"Íocann sibh don fhear."

Translation:You pay for the man.

August 26, 2014

81 Comments


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/flint72

Does this mean "you pay on behalf of the man", or "you purchase the man"?

August 26, 2014

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/AnLonDubhBeag

You pay on behalf of. To pay for something you use "as". You can also use the verb "díol" instead of "íoc":

Díolaim as an mbricfeasta = I pay for the breakfast.

August 26, 2014

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Hopswatch

Thanks for clearing that up. Can't be having with teaching programs that contain those sorts of things.

August 31, 2014

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/lemonpiefirefly

Could it be done with "don", though? I just had the previous exercise have me translate "íocann tu' don mhairteoil" and allowed "you pay for the beef". (sorry about the way I had to type the u accent).

December 10, 2014

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/AnLonDubhBeag

Íocann tú don mhairteoil would mean "you pay on behalf of the beef", as in the meat bought something and you paid for it. It's not really a sensible sentence, I'm sure the Duolingo staff will correct it soon.

December 10, 2014

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/ruamac

I think that they put these weird sentences in to make us think outside the box. Otherwise it's easy to just guess at an answer. I know that, when my daughter and I were learning sign language,we would tell each other weird things such as, 'I have a pink dog and a blue giraffe.' Otherwise it would have been too easy to guess that she was saying, 'I have a black dog,' simply because I knew that to be true.

September 20, 2015

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/CaelQuinn

Alt GR and the letter should give you the accented version, on Windows at least :)

March 17, 2015

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/jonathanbost

I have windows and it doesn't work

February 9, 2016

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/CormacMOB

It depends on your keyboard settings. You need to have a use a keyboard layout that has accented vowels. Try changing you keyboard to English (Ireland), en-ie or something like that.

February 10, 2016

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/eileenoconnortoo

Did not know anyone said ye anymore

October 1, 2015

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Wengusflengus

in irish English we do

November 15, 2015

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Huffdogg

I think it's a bit archaic everywhere at this point but it's extremely useful to help define the difference between the singular and plural "you" for translation.

January 31, 2016

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Wengusflengus

I nearly always use it in informal speech and writing :P

February 9, 2016

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/faith46

It's starting to sound like a slave market!

April 4, 2015

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/CatMcCat

I messed up and put "they" instead of"you".DL corrected it as "Ye". What's up with that? Is that an Irish thing? I've never heard anyone say that except in old-fashioned novels.

April 6, 2015

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/galaxyrocker

Yes. In Hiberno-English, "ye" is the equivalent of "y'all".

April 7, 2015

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/IPSmith76

This isn't actually Hiberno-English specific. English used to have both multiple forms of the word "you", as many other languages do. "Ye" was one of those archaic forms, which is why one sees it mostly in old works of literature or (often used incorrectly) in works that are trying for an "old-fashioned" feel.

July 6, 2015

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Cheetaiean

just to expand on that it was "thou/thee/thy/thine" for you singular (equivalents pl. you, you, your, yours)

August 4, 2015

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/CatMcCat

...neither of which I say. Youse maybe, but only when I'm being silly.

April 7, 2015

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/CormacMOB

Ye is munster hiberno-english. Youse or yiz would be Leinster hiberno-english. I'm only half joking.

September 24, 2015

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Bryan.EDU

How should "fhear" be pronounced? The recording seems to say it like "our."

May 3, 2015

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/sean.mullen

Fh (lenited f) is always silent in Irish, so the word is pronounced just like you would ear.

May 18, 2016

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Codester3

I came here to ask the same question - I hadn’t heard “fhear” pronounced heretofore.

“Don fhear” sounded like “din are” (in American English).

Thanks for the help!!

November 11, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/demazema

i believe since it has the h it's the correct pronunciation, but idk, i couldn't recognize it.

May 27, 2015

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/fearghall

Should sibh not mean ye

November 4, 2014

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Bob.Wobble

Heavy political statement.

January 21, 2015

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/ilmolleggi

Is there really supposed to be a glottal stop between don and fhear? Thought fh just disappeared and then you just had a vowel sounds which why you say m'fhear as if it were m'ear (see in forvo.) So shoudn't it be "donear" with no pause?

May 20, 2015

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/scilling

It should.

February 19, 2016

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/the13thfirefly

It accepted "You pay the man" and said that "You pay for the man" is another translation. In English, those are two very different sentences. One means you are giving money to the man and the other could infer you treating the man to lunch or picking up his tab at the pub. So, how are they both acceptable translations?

A context situation, perhaps?

December 15, 2016

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Lancet

You're right, it depends on context. In Irish, do can mean either to or for.

December 15, 2016

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Mediterranean

Wait, please remind me why fear is lenited here. Because prepositions+articles (do+an=don) make the next word be lenited?

December 20, 2014

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Hopswatch

Preposition + an is most often followed by an eclipsed noun. However, 'do' (and 'de' and 'sa') are exceptions.

December 20, 2014

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Mediterranean

Thanks. So 'do', 'de' and 'sa' make lenitions instead of eclipsis, right? It will be so difficult to remember all this stuff... :(

December 21, 2014

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/scilling

Yes — do + an = don, de + an = den, and i + an = sa all lenite singular nouns rather than eclipsing them. (Note that nouns beginning with D, S, or T remain unchanged, though.)

EDIT: In the 2016 Caighdeán, either (den and don) or (sa) can also eclipse.

December 24, 2014

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Mediterranean

Thanks.

December 25, 2014

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/soupandbread

Just lenite after all prepositions, that's what we do in Ulster, its not wrong and means there's a lot less to remember.

January 20, 2015

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/ruamac

Thanks for that tip! I'm trying to learn Ulster and it's so difficult to get good resources!

September 20, 2015

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/soupandbread

I should have added all prepositions + article (remembering the DNTLS rule which scilling points out above). With prepositions on their own there are a few exceptions (as always!) Words following 'Le' 'chuig' 'as' and 'ag' remain unchanged.

September 21, 2015

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/CM_WC_JB_GB_PH

In the correction it says ye pay for the man instead of you pay for the man

March 24, 2015

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Wengusflengus

yes, it's irish English (or Hiberno-English)

November 15, 2015

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/exeisen

Would be helpful if we could see somewhere what prepositions go with what verbs. Sometimes it's intuitive, but it's not good to assume (eg in German you smell TO something, not of/like)

March 28, 2015

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/MartinWyser

You find such information in a dictionary. Besides, "Du riechst wie Fisch" (like) or "Du riechst nach Fisch" (after), but not "Du riechst zu Fisch" (to). It does not even make sense to say that it is "smell TO sth" in German - "to" is just the most frequent translation of "zu", but "zu" is wrong here. The prepositions are just different markers for different roles of the part after. To make it clearer: "Ich rieche nach Fisch" and "Ich rieche nach sieben Uhr" - the first "nach" is "like", the second "nach" is "after".

April 1, 2015

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Wengusflengus

but they did get a point there: you always need to learn which verb takes which prep. because it doesn't necessarily make sense.

February 9, 2016

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/FionaOnDuoL

Good point. I open Potafocal to revise. It offers so many sample sentences that it helps to get the flow of Irish.

August 2, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/HappyEvilSlosh

I just had "You pay the man" accepted but that seems to be quite a different meaning to the suggested translation of "You pay for the man". Was something accepted that shouldn't have been?

April 11, 2015

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/scilling

Yes.

February 19, 2016

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/cmmcfadd

Question: DL is telling me there are two possible meanings "you pay the man" AND "you pay for the man". I feel there is a huge difference between the meanings - can some explain why both meanings are correct? Or explain which meaning is more correct than the other?

July 28, 2016

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Brighid

"you pay the man" is incorrect.

July 29, 2016

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/FirePolyglot

Irish isn't really similar to Welsh -_-

July 24, 2017

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Ractorius

How do I determine which form of noun to use in Irish (in this case fear/fhear/bfear)?

May 24, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/SatharnPHL
Mod
  • 1221

The basic rules for when to use Eclipsis and Lenition are laid out in the Tips & Notes for those skills, including which prepositions cause eclipsis and which cause lenition when used with an.

May 24, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/SquareFrame

How would this sentence sound in Donegal Irish?

June 26, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Finnvardr

So am i the only one hearing it as íocaim not íocann? The phrase in the question is different than the one they play here.

February 20, 2015

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Arjanrhod

sounds kinda weird D:

April 16, 2015

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/jsmitten

The final "r" in "fhear" sounds exactly like an American English final r. Is this really how a native speaker would pronounce it?

May 5, 2016

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/silvith

"Ye pay".. really? Is 'ye' an accepted way to address someone?

June 14, 2016

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/alexinIreland

It is a colloquial form of the plural second person pronoun used in Ireland and parts of England, similar to how some Americans use "y'all".

June 14, 2016

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/FionaOnDuoL

Certainly. I hear it a lot.

August 2, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Biochem.mclean

How does one pronounce "fhear" I can't wrap my ear around it, so to speak

February 15, 2017

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/ConnieKetchum

I do not understand the pronunciation for Fhear. I think I hear an (m) but is she running don into fhear and I am hearing "near".

March 24, 2017

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/sean.mullen

The lenited 'f' (fh) is always silent, so fhear is pronounced like ear (read in Irish, not the English word 'ear').

March 27, 2017

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/hoenink

In Belfast we say "you pay yer man"

July 13, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Naddiiie

the audio pronounces fhear as 'aar'... that doesn' seem right to me

October 12, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/SatharnPHL
Mod
  • 1221

fh is silent in Irish, so "aar" is a reasonable representation of the pronunciation of fhear.

October 12, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Moo28957

About time we had some equality

January 7, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/FionaOnDuoL

He was with ye. He left without paying for his lunch. Sure, we'll pay for the man and he'll pay us back.

August 2, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/MustaphaFagg

So how do I say "You pay for (on behalf of) a man"? P.S. All y'all might care to know that "y'all" is singular.

February 25, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/sean.mullen

That is what this sentence means... Someone at the top of this forum already wrote that this means "you pay on behalf of. To pay for something you use "as". You can also use the verb "díol" instead of "íoc":

Díolaim as an mbricfeasta = I pay for the breakfast."

P.S. 'y'all' is plural, never singular.

March 22, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/SatharnPHL
Mod
  • 1221

According to wikipedia "the word is also used with a singular reference, particularly amongst non-Southerners".

March 23, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/sean.mullen

As a Southerner, I refuse to accept this, and the references that article cites don't really provide any evidence of the singular usage besides anecdote anyway. It is prima facie evident that 'y'all' is a contraction of 'you-all', 'all' obviously referring to multiple people.

March 23, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/SatharnPHL
Mod
  • 1221

I asked a friend who has family from Virginia, and she said that she interprets their "y'all" as singular, but then said that when they say to her "When are y'all coming to visit?" it's understood to be an open invitation to anyone in her family, even though they are talking to her, and she hasn't lived with any of her siblings for years. But she said that if she does visit, on her own, she will be asked "would y'all like some iced tea?"

March 23, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/sean.mullen

Huh, okay! As a linguist, I know I must resist prescriptivism out of integrity, but it's very difficult when people create silly neologisms or extend semantic senses in ridiculous ways, like with singular "y'all." Real Southerners would simply say 'you' or 'ya' for the singular ;-).

March 23, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/SatharnPHL
Mod
  • 1221

Most of my understanding of "y'all" comes from characters on US TV shows. It has been consistently referred to as a plural form in any Duolingo comment that I remember reading about translating sibh and related prepositional pronouns. This comment was the first time I saw someone suggesting that it has a singular aspect.

March 23, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/MustaphaFagg

I wasn't clear. This is "you pay on behalf of the man" I was asking for "you pay on behalf of a man". PS I was being facetious about "all y'all" but I've been searching. Apparently well-educated urban Oklahomans, Texan singing cowboys, and black waitresses from Opelika, Alabama use y'all as a singular. And I know I've heard "all y'all".

March 23, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/SatharnPHL
Mod
  • 1221

"all y'all" doesn't indicate a singular interpretation of "y'all" - in the 1st person you say "all us Duolingo users" not "all me Duolingo users".

The question for your well-educated urban Oklahomans, Texan singing cowboys, and black waitresses from Opelika, Alabama is if they ever use "you", and if so, does it mean something other than "y'all". Are they actually using "y'all" in the singular as a "formal you", used with people that they don't know, as vous is used in French?

March 23, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/MustaphaFagg

I used the phrase “well-educated urban Oklahomans, Texan singing cowboys, and black waitresses from Opelika, Alabama” because studies have been made which recorded that those people do use y'all as a singular, and/or report to the questioners in the studies that they do so. The question for my well-educated urban Oklahomans, Texan singing cowboys, and black waitresses from Opelika, Alabama is NOT if they ever use "you", and if so, does it mean something other than "y'all". The question is whether or not, when they are using “y'all “, they sometimes use it in the singular. And the answer is “Yes. They have been observed, by academicians more qualified than I, using “y'all” as a singular, and they have self-reported to other academicians that they use “y'all” as a singular. These are observations, and reports from the field. You can go tell Oklahomans, cowboys and black waitresses from Opelika that they are wrong to do it. Let me know how that works out for you. And if you go find the studies (it isn't hard) you will see that the folk who did those studies were well aware of, were interested in, and reported and discussed, the use of “y'all” as a singular in “understood plural” situations, as markers of group identity, to soften a “you” that seemed too direct, etc., etc. But all of that is moot. It was observed and/or reported that the people mentioned used “y'all” as a singular outside of those situations.

March 24, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/SatharnPHL
Mod
  • 1221

It makes no odds to me personally, but if, as you claim, they are using y'all "to soften a “you” that seemed too direct", then they are treating y'all like the French "vous", and it is no longer a useful translation for sibh, precisely because learners like this person end up with the impression that sibh is a "polite you", rather than a "plural you".

I'll know now not to bother including "y'all" in any answers to questions about the difference between and sibh. "You guys" doesn't have quite the same cachet, but at least it's unambiguously plural.

March 24, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/FionaOnDuoL

It does seem to me that the researchers may have lacked situational awareness, and that they were being addressed in a formal manner as the people who were paying. It's subtle enough but a different register.

August 2, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/SatharnPHL
Mod
  • 1221

"for a man" would be d'fhear.

(do causes lenition, do becomes d' before a vowel sound, fh is silent, so fhear starts with a "vowel sound").

Here are a couple of examples of "for a man" using do from the NEID. They aren't quite the same meaning of do, but they do illustrate how "for a man" is used:
"he's very fit for a man of his age" - tá sé an-aclaí d'fhear dá aois
"for a man given to sport" - d'fhear atá tugtha don sport, d'fhear atá tógtha leis an sport, d'fhear a bhfuil dúil aige sa sport

March 23, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Sarah983058

Is "don" a combination of "do" (you) and "an" (the)?

September 1, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/SatharnPHL
Mod
  • 1221

Prepositions that end with a vowel combine with articles that start with a vowel, because in speech there is no interruption between the two words. The onvious exception is i which becomes sa.

September 1, 2019
Learn Irish in just 5 minutes a day. For free.