"I eat both vegetables and meat."
Translation:Io mangio sia verdura che carne.
304 CommentsThis discussion is locked.
I don't understand why "che" is used in this sentence when "e" would be appropriate. Can anyone help please?
Actually it wouldn't be appropriate because when constructing a sentence with sia there should be che after it. just remember it like that.
- sia....che..... = both....and
- sia....o..........= whether....or....
Also if you are referring to more than two things like: "Both me and Marco, George and Jeff" then construction would be like: "Sia io che Marco, George e Jeff"
It would be nice if the message after we get something wrong always had a reminder of the rule we missed.
I understand your point, but that would change everything and that's not how Duo works. You have the tips sections, plus discussion for Q&As and can go searching online yourself! :).
I think it's an amazing way to learn, words and rules do filter in by repetition and variation and the method of learning forces you to learn rules to progress! At the moment it's quickfire and fun, it would be a whole different ball game if (long) grammar explanations appeared after or between questions. (Not good).
Plus you get different people explaining the same thing slightly differently and I find the sum gives me a fuller understanding.
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It's great when the question is responded to, but there are times when no one responds to a person's query and this can prove to be frustrating. It's only fun when you understand something. It's great to be able to find the answer when you search this section and yes, often there are wonderful explanations and sites to go to, but when there is not it can prove to be frustrating. A rule like this one would work well in the tips section.
I completely agree. I struggle in math class eversince we got a young new teacher who can only explain it his way. It's so much better when you can hear different explanation so that you can get it and be able to build on a good foundation. I love these little comment forums.
Unfortunately the notes/tips section is often quite lacking and lots of questions go unanswered. It would be SO MUCH BETTER if the notes and tips had more substance and detail. Not everyone has unlimited time to go researching every grammar rule
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Not only that, but when grammar eggheads start talking about past particibles and that crap, I am lost.
Not everyone has the time to type lengthy answers. And I often find "answers" that are wrong. Community participation: you know how it goes. We must review the offered answers with discernment.
Correct! As a child learning your native language, your elders simply said , " no, it's not.... it's .... repeated often enouhg you learn the correct way without all the technical reasons.
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Yes we learn language as a child by learning the patterns. Grammar rules are only learnt at school when we are already pretty fluent.
And that is why some native English speakers, who should know better, say "between her and I".
MLarson2 have a lingot. So glad i am not the only one that feels lost when the comments get so grammatically deep... :))
I agree, but the tips section often tells you something and then the practice learns something else. So the middle way would be perfect No long rules but a short note from a DUO professor or native, as comments here can be posted by anyone and are not always correct.
It would be fine to learn without full-blown grammar rules except that Duo is not consistent and frequently incorrect according to native Italian speakers here and elsewhere. If we knew for certain that a new sentence structure was based on an actual grammar rule and not one of Duo's mistakes, it would be easier.
I totally agree with you. I feel this way, I am forced to look things up and really research things that I just don't understand. There's a lot of other resources out there and it's okay to step outside the box. I love the way Duo was designed and I wouldn't want to change a thing about it I feel I learned so much so quickly this way.
Actually, I'm finding that's exactly how Spanish works in Duo. I get something wrong, a little message pops up to explain WHY it was wrong.
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What a great idea! Even better it would be great if this rule were listed in a special section.
The French course for English speakers has something like this. The explanations are not always pertinent.
Instead Duo relies on open source customer service in the forums. It's like Google. When you have a problem, remember you got what you paid for.
This is actually a feature that they are trying out and I see more and more!
One of the previous questions uses sia twice (for the girl and the boy want chocolate cake example: sia la ragazza sia il ragazzo vogliono). It does not use che after sia... Is that because it doesn't say/translate the word 'both'?
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I used sia twice for this example and it was marked as correct. I am just now learning that I probably should have wrote sia... che
I used sia twice (using PC at present) and it marked me wrong, even though it was used as the suggestion and I have used this construction before. It's annoying that DL is not consistent - and even varies between PC and app.
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I used sia twice (on PC Aug 2021) and it was marked correct with che given as another option.
I suspect that DL is consistent- it is simply that the rules in Italian aren't always completely straightforward (though moreso than my native English!)
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Sia ..sia...is correct. The problem with Sia che is that CHE is used a lot in sentences and the Italians dislike repetition. Mangio sia la verdura sia la carne is accepted by DL.
But what about that other sentence in this lesson that goes "sia la ragazza sia il ragazzo vogliono la torta al cioccolato"? I'm so confused...
This explains perfectly, thanks. BUT 'both me and Marco, etc.' Is not good English grammar. Should be 'both Marco and I, non e verro?
That depends - it is correct if you and Marco are the objects of the sentence, for example "He cooked lunch for both me and Marco". If you are the subjects it should be "Both Marco and I cooked lunch".
True about using "me" when the first person is the object, however, it should read "He cooked lunch for both Marco and me".
In English, the easiest way to work it out is if it makes sense if the other person were to be removed from the sentence:
(Marco and) I went to the park
He gave (Marco and me) a lift to the park
not (Marco and) me went to the park
Right , because if you make it singular you would say he cooked lunch for me ( not i )
If you ask whether you should use me or i when talking about more people other than yourself, think about what you would use if singular. Ie: mike and i are going ( think: i am going not me am going)
It is easier to remember that that 'and I' replaces 'we' whilst 'and me' replaces 'us'
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I always goes 2nd, me always goes 1st. So I am going or Mark and I are going. He is taking me or he is taking me and mark.
"Sia...sia..." is also used to express 'both'. The two are interchangeable.
Whether it is "sia...sia..." or "sia...che..." is based on which one sounds better in the sentence.
Ok, so what would make one of these sound "better"? I just got burned on this myself, not knowing it was interchangeable with "sia...che"
In English, it is considered polite to put the other person (s) first and yourself last, so your example would be "Marco, George, Jeff and I" (assuming they are the subjects of the sentence). Is this the same in Italian?
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The absolute correct way ? Is Sia ....Sia. Meaning both....and. Sia....che has crept in and is widely used. Piutosto....che is now creeping in. I'm sticking with Sia...Sia. My only reference is native Italian.
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I believe that Sia does not always have to be followed by Che. I agree that Sia...Che.....means Either...Or.......and also Both..And.
However Sia can also be followed by another Sia. to give the same meaning. I I understand the construction to be like this.... Mangio sia la verdura sia la carne or of the form... Mangio Sia di carne sia di pesce.
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"sia . . . sia" was accepted for me. It gave the answer above as another correct solution.
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I understand what you've said and I appreciate the explanation, but could you also give me a counter example? When wouldn't I use che and instead use e or ed and why?
But in the earlier example it used sia twice: "cucino sia la carne sia la verdura". So why isn't it another sia instead of che?
Thankyou ; )) Please have a lingot for joining my.. Comments most helpful list
Shouldn't it be sia... sia...? That's how they tought it in the tips! And che doesn't mean "and" either! (But "that" if i recall correctly.)
You seem to have made the same comment thrice, I'm guessing that's a mistake?
Anyway, I believe both "Sia" and "Che" would be acceptable in the second position here, Remember that words often don't translate directly from language to language, So while "Che" means "That" in many cases, There are some times you'd say "Che" in Italian where you wouldn't say "That" in English, And vice versa.
Shouldn't it be sia... sia...? That's how they tought it in the tips! And che doesn't mean "and" either! (But "that" if i recall correctly.)
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What is the different between "sia... che" and "sia... sia".
Also when do we have to use either of them.
I don't see why other examples have it as io mangio sia la carne sia la verdura. So no che and the sia is repeated
In English, courteous phrasing would "Both Marco & I". In italian, would "anche Marco ed io" be correct?
I'm no expert so I asked my girlfriend and she told me "Sia Marco ... " would be more correct.
I don't agree with you because 1.) 'che' doesn't mean 'and'. 2.) I have used 'sia'+'sia' and it have always turned out correct.
In English, when one is referring to more than two things or people one would not use "both" but would simply list the names, putting oneself last i.e. Marco, George, Jeff and I/me (depending on context). It is new to me that in Italian this construction can be used for more than two people. Very useful!
They start the lesson, ny telling us that SIA means "is" then gone on to use it to mean something completely different. How confusing is that.
in the practice tbey used sia twice as in - sia verdura sia carne. poor examples when introducing new info
http://www.accademiadellacrusca.it/it/node/591
here it says "sia...sia" it's the originally correct form but all italians use "sia...che" or "sia...sia" the same way so no problem at all.
in lesson 1 there was a sentence: "mangio sia verdura sia carne".... ..why twice "sia" if below it is explained "sia.....che" ??? we had not learned yet with an example "sia...che"
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The construction in the notes found in the app shows only sia...sia, no mention of sia...che.
It would be nice to have an added tool such as grammar rules. There are many ways to learn granted. I find the more tools i have access to the more enjoyable the learning experience!
Well really nice of the duolingo team to indroduce che beforehand sarcasm
What is the difference between
- sia ... che ... and
- sia ... sia ...
I believe both mean "both ... and ...".
How to distinguish when to use which as a translation?!
My "mangio sia verdura sia carne" was OK so I think either will do.
Thank you ekmarvi and gordon_gregory for pointing out sia...sia versus sia....che. I asked the same question a while back. Seems both will do but sia....sia is easier for me.
It doesn't seem so, since I used che instead of the second sia and that was specifically marked as wrong.
In my opinion absolutely yes. "Io mangio entrambi verdure e carne" should be accepted as well
No man I'm sorry it would be not. Only as an answer to "Mangi verdura o carne?" you could say "Mangio entrambi"
So "entrambi" could be used only as let's say a separate part of the sentence, not in connection with e.g. nouns?
i guess it can be used the same way as "both" but only when alone e.g. "entrambi i giocatori" = "both players"
as written above "both...and" are translated into "sia...che"
In another sentence in this section: "Both the boy and the girl want the chocolate cake," this grammar is not accepted. The translation is "Sia la ragazza sia il ragazzo..." Why should they be different?
I translated "Cucino sua la verdura sia il carne" as "I cook both vegetables and meat" and it was correct.
I then was asked to translate "I eat both vegetables and meat" so I did this by swapping "cucino" in the sentence above with "mangio" and it was marked wrong. What am I missing?
Could you please put the grammatical rules beneath the answer? Just a quick explanation like 'che follows sia' would suffice.
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Would, "Mangio sia verdura sia carne" also be OK? For, "I cook both the meat and the vegetables" DL gave, "Cucina sia la carne sia la verdura" - maybe the "LA carne" and "LA verdura" make a difference?!
Why can't you do sia... sia here like we did for "sia la ragazza sia il ragazzo"?
I played with this a bit. I started with Mangio sia verdura sia carne and was marked wrong. I then changed it to Io mangio sia vendura sia carne and it was accepted with 'another correct solution'
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I wrote "mangio sia verdura sia carne" and it was marked correct with "Io mangio sia verdura che carne" given as another correct solution. Perhaps you misspelled something the first time?
Why does the word "io" have to be used? Doesn't the word "Mangio" have the "i" built into the verb. Why is it necessary to use "io" except for clarification?
i never know when to use a pronoun in the front of a sentence, sometimes i use one and it's wrong and sometimes when I don't use one it's wrong. Is there a rule for that.
People saying Duolingo should provide an explanation.... isn't that what is done here? Every time I need something explained, I hit the comment icon and read the explanation from native speakers.
Then why is cucino sia la carne sia la verdura correct, using Sai as both and, and Duolingo please be more consistent
I get sia….che, but isn't sia...sia also acceptable? I wrote "Io mangio sia verdure sia carne". It told me I was wrong. Am I?
I don't understand why it doesn't accept the use of the articles before the nouns. There doesn't seem to be any pattern to when duo lingo requires them, allows them or forbids them. We have seen in almost every course since the start that you generally use the article before a noun even if you wouldn't use it in English. The Family course even lists a specific exception where you don't. But here, seemingly randomly, we don't use the articles.
Why?
I forgot the "sia...che" construction and tried "tanto verdura come carne", Does anyone have anything to say about this construction?
It's not, though the "Io" at the beginning puts extra emphasis on the fact that "I (and only I!) eat both vegetables and meat."
What is the difference between "sia ... che" and "sia...sia"? How do you know when to use which? Sorry if it was already answered, but I didn't see it
There is no difference really. Either can be used. Italians use whichever sounds better in the sentence (same with "tra" and "fra").
Why does it count as correct both ways "sia la verdura sia la carne" and "sia verdura che carne"? What is the difference between using "che" instead of "sia" in the second case? Thank you all in advance!
If I understand correctly, "entrambi" can be used as a PRONOUN but not as a conjunction. Per esempio:
"Entrambi mi piace" = "I like both" (the word "entrambi" is a pronoun replacing a noun you already know).
When "both/and" is a CONJUNCTION, you need sia/sia or sia/che:
"Mi piace sia la frutta sia/che la verdura."
I made the mistake of using "entrambi" as a conjunction when i was last in Italy, and people looked at me strangely. ;-)
Because Italian uses the simple form for describing something usual, while English uses the plural form of it.
I read all below - but what about that damn girl and boy who want the blloming chocolate cake? They are Sia and Sia - no 'che' there so what is going on???????
I'd like to know i/o 'sia - che' why is not acceptable 'entrambi' (=both). Could a native Italiano/a answer please?
Both are acceptable.
"sia...sia/che..." is the form; italians will choose the latter based on what sounds better.
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this is a page on 'sia...sia' and 'sia ...che' . http://icebergproject.co/italian/2015/11/how-to-use-sia-sia-in-italian-or-how-to-say-both-pasta-and-pizza-sound-good/
Are sia...sia and sia...che interchangeable, or is there a rule where you use one over the other?
Haha, I've learned Italian since high school but never came across this construction before. Maybe I didn't pay much attention... But thanks for the explanation guys!
David Fine. Me is object of the preposition for. Me always follows for or to or with. Never the word I.
vegetables is plural, however verdure was not accepted. Someone please explain why?
Verdura means vegetables, in the plural. Think of it as saying greens. There is no green (singular) in English either.
Is it wrong to say "entrambi" verdure e carne? if so why? Would someone please help me?
The explanation below seems right, but in other instances I noticed that sia was used both times. Is there a rule about that. I still don't get the "che" in that instance.
I put 'Mangio sia la verdura che il carne," and was marked wrong. Can anyone explain why the definite articles are incorrect here? This is an Italian rule I generally struggle to understand.
Actually, the reason for it being marked wrong, is that carne uses the female form of the article. Therefore, it should be la carne.
I Believe "Verdura" Can Act As A Mass Noun In Italian, Just As "Fruit" Can In English. (E.G. "I Ate Some Fruit", You Don't Need To Specify More, You Ate An Undisclosed Amount Of An Undisclosed Type(s) Of Fruit)
If it said fruits, that would be "frutte."
But about "verdura," italians often use the singular form to express both a singular vegetable and plural vegetables. I have seen the plural "verdure" used to express multiple vegetables, but very rarely.
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Odd this. It is the same with città although on Duolingo the plural is given as le città yet the same does not work with verdura. Odd, but no odder than that wretched little word ne which seems to have so many uses, few of which I can assimilate.
La verdura seems to refer to the plural vegetables in the same way l'uva means the plural grapes. My guess is that it's just because it's more common
I believe "Verdura" in Italian can be used as both a count noun or a mass noun, Like "Fruit" in English, You could say "I eat a fruit" or "I eat fruits", Or just "I eat fruit".
Yet in other sentences it hasn't used che or at least I've got it right by saying in anther sentence, Cucino sia la verdura sia la carne. No 'che' there?
The 2 are interchangeable.
"Mangio sia verdura che carne" is effectively the same as "Mangio sia verdura sia carne."
Italians decide which to use in the second part based on how it sounds in the sentence (like with "tra" and "fra").
I initially put sia and it was marked wrong as it should have been Che. When it came up second time I put Che and that has been marked wrong. Why.? Can anyone help
It isn't. The construction is "sia...sia..." or "sia...che..." Either is acceptable. Italians select "sia" or "che" based on which sounds better in the sentence (similar to "tra" and "fra").
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why doesn't sia la verdura sia la carne work as in the boy and the girl example? Because we are using 'the' in the latter but not in the former?
Che? CHE? CHE?????! Are you trying to drive us crazy? Do you WANT to make us quit this course?????!
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Just a moment ago I was told that sia.... sia and sia..... che were interchangeable, yet here I am marked wrong for using sia...sia. Is there a rule I am missing?
If you wrote "Mangio sia verdura che carne" or "Mangio sia verdura sia carne," it should have been counted as correct.
Would be great to have that rule laid out before being asked about it. Only got the "sia ... sia" construction before, nothing about "sia ... che".
In the other samples with both, sia ... sia as 2 times is used in italian translation. But here, sia and che. Please explain
If you read some of the previous comments, apparently "verdura" is the collective form, like "greens" in English. In English, you don't have "a green"; in Italian, "greens" or "vegetables" is "verdura".
The tips refer only to sia...sia, not at all to sia..che as a construction. Yoy only learn this by making the mistake?
Why not sia carne like the earlier example cucino sia la carne sia la verdura?
That is correct as well. If duoLingo didn't accept it, please report it in the future. Thanks!
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Why does in one sentens we use 'la' and 'il' before verdura and carne and in another not? (Sia verdura sia carne and sia la verdura sia il carne)
This is less definite? I have noticed even "zucchero" we don't have to use the "lo" all the time just to "put sugar in your coffee". When you like a thing, though, like apples, then you say, essentially, "I like the apples", since it's referring to the "universe" of apples. Here, the meat and veggies are are vaguer concepts, and you are open to both, so no articles needed.
Feel free to correct me, O Italian native, if I am on the wrong track!
In the other lesson of "I cook both the meat and the vegetables" the solution was "...sia la carne sia la verdura" why is that not used/accepted here?
for this one you don't need the definite articles. Look at the other posted solutions, actually, the one printed right above yours. ...sia carne sia verdura would have been accepted.
I put Mangio sia vedura che carne and it was incorrect. Do we have to have io?
no, it should be correct, unless you had another error since it's rather impossible cut-and-paste your actual answer into the chat. Hey, admin people, that should be a feature, especially when people are here questioning their answers!
My dictionary says .. Io mangio insieme la verdura e la carne. Is this ok.
No. Insieme means “together” not “both”. Additionally, it is typically used for people gathering together or doing something in conjunction.
I did not include "io" and was marked wrong! Yet google translates it with out "io" ???
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also marked correct with "sia la verdura sia la carne". I don't understand the "che" construction.
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I think "verdura" is the general term for vegetables (singular & plural). Think of it as green stuff.
I believe "Verdura" can refer to vegetables in general, Or to one specific one, Just like "Fruit" in English, You likely wouldn't say "I eat fruits", So in the same way it'd be odd to say "Mangio verdure" in Italian.
This should be sia sia not , sia che . Four questions earlier similar question was sia sia ! Why is DL tying us in knots like this ?
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I use a grammar text book alongside Duolingo as there are many questions left unanswered.
Why is "sia la verdura sia il carne" wrong? There was a different sentence that used that structure
I don't quite understand the difference between sia ... che... And sia... sia... ?
Why is it "sia il ragazzo sia la ragazza vogliono la torta al cioccolato" but sia...che" here?
When is the second sia changed to che in this both......and....construction?
Why wouldn't it be correct writing 'Mangio sia verdura sia carne' as that's the only 'both...and' that has been shown thus far
Just realised this discusdion group was here and oh boy, this is so helpful.
It would be useful if the tips dealt with the issues about to come up. It's not fun to have to get something wrong to understand it.
why isn't it I eat vegetables and meat?? mangio sia verdura e' carne????
I got it right but now I am confused. I was expecting sia... sia just like nè .. nè. Why do you use sia and che instead sia... sia?
Does anyone know why it can't also be; io mangio sia verdura sia carne?
Two sentences ago we used sia la ... sia la ... . Why sia la ... che now?
For me it accepted "mangio sia carne che verdura;" in the "both/and" instances, can the order always be switched?
I later noticed that when it’s both sia la, there’s always “the”. Quite logical, because la means the.
Is there a rule for deciding between sia....che rather than sia...sia. I have seen both but can't pick the difference. Thanks in advance.
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May I ask the difference between "sia ... che ..." and "sia ... sia ..." ? Sia+o means "one of the options", the others seem to me to be the same and meaning " both options". Is this correct?
Doesn't "che" mean "that"? So what this sentence means to me is "I eat both vegetables that meat."
I thought it should be sia..... sia for both .... and ..... that was an example?
Why can't we say "Mangio sia la verdura sia la carne."? In another example of this lesson, "Both the girl and the boy" was translated as "sia la ragazza sia il ragazzo".
