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  5. "Bean agus fear."

"Bean agus fear."

Translation:A woman and a man.

August 25, 2014

55 Comments


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/SherrinfordH

I noticed that if one crosses out the 'e' in the 'ea' group of these words I remember the pronunciation more easily. So it becomes "Ban agus far" - which is much more like it's pronounced. Don't know if anyone else uses these tricks to remember pronunciation, but I thought I'd share it.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/ataltane

That's a handy trick. The 'e' is actually there for a reason, though. It gives you a clue to the pronunciation of the 'b' or 'f' before it. It's quite subtle, but the b in 'bean' (woman) is different from the b in 'bán' (white). It has a 'y'-like quality.

This is much more obvious with other consonants. For example, the first syllables of 'teampall' (temple) and 'tamall' (while)' have the same vowel (a) but the Ts are different. In 'tam' it's normal (let's call it), while in 'team' it's more like 'tya-' or 'cha-'.

If that's confusing, just trust your ears. They'll figure it out eventually :).


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Mortenll

Why are the vocal sounds in "bean" and "fear" pronounced differently? Is it just one of those things?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/talideon

It's partly a dialect thing. In other dialects, there's no difference, but the Connemara dialect (which, in spite of the course being An Caighdeán - the official standard dialect) appears to be the speaker's native dialect.

That's OK. The Connemara dialect is widely understood.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/mokusei

Here is the link to a text-to-speech site somebody posted in another thread: http://www.abair.tcd.ie/?lang=eng. It's quite helpful as it includes two different dialects (Ulster Irish and Connaught Irish), along with a map.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/PrincessLolly

Why are bean/fear spelled with an "h" in some cases (bhean/fhear), and not in others?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/galaxyrocker

Irish has initial word mutations, so it just depends on the context they are used. Feminine nouns lenite (add an h) after the definite articles; masculine ones don't. So, an bhean. But, an fear.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Rae.F

And yet it accepts "an bean" as perfectly correct without so much as a "You have a typo in your answer". Should this be reported as an error?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/galaxyrocker

I would, but I think they decided to be lenient on lenition/eclipsing in the course. There was a discussion about it a while back.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/tu.8zPhLD72zzoZN

When do masculine words mutate?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/galaxyrocker

Nominative singular if it starts with a vowel (t-prefixing). They also mutate in genitive singular


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Kilyle

Lenition is one of the most arresting aspects of the Irish language, and one of the reasons I keep going back to it despite having more trouble with it than with any language I have ever studied (I've studied over two dozen, though none to fluency (not my aim at present)).

I actually love it so much that I made it a vital case marker for one of the conlangs I'm designing. In my language, words divide into categories based on whether they're primarily active, like people and predators, or primarily acted upon, like prey animals, babies, and inanimate objects. The words get lenited when they're outside the two or three classes they're most likely to be found in (there are some other changes that take place too, such as sneaking an R into some cases, as ten - tren or - thren).

But yeah, Irish lenition occurs for a ton of reasons, and the only one I tend to remember is the vocative ("Hi, Bob!"). Here's Wikipedia's list: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irish_initial_mutations#Environments_of_lenition


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/ahogan86

What's lenition?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/talideon

Lenition is a kind of sound change. It's basically the change of a stop sound (such a 'p', 't', 'k', &c.) into a fricative (such as 'f', 's', 'ch' as in 'loch', &c.) pronounced in more or less the same position.

An example of lenition in English would be the words 'act' and 'action'. 'Action' is basically the word 'act' + the suffix '-(t)ion'. However, you'll notice that whereas the 't' in 'act' is pronounced as a stop, in 'action' it ends up pronounced as an 'sh' this is because when when '-ion' is added to the end of a word, it causes the 't' to lenite to 'sh', even if it's already part of the word.

In Irish, this happens all the time because it's grammaticalised.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/rwohl1

As I read through many of these comments, I feel that I am out of the loop on lots of the lango used. Language interests me a great deal, and it would be lovely to increase my knowledge so as to help me more easily learn languages. Can anybody suggest some sort of reading material to look into...linguistics, phonology, etc.? Thank you!


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Rae.F

Linguistics is a rather broad field. I have a BA in the subject and I've only scratched the surface. But Wikipedia is a really good resource for getting started in understanding the basics.

Lenition

Category:Phonology

Category:Linguistics


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/bin_weg

It sounds soooooooo beautiful, I could listen to it for hours. :-*


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/ahogan86

So when you want to practice speaking Irish to someone, which dialect do you use? Do you have to learn all dialects or is there a "general Irish" language you can learn?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/talideon

There's an artificial standard dialect, An Caighdeán Oifigiúl, which is what this course is teaching. However, It's not actually spoken in practice. No dialect is considered superior to the others, though Munster Irish speakers have a tendency think that theirs is the best.

While I'm far from fluent, the dialect I picked up from my grandmother is an intermediate between the Connacht and Ulster dialects (basically Ulster Irish with Connacht vowels) because I'm from Sligo, and that's more or less how the last Irish speakers in my locality spoke and how my grandmother taught me. As far as which one you should learn goes, you should stick with CO for now so as you get the fundamentals of the language, and when you're comfortable, try to pick up whichever of the three major dialects takes your fancy.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/ataltane

I might add that dialect differences are not seen as a big, big deal by Irish speakers. They can be confusing to the learner, but essentially everyone comes to speak their preferred form and to understand everyone else. It's like English dialects that way.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/talideon

They used to be a much bigger deal before the advent of radio and television. There's been a certain amount of natural dialect levelling over the past century, and it's helped that nowadays people get more exposure to other dialects.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/MaxwellPos4

Has anyone ever proposed a standard dialect for Irish and Scotish


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/GordiePops

Well the Celtic languages have survived and evolved unlike Latin which no country speaks any more (Roman Empire or not)


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/talideon

No, Latin did survive and evolve, giving use the various Romance languages.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/talideon

The used to be in the form of Classical Irish, but there are no efforts that I'm aware of to bring the various Gaelics together since they diverged after the Middle Irish period.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Spygirl1342

This question is so touchy I barely got it correct


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/GrandApple

During the creation of the Earth..


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Gill84

Biddy and Miley, the Irish Adam and Eve ;-)


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/brainynut

Here the pronunciation of "bean" doesn't sound (to me) like in other previous sentences... I couldn't come up with that word when listening to it :/


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/robagio

Is there a word for "a/an"?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/mokusei

No, Irish doesn't have an indefinite article.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/ataltane

No. You should supply it in your translations where English requires it.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/hyunjinoodles

This helping me with irish and french

I AM SO HAPPY!!!! :):):):):):):):)


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Umamor

I've used a rosetta stone trial and they spelled "bean" as "bhean" and pronounced it with a "v" sound? Is that correct or more of a regional pronunciation? I just want to make sure I'm learning it right.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Rae.F

That's lenition, which is a grammatical feature. https://www.duolingo.com/skill/ga/Lenition


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/milgurl15

Interesting how 'ban' is bean and 'far' is fear


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/amberm5480

this is hard for me :() but I love it


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/hyunjinoodles

can i get a friend?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Spygirl1342

Sure you have me


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/marina382503

Are you really that lonely? You have me too.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/ChloeDae1

i dont like they count it wrong for using lower case


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Rae.F

That's strange. I've never had that issue. Did you report it?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/TylerAube

You can't hear it very well


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/JohnAPhela

I am giving correct translation agreeing with print out yet I get an incorrect sign


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/SatharnPHL

The only people reading your comments here are ordinary users just like you. We have no idea what you're typing in, and we have no idea what you're seeing in response, and we can't do anything about it anyway.

If you think that Duolingo is not working properly, take a screenshot and submit a bug report.

If you post your screenshot here, other users might also be able to figure out what happened.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Skiamakhos

Is there a bug with Duolingo at the moment? I entered "A woman and a man" and it said I was wrong, it was "A woman and a man". What's going on?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/GordiePops

Is there no definite article ?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Rae.F

Irish has a definite article. It does not have an indefinite article.

a woman and a man
bean agus fear

the woman and the man
an bhean agus an fear


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/SatharnPHL

Irish has singular and plural definite articles - like many other languages, the singular and definite articles are not the same.

It's also worth pointing out that English has a singular indefinite article but it doesn't have any plural indefinite article.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/OncleBob

Is it just me, or does that 'bean' sound like /bæm/ with an m ? A dialect thing, maybe ? Or one of those rare instances where an Irish word isn't written exactly as it sounds ? ;-)


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/SatharnPHL

It's just you, but you can probably get away with blaming it on your computer speakers.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/OncleBob

They were made in Ireland… (so it must be me)


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/marina382503

This comment system on Duolingo is basically social media for nerds.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/marina382503

Ye, all they talk about is the order words go in different languages. That's a really smart comment. By the way, I think you kinda sexy.

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