app shows only sia...sia, no mention of sia...che.
What is the difference between
- sia ... che ... and
- sia ... sia ...
I believe both mean "both ... and ...".
How to distinguish when to use which as a translation?!
Thank you ekmarvi and gordon_gregory for pointing out sia...sia versus sia....che. I asked the same question a while back. Seems both will do but sia....sia is easier for me.
It doesn't seem so, since I used che instead of the second sia and that was specifically marked as wrong.
In my opinion absolutely yes. "Io mangio entrambi verdure e carne" should be accepted as well
No man I'm sorry it would be not. Only as an answer to "Mangi verdura o carne?" you could say "Mangio entrambi"
So "entrambi" could be used only as let's say a separate part of the sentence, not in connection with e.g. nouns?
i guess it can be used the same way as "both" but only when alone e.g. "entrambi i giocatori" = "both players"
as written above "both...and" are translated into "sia...che"
Well really nice of the duolingo team to indroduce che beforehand sarcasm
It would be nice to have an added tool such as grammar rules. There are many ways to learn granted. I find the more tools i have access to the more enjoyable the learning experience!
- 818
From the discussion above it appears that using sia twice also works. Perhaps there was another error in your construction?
- 400
I translated "Cucino sua la verdura sia il carne" as "I cook both vegetables and meat" and it was correct.
I then was asked to translate "I eat both vegetables and meat" so I did this by swapping "cucino" in the sentence above with "mangio" and it was marked wrong. What am I missing?
- 409
In another sentence in this section: "Both the boy and the girl want the chocolate cake," this grammar is not accepted. The translation is "Sia la ragazza sia il ragazzo..." Why should they be different?
- 1121
Would, "Mangio sia verdura sia carne" also be OK? For, "I cook both the meat and the vegetables" DL gave, "Cucina sia la carne sia la verdura" - maybe the "LA carne" and "LA verdura" make a difference?!
Why can't you do sia... sia here like we did for "sia la ragazza sia il ragazzo"?
I get sia….che, but isn't sia...sia also acceptable? I wrote "Io mangio sia verdure sia carne". It told me I was wrong. Am I?
i never know when to use a pronoun in the front of a sentence, sometimes i use one and it's wrong and sometimes when I don't use one it's wrong. Is there a rule for that.
What is the difference between "sia ... che" and "sia...sia"? How do you know when to use which? Sorry if it was already answered, but I didn't see it
- 152
There is no difference really. Either can be used. Italians use whichever sounds better in the sentence (same with "tra" and "fra").
I played with this a bit. I started with Mangio sia verdura sia carne and was marked wrong. I then changed it to Io mangio sia vendura sia carne and it was accepted with 'another correct solution'
People saying Duolingo should provide an explanation.... isn't that what is done here? Every time I need something explained, I hit the comment icon and read the explanation from native speakers.
I forgot the "sia...che" construction and tried "tanto verdura come carne", Does anyone have anything to say about this construction?
- 1833
If I understand correctly, "entrambi" can be used as a PRONOUN but not as a conjunction. Per esempio:
"Entrambi mi piace" = "I like both" (the word "entrambi" is a pronoun replacing a noun you already know).
When "both/and" is a CONJUNCTION, you need sia/sia or sia/che:
"Mi piace sia la frutta sia/che la verdura."
I made the mistake of using "entrambi" as a conjunction when i was last in Italy, and people looked at me strangely. ;-)
Then why is cucino sia la carne sia la verdura correct, using Sai as both and, and Duolingo please be more consistent
I'd like to know i/o 'sia - che' why is not acceptable 'entrambi' (=both). Could a native Italiano/a answer please?
Because Italian uses the simple form for describing something usual, while English uses the plural form of it.
Why does the word "io" have to be used? Doesn't the word "Mangio" have the "i" built into the verb. Why is it necessary to use "io" except for clarification?
Haha, I've learned Italian since high school but never came across this construction before. Maybe I didn't pay much attention... But thanks for the explanation guys!
David Fine. Me is object of the preposition for. Me always follows for or to or with. Never the word I.
vegetables is plural, however verdure was not accepted. Someone please explain why?
Verdura means vegetables, in the plural. Think of it as saying greens. There is no green (singular) in English either.
Is it wrong to say "entrambi" verdure e carne? if so why? Would someone please help me?
Could you please put the grammatical rules beneath the answer? Just a quick explanation like 'che follows sia' would suffice.
The explanation below seems right, but in other instances I noticed that sia was used both times. Is there a rule about that. I still don't get the "che" in that instance.
I read all below - but what about that damn girl and boy who want the blloming chocolate cake? They are Sia and Sia - no 'che' there so what is going on???????
I put 'Mangio sia la verdura che il carne," and was marked wrong. Can anyone explain why the definite articles are incorrect here? This is an Italian rule I generally struggle to understand.
Actually, the reason for it being marked wrong, is that carne uses the female form of the article. Therefore, it should be la carne.
Yet in other sentences it hasn't used che or at least I've got it right by saying in anther sentence, Cucino sia la verdura sia la carne. No 'che' there?
- 152
It's not, though the "Io" at the beginning puts extra emphasis on the fact that "I (and only I!) eat both vegetables and meat."
- 152
The 2 are interchangeable.
"Mangio sia verdura che carne" is effectively the same as "Mangio sia verdura sia carne."
Italians decide which to use in the second part based on how it sounds in the sentence (like with "tra" and "fra").
I initially put sia and it was marked wrong as it should have been Che. When it came up second time I put Che and that has been marked wrong. Why.? Can anyone help
- 152
It isn't. The construction is "sia...sia..." or "sia...che..." Either is acceptable. Italians select "sia" or "che" based on which sounds better in the sentence (similar to "tra" and "fra").
- 931
why doesn't sia la verdura sia la carne work as in the boy and the girl example? Because we are using 'the' in the latter but not in the former?
Che? CHE? CHE?????! Are you trying to drive us crazy? Do you WANT to make us quit this course?????!
- 1286
Just a moment ago I was told that sia.... sia and sia..... che were interchangeable, yet here I am marked wrong for using sia...sia. Is there a rule I am missing?
- 152
If you wrote "Mangio sia verdura che carne" or "Mangio sia verdura sia carne," it should have been counted as correct.
Would be great to have that rule laid out before being asked about it. Only got the "sia ... sia" construction before, nothing about "sia ... che".
In the other samples with both, sia ... sia as 2 times is used in italian translation. But here, sia and che. Please explain
If you read some of the previous comments, apparently "verdura" is the collective form, like "greens" in English. In English, you don't have "a green"; in Italian, "greens" or "vegetables" is "verdura".
The tips refer only to sia...sia, not at all to sia..che as a construction. Yoy only learn this by making the mistake?
Why not sia carne like the earlier example cucino sia la carne sia la verdura?
- 152
That is correct as well. If duoLingo didn't accept it, please report it in the future. Thanks!
- 153
Why does in one sentens we use 'la' and 'il' before verdura and carne and in another not? (Sia verdura sia carne and sia la verdura sia il carne)
This is less definite? I have noticed even "zucchero" we don't have to use the "lo" all the time just to "put sugar in your coffee". When you like a thing, though, like apples, then you say, essentially, "I like the apples", since it's referring to the "universe" of apples. Here, the meat and veggies are are vaguer concepts, and you are open to both, so no articles needed.
Feel free to correct me, O Italian native, if I am on the wrong track!
- 152
Both are acceptable.
"sia...sia/che..." is the form; italians will choose the latter based on what sounds better.
In the other lesson of "I cook both the meat and the vegetables" the solution was "...sia la carne sia la verdura" why is that not used/accepted here?
for this one you don't need the definite articles. Look at the other posted solutions, actually, the one printed right above yours. ...sia carne sia verdura would have been accepted.
I put Mangio sia vedura che carne and it was incorrect. Do we have to have io?
no, it should be correct, unless you had another error since it's rather impossible cut-and-paste your actual answer into the chat. Hey, admin people, that should be a feature, especially when people are here questioning their answers!
My dictionary says .. Io mangio insieme la verdura e la carne. Is this ok.
- 337
No. Insieme means “together” not “both”. Additionally, it is typically used for people gathering together or doing something in conjunction.
I did not include "io" and was marked wrong! Yet google translates it with out "io" ???
