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  5. "Íocann sibh don fhear."

"Íocann sibh don fhear."

Translation:You pay for the man.

August 26, 2014

75 Comments


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/flint72

Does this mean "you pay on behalf of the man", or "you purchase the man"?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/AnLonDubhBeag

You pay on behalf of. To pay for something you use "as". You can also use the verb "díol" instead of "íoc":

Díolaim as an mbricfeasta = I pay for the breakfast.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Hopswatch

Thanks for clearing that up. Can't be having with teaching programs that contain those sorts of things.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/lemonpiefirefly

Could it be done with "don", though? I just had the previous exercise have me translate "íocann tu' don mhairteoil" and allowed "you pay for the beef". (sorry about the way I had to type the u accent).


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/AnLonDubhBeag

Íocann tú don mhairteoil would mean "you pay on behalf of the beef", as in the meat bought something and you paid for it. It's not really a sensible sentence, I'm sure the Duolingo staff will correct it soon.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/ruamac

I think that they put these weird sentences in to make us think outside the box. Otherwise it's easy to just guess at an answer. I know that, when my daughter and I were learning sign language,we would tell each other weird things such as, 'I have a pink dog and a blue giraffe.' Otherwise it would have been too easy to guess that she was saying, 'I have a black dog,' simply because I knew that to be true.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Conor697532

This allowed you to expand your vocabulary, as well, adding different adjectives into the mix!


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/CaelQuinn

Alt GR and the letter should give you the accented version, on Windows at least :)


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/jonathanbost

I have windows and it doesn't work


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/CormacMOB

It depends on your keyboard settings. You need to have a use a keyboard layout that has accented vowels. Try changing you keyboard to English (Ireland), en-ie or something like that.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/eileenoconnortoo

Did not know anyone said ye anymore


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Wengusflengus

in irish English we do


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Huffdogg

I think it's a bit archaic everywhere at this point but it's extremely useful to help define the difference between the singular and plural "you" for translation.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Wengusflengus

I nearly always use it in informal speech and writing :P


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/faith46

It's starting to sound like a slave market!


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/CatMcCat

I messed up and put "they" instead of"you".DL corrected it as "Ye". What's up with that? Is that an Irish thing? I've never heard anyone say that except in old-fashioned novels.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/galaxyrocker

Yes. In Hiberno-English, "ye" is the equivalent of "y'all".


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/IPSmith76

This isn't actually Hiberno-English specific. English used to have both multiple forms of the word "you", as many other languages do. "Ye" was one of those archaic forms, which is why one sees it mostly in old works of literature or (often used incorrectly) in works that are trying for an "old-fashioned" feel.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Cheetaiean

just to expand on that it was "thou/thee/thy/thine" for you singular (equivalents pl. you, you, your, yours)


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/CatMcCat

...neither of which I say. Youse maybe, but only when I'm being silly.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/CormacMOB

Ye is munster hiberno-english. Youse or yiz would be Leinster hiberno-english. I'm only half joking.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Bryan.EDU

How should "fhear" be pronounced? The recording seems to say it like "our."


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/sean.mullen

Fh (lenited f) is always silent in Irish, so the word is pronounced just like you would ear.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Codester3

I came here to ask the same question - I hadn’t heard “fhear” pronounced heretofore.

“Don fhear” sounded like “din are” (in American English).

Thanks for the help!!


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/demazema

i believe since it has the h it's the correct pronunciation, but idk, i couldn't recognize it.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/ilmolleggi

Is there really supposed to be a glottal stop between don and fhear? Thought fh just disappeared and then you just had a vowel sounds which why you say m'fhear as if it were m'ear (see in forvo.) So shoudn't it be "donear" with no pause?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/the13thfirefly

It accepted "You pay the man" and said that "You pay for the man" is another translation. In English, those are two very different sentences. One means you are giving money to the man and the other could infer you treating the man to lunch or picking up his tab at the pub. So, how are they both acceptable translations?

A context situation, perhaps?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Lancet

You're right, it depends on context. In Irish, do can mean either to or for.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/fearghall

Should sibh not mean ye


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Bob.Wobble

Heavy political statement.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/MeltingPsychic

I just had "You pay the man" accepted but that seems to be quite a different meaning to the suggested translation of "You pay for the man". Was something accepted that shouldn't have been?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/cmmcfadd

Question: DL is telling me there are two possible meanings "you pay the man" AND "you pay for the man". I feel there is a huge difference between the meanings - can some explain why both meanings are correct? Or explain which meaning is more correct than the other?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Brid-Eilis

"you pay the man" is incorrect.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Mediterranean

Wait, please remind me why fear is lenited here. Because prepositions+articles (do+an=don) make the next word be lenited?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Hopswatch

Preposition + an is most often followed by an eclipsed noun. However, 'do' (and 'de' and 'sa') are exceptions.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Mediterranean

Thanks. So 'do', 'de' and 'sa' make lenitions instead of eclipsis, right? It will be so difficult to remember all this stuff... :(


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/scilling

Yes — do + an = don, de + an = den, and i + an = sa all lenite singular nouns rather than eclipsing them. (Note that nouns beginning with D, S, or T remain unchanged, though.)

EDIT: In the 2016 Caighdeán, either (den and don) or (sa) can also eclipse.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/soupandbread

Just lenite after all prepositions, that's what we do in Ulster, its not wrong and means there's a lot less to remember.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/ruamac

Thanks for that tip! I'm trying to learn Ulster and it's so difficult to get good resources!


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/soupandbread

I should have added all prepositions + article (remembering the DNTLS rule which scilling points out above). With prepositions on their own there are a few exceptions (as always!) Words following 'Le' 'chuig' 'as' and 'ag' remain unchanged.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/CM_WC_JB_GB_PH

In the correction it says ye pay for the man instead of you pay for the man


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Wengusflengus

yes, it's irish English (or Hiberno-English)


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/exeisen

Would be helpful if we could see somewhere what prepositions go with what verbs. Sometimes it's intuitive, but it's not good to assume (eg in German you smell TO something, not of/like)


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/MartinWyser

You find such information in a dictionary. Besides, "Du riechst wie Fisch" (like) or "Du riechst nach Fisch" (after), but not "Du riechst zu Fisch" (to). It does not even make sense to say that it is "smell TO sth" in German - "to" is just the most frequent translation of "zu", but "zu" is wrong here. The prepositions are just different markers for different roles of the part after. To make it clearer: "Ich rieche nach Fisch" and "Ich rieche nach sieben Uhr" - the first "nach" is "like", the second "nach" is "after".


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Wengusflengus

but they did get a point there: you always need to learn which verb takes which prep. because it doesn't necessarily make sense.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/FionaOnDuoL

Good point. I open Potafocal to revise. It offers so many sample sentences that it helps to get the flow of Irish.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/ConnieKetchum

I do not understand the pronunciation for Fhear. I think I hear an (m) but is she running don into fhear and I am hearing "near".


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/sean.mullen

The lenited 'f' (fh) is always silent, so fhear is pronounced like ear (read in Irish, not the English word 'ear').


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Naddiiie

the audio pronounces fhear as 'aar'... that doesn' seem right to me


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/SatharnPHL

fh is silent in Irish, so "aar" is a reasonable representation of the pronunciation of fhear.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Ractorius

How do I determine which form of noun to use in Irish (in this case fear/fhear/bfear)?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/SatharnPHL

The basic rules for when to use Eclipsis and Lenition are laid out in the Tips & Notes for those skills, including which prepositions cause eclipsis and which cause lenition when used with an.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Finnvardr

So am i the only one hearing it as íocaim not íocann? The phrase in the question is different than the one they play here.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/DunkelSibyl

sounds kinda weird D:


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/jsmitten

The final "r" in "fhear" sounds exactly like an American English final r. Is this really how a native speaker would pronounce it?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/silvith

"Ye pay".. really? Is 'ye' an accepted way to address someone?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/alexinIreland

It is a colloquial form of the plural second person pronoun used in Ireland and parts of England, similar to how some Americans use "y'all".


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/FionaOnDuoL

Certainly. I hear it a lot.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Biochem.mclean

How does one pronounce "fhear" I can't wrap my ear around it, so to speak


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/nyanyan52

Irish isn't really similar to Welsh -_-


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/MustaphaFagg

So how do I say "You pay for (on behalf of) a man"? P.S. All y'all might care to know that "y'all" is singular.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/sean.mullen

That is what this sentence means... Someone at the top of this forum already wrote that this means "you pay on behalf of. To pay for something you use "as". You can also use the verb "díol" instead of "íoc":

Díolaim as an mbricfeasta = I pay for the breakfast."

P.S. 'y'all' is plural, never singular.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/SatharnPHL

According to wikipedia "the word is also used with a singular reference, particularly amongst non-Southerners".


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/sean.mullen

As a Southerner, I refuse to accept this, and the references that article cites don't really provide any evidence of the singular usage besides anecdote anyway. It is prima facie evident that 'y'all' is a contraction of 'you-all', 'all' obviously referring to multiple people.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/SatharnPHL

I asked a friend who has family from Virginia, and she said that she interprets their "y'all" as singular, but then said that when they say to her "When are y'all coming to visit?" it's understood to be an open invitation to anyone in her family, even though they are talking to her, and she hasn't lived with any of her siblings for years. But she said that if she does visit, on her own, she will be asked "would y'all like some iced tea?"


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/SatharnPHL

Most of my understanding of "y'all" comes from characters on US TV shows. It has been consistently referred to as a plural form in any Duolingo comment that I remember reading about translating sibh and related prepositional pronouns. This comment was the first time I saw someone suggesting that it has a singular aspect.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/MustaphaFagg

I wasn't clear. This is "you pay on behalf of the man" I was asking for "you pay on behalf of a man". PS I was being facetious about "all y'all" but I've been searching. Apparently well-educated urban Oklahomans, Texan singing cowboys, and black waitresses from Opelika, Alabama use y'all as a singular. And I know I've heard "all y'all".


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/SatharnPHL

"all y'all" doesn't indicate a singular interpretation of "y'all" - in the 1st person you say "all us Duolingo users" not "all me Duolingo users".

The question for your well-educated urban Oklahomans, Texan singing cowboys, and black waitresses from Opelika, Alabama is if they ever use "you", and if so, does it mean something other than "y'all". Are they actually using "y'all" in the singular as a "formal you", used with people that they don't know, as vous is used in French?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/MustaphaFagg

I used the phrase “well-educated urban Oklahomans, Texan singing cowboys, and black waitresses from Opelika, Alabama” because studies have been made which recorded that those people do use y'all as a singular, and/or report to the questioners in the studies that they do so. The question for my well-educated urban Oklahomans, Texan singing cowboys, and black waitresses from Opelika, Alabama is NOT if they ever use "you", and if so, does it mean something other than "y'all". The question is whether or not, when they are using “y'all “, they sometimes use it in the singular. And the answer is “Yes. They have been observed, by academicians more qualified than I, using “y'all” as a singular, and they have self-reported to other academicians that they use “y'all” as a singular. These are observations, and reports from the field. You can go tell Oklahomans, cowboys and black waitresses from Opelika that they are wrong to do it. Let me know how that works out for you. And if you go find the studies (it isn't hard) you will see that the folk who did those studies were well aware of, were interested in, and reported and discussed, the use of “y'all” as a singular in “understood plural” situations, as markers of group identity, to soften a “you” that seemed too direct, etc., etc. But all of that is moot. It was observed and/or reported that the people mentioned used “y'all” as a singular outside of those situations.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/SatharnPHL

It makes no odds to me personally, but if, as you claim, they are using y'all "to soften a “you” that seemed too direct", then they are treating y'all like the French "vous", and it is no longer a useful translation for sibh, precisely because learners like this person end up with the impression that sibh is a "polite you", rather than a "plural you".

I'll know now not to bother including "y'all" in any answers to questions about the difference between and sibh. "You guys" doesn't have quite the same cachet, but at least it's unambiguously plural.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/SquareFrame

How would this sentence sound in Donegal Irish?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/MarcusMacA2

I keep hearing do mear instead of don fhear

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