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  5. "Ní thaitním."

" thaitním."

Translation:I do not shine.

August 26, 2014

97 Comments


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Bryan.EDU

Does this mean I literally don't shine or I don't shine in the sense of I don't stick out of the crowd?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/scilling

It’s only the literal meaning.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/becky3086

What IS the literal meaning. "I don't shine--the car?" " I mean I have no idea how this could be used. Why would you ever say "I don't shine" unless shine is a verb?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/scilling

The literal meaning of Ní thaitním is “I do not shine” — i.e. “I do not emit light”. “Shine” in this sentence is a verb.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/PaCa826187

I may rise but I refuse to shine? Nah, probably not.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/cdub4language

Xena reference? That's what came to my mind...


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/BardAaron

I love that episode


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/hpfan5

the shine in a crowd stuff is an English idiomatic usage for shine


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/p8c

bryanedu- that is exactly my question.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/oftkiltered

I've heard in English (appalachian I think) one would "take a shine to" or "take a shining to" something as in "take a liking to"


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/andalula

Although I can't recall many off-hand, I've heard of other North Americanisms that are attributed to Irish immigrants using their words and having them morph into words we use today. I think "shenanigans" might be one. And the Appalachian Mountains are home to many Scotch-Irish....?

I also once heard...somewhere....and forgive me if it was here on Duo... That when Appalachians would say, "I was a'runnin and a'singing" it was because of the Irish ag siúl, pronounced a'shool (not IPA, sorry) for the present participle (English -ing).

I'd really like to think that Gaelige has left its mark on American English, considering our huge diaspora.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/scilling

There are a few possibilities for the origins of “shenanigan” — one of them is (pre-reform) Irish {@style=font-family: 'Bunchlo Arsa GC', 'BunchloArsaGC', serif; font-style: normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 12pt}sionnaċuiġim (“I play tricks”, more literally “I act the fox”). A post-reform spelling for it might be sionnachaím.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/SeanMeaneyPL

Another possibility is the Middle English perfect tense formation. As with modern German, both Middle English and Old English past participles were formed with an initial syllable usually written ge- in German (gekommen) but y- in English (ycomen, ycumen). The old poem "Summer is a-coming in" is originally "Somer is ycumen in" meaning "Summer has come in".


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/scilling

The oldest recorded entry in the OED for “take a shine to” was from 1839; it originated in the US. A certain W. Churchill used it in one of his writings in 1908, so it’s been in use on both sides of the Atlantic for a while now.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/CatMcCat

My mother used to say "He's taken a shine to you", to mean "He likes you." (Montreal Canadian of Irish origin - her family had settled in Sheenboro in the Outaouais region of Quebec, but I don't know what part of Ireland they were from.) It's amazing how many words she used to use that turn out to be of Irish origin, like "gawm" or "gom" for a stupid person ("Don't be such a gom!" It took me ages to find that word anywhere, partly because I wasn't sure how to spell it) , or "puss" for face but not a compliment ("Look at the puss on you!"), or "queer" for "strange" (as in, "He's a queer one!") She also used to call "tea" "tae" sometimes (although I was't sure if it was the Irish "tae" or the French "thé", since she was raised in Montreal.)


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Bartsci

I hear the expression used not infrequently (Belfast)


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/hpfan5

it could be a idiomatic usage of a literal phrase - when you shine old silver it brightens it like new - similar to when you like something new you may become more alive and brightened with happiness


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Kanhir

Never seen this on its own; I've only ever seen "Ni thaitníonn ___ liom" or similar. Learn something new every day!


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/ataltane

You might have heard the typical school phrase tá an ghrian ag taitneamh, though?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/FionaMcGla

"Shine" is a translation for this that I have never heard of! And it didn't accept "like" from me, but like is correct!!


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/ataltane

It's not right. The same word, but a different construction:

Taithníonn sé = 'he shines' Taithníonn sé liom = 'He pleases me', 'I like him' (literally, 'he shines with me')


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/MaryLea11

I am hoping that this verb will be used later on in the course in a more useful and colloquial way. Fingers crossed at any rate.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/FionaOnDuoL

Thank you for this.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/epingchris

So does "Ní" cause lenition of the following verb?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/scilling

It does with most verbs; the exceptions are faigh, where it causes eclipsis in the indicative past, future, and conditional, and abair, where no mutations happen to its forms that begin with the letter D.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/onlycookie

Lenition and eclipsis will bring me into a long-term love-hate relationship between Irish and me :-/ At least I can now see it as a 'trigger' for lenition.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/truthfinder

It accepts "I don't like"


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/scilling

It shouldn’t accept that; it only means “like” when the preposition le accompanies it.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/MaryLea11

I have reported this in your behalf


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Greyman125

Can this be used with an object? For instance, "I don't shine shoes for a living." Or is it always in the sense of "I don't shine because I am not the sun"?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/scilling

No; taitin meaning “shine” is always intransitive. The “polish”, “make shiny by rubbing”, and “create light with” transitive meanings of English “shine” (e.g. shoes, brass, and lantern respectively) are not expressed with taitin ; each of these meanings is expressed differently in Irish.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/soupandbread

'Snas' is the verb for polish. The word for polished or shiny is 'snasta' which, supposedly, is were we get the word snazzy from.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/scilling

The OED gives the US as the origin of “snazzy”, and its earliest written reference is from 1932. Dinneen provided the following definition for snasta :

varnished, glossed, coloured; neat, trimmed, lopped, elegant.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/soupandbread

The story I heard is that 'snasta' made its way to the US via Irish speaking immigrants, probably around the mid 19th century. At some point over the next century it was adopted into US English, complete with snazzy new spelling. Unfortunately I've no evidence for this but it sounds plausable.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Greyman125

Go raibh maith agat.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/CoraOSulli

Can I just say that the Irish school systems teaches Taitneamh as enjoy?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/scilling

Taitneamh is a noun that can mean “enjoyment”; it’s not a verb that can mean “enjoy”.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/dilly_dallyer

Yes, and this sentence accepts "I do not enjoy" as a correct answer, although it shouldn't without the "liom" construction.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/MeghanMcGill

I feel like the pronunciation is a tiny bit off. It's ní thaitním, so it would be pronounced 'nee hat-neem' because there isn't a 'h' after the second 't'. I could be wrong, but as an Irish person it doesn't sound right to me.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/JamesRichardson2

So, is 'th' always pronounced as an 'h'? And the recording certainly doesn't seem to pronounce the second 't'. The whole word seems to be being pronounced 'haneem'.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Knocksedan

When a consonant is lenited, the pronunciation changes. When "t" is lenited, it is pronounced "h".

In this case, the second "t" in taitním is typically pronounced as if it was "th" in Munster and Connacht Irish. You can hear some of the regional variations in the examples of taitneamh on teanglann.ie.

Most children will learn to say these words long before they learn to read or write them, and this is just an example where the typical spoken pronunciation doesn't quite match the written spelling.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/JamesRichardson2

Ah, OK, I see, thanks. The Duolingo audio's good, but sometimes an explanation of how something's pronounced, and why it's pronounced that way, helps a lot. Otherwise, I wonder whether the audio is incorrect, or whether there's some subtle part of the pronunciation I'm not hearing. I've bookmarked teanglann.ie too, as it looks quite useful.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/zzxj

Is there a difference between broad and slender th/sh?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Knocksedan

In general, a lenited t and s will be pronounced as "h", but if you assign the "glide" in a slender cluster to the consonant rather than the vowel, then obviously broad and slender are different.

For example, you can tell the difference between a shaol and a sheoladh.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Ryan329698

I tend to call everyone i know "sunshine". So, im curious if the word "thaitním" can merely be combined with the Irish word for "sun" (which i dont know yet)? All i want to be able to do is call people "sunshine" in Irish... lol.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/SatharnPHL

I don't know where you're from, but in Ireland, "sunshine" as form of address is often pejorative or dismissive, and therefore the only example of "sunshine" as a term of address in the NEID is:
"hop it, sunshine!" - imigh leat, a bhuachaill!; gread leat, a mhaicín!; bain as, a stócaigh!; bailigh leat, a mhic ó!.

The older EID suggests that soilbhreas might be applied to a person, but it doesn't provide an example showing how it would be modified in the vocative, which you would need.

As there isn't an actual noun that means "sunshine" (the genitive phrase taitneamh na gréine is used instead), trying to use "sunshine" the way you want might be considered béarlachas.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/ArekS16

Ní thaithním- labhreann an bróg. Yep it probably doesn't make sense and for certain doesn't correspond to what I've had in my mind but after a couple of weeks learning Irish it's the only grammatical sentence that popped out in my head.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Timmo

anyone know if it is the "Ní" that is causing the lention?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/SatharnPHL

The negative verbal particle lenites the negated verb.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/JCofNG

In the context of the exercises so far, couldn't this be translated simply as, "I do not enjoy"? So far, I have only seen it used idiomatically to sate that something does or does not 'shine' with someone, indicating that they do or don't enjoy something.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/SatharnPHL

No, it could not. The verb taitin means "shine", unless it is used with le, when it means "please" - ní thaitníonn an leabhair seo liom - "this book does not please me" (I don't like this book).

This is not an idiomatic usage in Irish - the coincidence of a vaguely similar English idiom is probably unhelpful in the long run.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Daniel28450

It's a bit confusing, that in positive form it is '-nn sé liom', so to implify me, I have to use the liom. But if it's the negative meaning, it's '-ím'.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/SatharnPHL

That's not the case.

Taitním - "I shine"
Ní thaitním - "I do not shine"

Taitníonn sé liom - "I enjoy it"/"It pleases me"
Ní taitníonn sé liom - "I don't enjoy it"/"It doesn't please me"

When used with the preposition le, the verb taitin takes on a different meaning.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Daniel28450

Oh, so that's the case. Thanks a lot for the explanation.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/cosmicstresshead

Sorry if this question has been answered, but i havent seen it:

If taithíonn sé liom is literally "he shines with me", and is taken to mean "I like him", then could taithíonn sé simply mean "he isn't liked" or "nobody likes him"?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/SatharnPHL

taithíonn sé liom isn't literally "he shines with me" - that's just a lazy equivalence that people make when they don't want to acknowledge that the preposition le changes the meaning of the verb taitin.

Without le, taitin just means "shine", and taitníonn sé just means "it shines".


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Sean_Redbeard

Le do thoil, someone give me the pronunciation for 'taitnim' . I can't find it. Go raibh maith agat!


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/idiotboy744997

Don't ever let anybody tell you you don't shine, because you do, as bright as the brightest star in all of the galaxies.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Lorraine986919

This is ridiculous. It actually means " I don't like/enjoy" . If I hadn't already an understanding of Irish I'd be very confused by this lesson


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/SatharnPHL

Your understandng of Irish needs some additional work if you think that Ní thaitním means "I don't like".

The verb taitin](https://www.teanglann.ie/ga/fgb/taitin) means "shine", in the way that the sun shines (it is used almost exclusively about the sun, so this exercise is more theoretical than practical).

When used with the preposition le, taitníonn (rud) le (duine), where rud is the subject of the verb taitin, means "(a thing) pleases (a person)", which is often translated as "a person likes/enjoys (a thing) . Note that the subject of the verb in Irish is the thing that is liked, not the person doing the liking.

Taitníonn sé liom means "It pleases me", or, if you prefer, "I enjoy/like it". Táim ag baint taitneamh as an gcomhluadar mean "I'm deriving enjoyment the company", or, if you prefer, "I'm enjoying the company".

But taitním is never "I enjoy".


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/hpfan5

what about the English verb that means scrubbing/rubbing something like a car that produces a shine/glossy finish? - shining? Or is this only about liking someone, taking a shining to someone - a pleasant feeling towards someone?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/scilling

See my first reply to Greyman125 and my reply to truthfinder above for answers to your questions.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Jewgoslav

Please, what is the infinitive form of this word? I've been looking for ages but cannot find it.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/scilling

Irish doesn’t have infinitives. The second-person singular imperative conjugation (in this case, taitin) is typically used as a verb’s dictionary headword.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/hpfan5

this does lead to some confusion for new learners...


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Jewgoslav

Go raibh maith agat.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/RayWhitford

I don't think this verb is necessary at the stage when learning the basics of a language. Maybe a verb we use regularly would would be more beneficial. When was the last time you said I do not shine in your language?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/becky3086

I have looked through all these and still do not understand what it means to "shine" in these sentences. I don't understand how a person can "shine". To me the only way a person can "shine" is to make something else shine (as in shoes) but I did already see that that is wrong. I can see how the sun can shine but I don't understand how a person can..


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/scilling

Taitin simply means “shine” in the sense of “emit light”, so Ní thaitním means “I don’t shine” = “I don’t emit light”. Thus, Taitním would mean “I shine” = “I emit light”; if it would be easier to comprehend, think of some extraterrestrial person who‘s capable of emitting light saying it rather than a human saying it.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/tu.8zPhLD72zzoZN

Have you heard the song "Let it shine!", but I don't know if that is what they could mean. "This little heart of mine, I'm going to let it shine..."


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/DanSheppar1

Maybe if you work at a nuke plant. It does seem a bit useless. Maybe it's here because of the +le form but everyone here is saying that that should be thought of as independent. It shines might be more useful, but maybe that has some hidden complexity that we've not been exposed to yet?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Bartsci

'ní thaitnim nar thaiteann tú'


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Barytonal

I wonder what the actual point of this sentence is. Clearly it's useless on its own (unless you are having a conversation about shining) so is Duolingo trying to make some grammatical point? Such as it not meaning "I do not like it"?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/scilling

Judging from many of the comments in this discussion, that grammatical point has not yet been thoroughly learned.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/audreylee123

Does this mean " I do not shine." As in " I do not stand out." Or as in " I am dirty." ?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/SatharnPHL

The verb taitin is not normally used this way, so this exercise is more theoretical than practical. The "shine" involved is what the sun does - taitníonn an ghrian.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Ballinamore

This is a ridiculous translation. It simply means 'I do not like'


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/SatharnPHL

No, it doesn't mean "I don't like".

The verb taitin means "shine". When used with le, it can mean "(to) please".

Taitníonn X le Y means "X pleases Y" or "Y likes X". But the subject of the verb is X, the thing that is liked, not Y, the person doing the liking.

If you are asked An dtaitníonn brocailí leat?, Ní thaitním isn't a grammatically correct answer, because the implied in thaitním isn't the subject in the question. To reply "I don't like broccoli", you have to say Ní thaitníonn brocailí liom, or just Ní thaitníonn.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/gpgallagher

So this means nothing? Is that correct?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/scilling

No; it literally means “I don’t shine”.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/PaCa826187

You have a lot of patience for those lacking imagination on here... :)


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/fazulakis

While I really appreciate the excellent job done by the contributors, the Irish language Duolingo forums are plagued by silly questions, people not reading previous answers, etc. :(

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