"La cerveza es para los campesinos."
Translation:The beer is for the peasants.
Ah, you have good vision. Excellent! Keep eating those carrots!
Actually, what the deal is, my name stands out, while off beat names mixed in with other off beat names can be far more present than mine, while they are not much apparent. Not like mine, anyway. Instead, they all blur together in one's mind. A mush of concealed and congealed identities
Also note that my level is 25. That means I have been around awhile during which time I have posted now and then. However, the percentant of the comment threads I have posted in is smal. I just stand out when I do post, like I said. Also, I generally post stuff you should regard. So it is good that you noticed my posts.
How are the suggested translations ranked on here? I'm used to going to WordReference to look up new words, so I get a better idea of the nuance, and it has peasant (the top translation on Duolingo) as a pejorative, and farmer as neutral.
If the hover translations don't come with any information about tone or context, it seems like they should at least list the most common or neutral translation at the top. Is there any system to this?
if you translated 'campesinos' to 'farmers', you might deny your English readers the likely pejorative intent of the speaker/writer or characters portrayed. Other alternatives such as 'granjero', 'agricultor', 'cultivator', etc. might be better for any given farmer lacking other characteristics...
I'm not sure about the Spanish context of campesino. In English, "peasant" generally means a lower class, subservient person who works on a farm, with the added implication that the person is illiterate with very little education. "Peasant" is also sometimes used metaphorically as a negative term. "Farmer" is more general, referring to anyone who owns or works on a farm -- ranging from someone very poor to someone fairly well off (if the farmer owns an industrial sized farm, for instance.)
What if they were a peasant and you lived in the days when most everyone was a peasant? In my view it is only in your mind that peasant is an "N" word. And if you were a novelist writing about such times you would need to use the word liberally or have low quality novel. False.
Actually just about any name can be used in a derogatory maner. White collar worker. Blue collar worker. King. Politician. Cop. Pollyandra. You name it. They are all words you should not use.
The funny thing is I later had to answer "Los campesinos". Well, I may not agree but I knew the correct answer so I typed in "The peasants". WRONG, it's "The farmers" and I just lost my last heart. Really? They are farmers until we give them beer then they become peasants.
Not consistent. So beware if you haven't hit the "los campesinos" question yet.
(I used farm workers here, so maybe farmers would have worked.... but the translation says peasants)
Granjero has always been the land owner-farmer, and Campesino has been the farm worker or field hand, contemporaneously. Peasant or serf would be some one who farmed without owning the land or just work, as peasant came from piss ant, although has become generally pejorative in the post-feudal and Victorian Era. I will report 'farm worker, field hand and field worker' as valid translations since that is what I was called when I worked the fields.
Etymology: From Late Middle English paissaunt, from Anglo-Norman paisant, from Middle French païsant (“païsant”), from Old French païsan (“countryman, peasant”), from païs (“country”), from Late Latin pāgēnsis (“inhabitant of a district”), from Latin pāgus (“district”) + Old French -enc (“member of”), from Frankish -inc, -ing "-ing".
"Pissant" The etymology of the words "pissant" and "peasant" are not related. Webster's Dictionary says the pissant or "pismire" is "so named because it discharges a an irritant fluid populary regarded as urine". ME pisse, urine + mire, ant. Please also see Sandy Bridge's comment on the etymology of "peasant".
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
"Formica rufa, a typical pissant A pissant, also seen as piss ant or piss-ant, refers to a specific type of ant. The word is also used as a pejorative noun or adjective, indicating insignificance.
It has its origin in the word pismire, a 14th-century term for ant.
The original pissant is any of a certain group of large ant species, commonly called wood ants, that make mounded nests in forests throughout most of Europe. The name pissant arises from the urine-like odour produced by their nesting material—needles and straw from pine trees—and the formic acid that constitutes their venom.
Pissant is an epithet for an inconsequential, irrelevant, or worthless person, especially one who is irritating or contemptible out of proportion to his or her perceived significance.
Pissant can also be used positively. Ron Ault of the AFL-CIO said, in describing the relationship of his union to the Pentagon, "Our job is to be the irritant piss ant stinging them on their ankles at every opportunity.""
"Peasants" is definitely pejorative in English and I don't believe, absent other context, that "campesinos" carries the same tonal weight. I consciously shifted my answer to the more respectful "workers" (thinking farm workers, field workers, etc. too specific) but duolingo didn't like that...
the absolute only times I would say "peasant" is if a.) I am discussing medieval social structures, b.) I am referring to Monty Python (help, help! I'm being repressed!) or c.) I wanted to be deliberately rude to someone about their boorish attitude or manners. (which I would never actually do) So I'm confused about whether or not I should ever use this word when speaking in spanish. I don't know whether the insulting nature of it carries over or not, and if it does, why are we being taught this word?
I think this word and compañero are challenging nouns to translate into English. There is not one exact word that fits all the definitions that each word carries. In different contexts, I think campesino could be farmer (i.e. an owner) or farm worker, an employee. But it implies earning one's living from the land, er, field (el campo).
It says translations of "campesinos" include peasants and farmers. Surely, if Duolingo is teaching modern Spanish, rather than historical usage, the word "peasants" should be avoided like the plague. This word is never, and I mean NEVER, used in English about people living NOW. It doesn't get more pejorative than this. "Farmers" or farm workers" or "country folk" would surely be the only acceptable translations for this.
The sentence doesn't have any context though, you don't know who's speaking or when it's taking place, or the circumstances of the workers. Peasant is still a valid translation, and in some cases it would be a much more accurate translation than 'farm worker' or 'farmer' or 'rural person' if you want to convey something about their social status.
I agree that maybe it shouldn't be the main translation used in the example, but picking a single representative meaning's a tricky call. But it should definitely be accepted as a valid answer, because it is one! And just because it can be used perjoratively in English, doesn't mean campesino/a has the same baggage in Spanish. Honestly this is the best kind of time to investigate the use of a word in Spanish and get a feel for how it's used and everything it means
I disagree with your statement: "And just because it can be used perjoratively in English, doesn't mean campesino/a has the same baggage in Spanish." If campesino does NOT have the same pejorative meaning as the English "peasant," then it is NOT, ipso facto, a correct translation of the word "peasant," except in historical contexts, because "peasant" always has such pejorative baggage. This course is not for advanced students, nor does it take us into advanced territory, such as history. I would wager that campesino has exactly the same pejorative baggage as "peasant" because the "thing" behind it has become unacceptable in ALL modern societies. IF modern Spanish or Latin American rural workers do not mind being called campesinos, this can only be because the word has shed its historical nuances, in which case its ACTUAL translation would not be "peasant" but something else more in tune with modern society. The Duolingo page gives "peasant" and "farmer" as both being acceptable translations, but the meanings of these two English words are completely different, indicating that something is wrong.
Peasant can be used as a pejorative, but that's because 'poor' and 'rural' are used as insults. That's not the only context they're used in, they're just descriptive terms. Here's the OED entry for peasant
1A poor smallholder or agricultural labourer of low social status (chiefly in historical use or with reference to subsistence farming in poorer countries)
[AS MODIFIER] peasant farmers
1.1 informal An ignorant, rude, or unsophisticated person. "That is a civilized drink, you peasant"
So not purely historical, something you might see in the news for example, where 'farmer' doesn't convey the full story. Also notice the pejorative is classed as a secondary, informal use - which is important to know, but it's not the only meaning
What you're basically arguing is that nobody should ever use this word in a modern context, which is pretty extreme. Knowing what situations you can (or even should) use it in, and when it would be taken as an insult are the important things. The latter's not a simple thing either, there are so many social layers you need to consider and even be aware of. At least if the Duo translation is peasant you're probably going to be careful about calling someone a campesino without making sure it's a neutral term first
You misunderstand my argument. When I said "pejorative" I was not referring to your example No.2. Many words in all languages have slang/metaphorical subsidiary usages. That's not at issue here. Example No.1 "poor smallholder or agricultural labourer of low social status (chiefly in historical use or with reference to subsistence farming in poorer countries)" is the pejorative to which I was referring. The word "peasant" currently could be used to describe low-income farm workers in underdeveloped countries, but only in the context of a sociological description en masse. One would not say, as in this Duolingo example - "the beer is for the peasants" as an English speaker would no more characterise poor rural people as "peasants" than he/she would use the n-word about Africans - the effect would be comparable. The expression "the beer is for the peasants" positively reeks of condescension and snobbery, which is why there have been so many objections to it on this page (see above), and no amount of Jesuistic logic-chopping is going to wipe that stink away.
From what I can see it does actually refer to people who work in the fields - farmers and farmworkers, and people who do similar kinds of work, not just anyone who happens to live there. I guess the agricultural working class might be a broad definition? As opposed to, say, people who move to the country and commute or run their own business from home (or are too wealthy to work at all!)
Peasant has always been an insulting and degrading word, it's main point of focus from Medieval times was to segregate them from the different classes. Peasants being those working on farms (who don't own it), earning minimum wages and constantly being in poverty, used as pawns for the lords and ladies of the country.
Current versions of the word are used similarly, however more to the point of calling somebody filthy, poor, ill educated, disgusting and useless. It is in no way the same as calling somebody a farm hand, they are somebody who pulls their weight on a farm to help out the land owner. If you were to call somebody a peasant to a farm hand, you wouldn't like the consequence, similarly if you were to walk up to a stranger and call them a peasant. It is a degrading word in English, and shouldn't be used loosely.
What we learn in Duolingo does not just apply to modern times, but also to literature. Our study will enable us to ultimately be able to read such. Thus, DL presents us with words such as king and queen. And the word, "peasant" mainly applies to that usage. And when one sees the word, "peasant" in literature, it won't be being applied in a derogatory manner, but will only be being used to refer to a class of society of the time the literature is about, and it it won't likely have anything to do with class stuggle. As I say, most people years ago were peasants. It was the norm.