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  5. "Léann sibh an nuachtán."

"Léann sibh an nuachtán."

Translation:You read the newspaper.

August 25, 2014

39 Comments


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Gill84

How come 'you all read the newspaper is not accepted', even though sibh is the plural form of you?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/talideon

Report it. 'You all' isn't commonly used in Irish English, so it's easy to miss. Instead we tend to use 'ye', 'youse', 'yiz', and others, depending on where you are.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/AustinARR

I used "ye" here-- "you" is the accepted answer.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/conorodroma

I did the same. The funny thing is it accepted 'ye' before this.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Rewm
  • 821

But in which English is "you all" commonly used? I've only ever seen it in language learning materials.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Wengusflengus

it depends on the dialect, Irish (and Scottish, maybe) English use "ye", people from the US say "y'all", some people say "you lot",... I don't know if anyone says "you all", but a lot of people deffo say "y'all".


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/mwasson

People in the US say "you all", too. Obviously "y'all" is derived from it, but it's marked as a mostly Southern form. Outside the South it's seen as informal, while "you all" could be used in formal contexts. Other regions have different informal plural versions of you. I was raised in eastern Pennsylvania and was used to "you guys" (which, from a feminist perspective, has some issues). I now live in Pittsburgh where "yinz"/"youns" is the common form (and is the origin of the informal name for someone with the Pittsburgh dialect, a "Yinzer"). Occasionally I also use "yous", which occurs in some areas of the Northern US but I'm not sure of the exact distribution.

It's thought that many of these forms are due to Scots-Irish or Irish settlement--different places were settled at different times by different subgroups, so they developed plural yous independently. And those Scots-Irish developed their original plural you after contact with Gaeilge, so "sibh" is amazingly still relevant to this entire discussion. :-)

"ye" in Hiberno-English might be taken a little differently, since that was the archaic form in English. Perhaps it was retained contact between Irish and English speakers happened earliest in Ireland among the Irish, so when a calque of "sibh" was needed "ye" was still already there?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Cameron60972

Woah, youse and a form of yinz made it to ireland!?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Sliotar.

Seriously? "made it to Ireland"? What makes you think that it didn't start in Ireland and make it to your part of the world?

("yiz" is not a form of "yinz").


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Shelly776126

I've even heard youses when I lived in Dublin.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/lilyhaha1

Cause it isn't give over.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/jscamp29

I'm concerned that I have not even seen "sibh" in my lessons and it throws it at me in an audio clip... luckily I knew it from Scottish Gaelic I've learned... Is anybody else getting words they have not been shown?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Ahmagahz

I now have an answer to my own question: Youse is not accepted.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Ditty_Kitty

Why is "you" used as a plural? I'm not great at grammar so there is probably just a rule for it, but just curious...


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/talideon

English doesn't distinguish between singular 'you' and plural 'you', but Irish does. In this sentence, it's speaking about multiple people reading the newspaper, thus it uses 'sibh' ('you' plural) rather than 'tú' ('you' singular).

That's really all there is to it.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/ShaneStova

Thank you that really helps I wish all replies made it that easy to understand


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Wengusflengus

There are actually very little to no language other than English that doesn't distinguish you singular and you plural


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/ex0mo

German has it for the "formal/polite you" which is "Sie" for both singular and plural. There's also the "informal/personal you" which has different singular "Du" and plural "Ihr" forms.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/talideon

Happy to help!


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Alex480152

Maybe it is if you are talking to a group at the same time. Pretend i am talking to three people and i say " i need you to eat" then i am talking to more than one person. Hope this was helpful


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/yeti221527

in the solution is written ye instead of you


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Tim522751

Would 'yous' be acceptable?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/mwasson

It's acceptable semantically, but I doubt Duolingo accepts it as that's nonstandard English; if it accepts "ye" that's because that's a more Hiberno-English way of saying you-plural, which is uniquely relevant to this course.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/JasmineG.P

It should have been 'they read the newspaper' because 'sibh' is they.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/mwasson

"Sibh" is the plural form of you. "Siad" is they. I get them confused all the time.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Seraphina578619

What is the difference between tú and sibh? Is it lenition?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/mwasson

Tú is singular, for referring to one other person. Sibh is plural, for groups of people. Think of sibh like y'all/yous/yinz/you guys (depending on your specific variant of English). Since you've also studied German and Spanish, you could compare them to du/ihr in German or tú/vosotros in Spanish (note, however, that there's no special form to express familiarity, e.g. no tú/Usted distinction)


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/UlchabhanRua

Ye read the newspaper? Ye isn't used in any current forms of North American English.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/SandS2003

Luckily there is more in this world than North-America. Like Europe. ('ye' is used in dialects of England, mainly in Ireland and Scotland).


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/UlchabhanRua

Using dialectical non-standard English in a global language teaching program doesn't make sense. RP doesn't use it. Oxford says it's archaic. Luckily there is more in this world than Europe. There are over 20 other countries in the world where English is a primary language. Trolling my comment saying how a few regions use this as a dialect as justification is poor form.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/mwasson

Teaching a bit of Hiberno-English along with Irish makes sense--if you're speaking to an Irish speaker, there's a very good chance (not quite 100%, but close) that they're a native Hiberno-English speaker. Furthermore, as they share some peculiarities (e.g. "does be" and "bíonn"), I've found it useful to have that further context. Spoken as a North American.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Evelyn468953

I gave "You are reading the newspaper," and it was marked wrong and gave the correct version as "You all read the newspaper" (I'm reporting it). In my North American West Coast English, "you (singular)" and "you (plural)" are identical. This can lead to confusion (e.g., "Would you like to join me? - Oh, er, sorry, not everyone: I meant only just Fred there.") "You all" is not used unless emphasizing that one means every person addressed (e.g., teacher speaking to an unruly class: "You all need to stop talking and get in your seats right now!") Most people I know no longer look down on "you all/y'all" as ignorant or "low class" (although they did when I was growing up in the 1960's and '70's). But no one around here uses it.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/mwasson

I don't think the issue is you-singular vs you-plural, but rather that you changed the tense from simple present to present progressive. The equivalent Irish phrase to what you wrote would be "Tá tú/sibh ag léamh an nuachtáin." (Note the "i" in "nuachtáin": this form requires the object to be in the genitive.) The Duolingo Irish course tends to care about this distinction.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/EliseSnowman

Duolingo doesn't usually seem to note the many dialects of English which can be confusing. Is it possible for any of the English variations of plural you to be accepted in the answer such as ye, y'all, you all, yous guys, yinz, etc? There's just been a couple of questions in Irish and German lessons where a English translation in different dialects exists that's closer to the true translation, but those answers aren't accepted.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/SatharnPHL
Mod
  • 1560

"Ye read the newspaper" is not "closer to the true translation". "You read the newspaper" is a 100% accurate translation, because standard English doesn't differentiate between singular and plural "you". I don't see anyone writing to any of the worlds major English language newspapers complaining that their stories would be so much clearer if they used dialect versions of "plural you".

Dialect versions of plural "you" have been added as acceptable answers for many of these exercises, but the problem is just which dialects do you accept? It is precisely because they are not standardized in any way that you always end up with someone complaining that they're dialect was left out. How do you deal with people who believe that "y'all" has become a "polite singular you" in some places?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/EliseSnowman

I am new to the Irish lessons and when I posted this hadn't gotten to the questions that accept some variations of plural you from the various English dialects (for me this was a multi choice question not a fill in the blank). Glad to know that such consideration has already been given! :D

I see your point about the newspapers but that's not the context here. In this context where you are trying to learn a foreign language, making such a clarification of singular vs plural you is relevant and helpful for noobies like me. Especially for people who aren't used to the singular/plural use of the same pronoun you in English.

Well perhaps see the complaints about different dialects as suggestions instead. Duolingo has no obligation to accept the suggestion but they allow us to post these sorts of ideas all the same.

As far as "more correct" I was actually thinking of a few other questions where that argument has more ground than this . I shouldn't have combined it with my points on this question, my bad. An example of these questions is there was some German questions with the phrase "das hier" but duolingo wouldn't accept the English translation "this here". The explanation claimed "this here" isn't standard English. In that case I would argue even Standard English would allow that phrasing. I still don't see the reason not to accept it since it's a more faithful translation of the German. But maybe I just don't realize where the line between my dialect and standard English is. Sorry.

Where is y'all used as a polite singular pronoun? That's interesting. I actually speak one of the dialects that uses y'all and I don't think I've heard it used that way.

If I'm making trouble for you please feel free to ignore me. I'm just a bit nerdy about dialects so the idea of duolingo giving some more attention to dialects in lessons sounds great to me and I would love to suggest it, but I understand if that would be too hard to ever implement. Or if doing so would overcomplicate lessons and confuse others.

Thanks for replying and hope you have a good day! :D


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/SatharnPHL
Mod
  • 1560

The issue of "y'all" as a polite singular pronoun was brought up here and here.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/EliseSnowman

Good afternoon! Sorry to bother you again, I just couldn't forget about it. I brought up this mysterious "singular y'all" to many of my friends from throughout both urban and rural parts of the gulf south. Not a single one of us have ever heard it used singular, nor do we see any sense in why it would be more polite. Most of them replied as affirmatively as I did, that a y'all used as a singular you is just plain wrong. Then I brought the matter to my Yankee friends. One of them did describe a situation where she heard what might have a been a "singluar y'all". She was the only other one in the store and the cashier asked her, "Y'all find everything okay" Now I have a theory as to what this miscommunication is. I still insist that y'all is never used as a singular you. Using y'all also isn't intrensically more polite. What makes it polite is in the South you assume the person isn't alone. So the y'all used by the cashier to the lone Yankee would translate not to just "you" but "you and whoever you may be with". The physical presence of the theoretical people you may or may not be with is not required to include them. It could be your family, classmates, coworkwes, other customers, etc. It's just polite to ask about not just the person in front of you, but anyone else potentially relevant. Again y'all is never singluar, but I can see how it may sound that way if you're not familiar with the customs. I now can think of many times where talking to one person I asked "How are y'all?" But amongst Southerners it's understood we're asking about "you AND your family". It's very normal to say "y'all" to mean "you and family" especially. It's probably the most commone usage. To water this down to "y'all can be used singular" hinders the full understanding and communication between cultures. You're missing half of what is being said with that approach. All this time maybe no one knew what we were fully saying. In short, sorry to all Northerners and company for not clarifying for y'all! Haha

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